Giving in and Reverting to Marlin/Ramps?

pro3d

I am the designer of the V-King 3d printer and at this point I am giving up on the Duet/RepRap controller/firmware for now

My prints are coming out worse than ever and even running ramps1,4 on 12v and drv8825s - gave me much better results

Of course this is an user mistake (MINE) but as a builder/designer and printer service provider I dont have more time to try to get this thing print decently. It is just to sensitive to everything

I did start in the wrong end thinking everything was straight forward and used the configurator which I think was a mistake for a custom corexy printer and left me off wondering about a lot of stuff that was off

I did not follow all the steps as closely as I should have as there is much more configuration needed than I thought running the config tool witch actually made things worse than if I started from scratch learning all the steps. Now I have like working backwards to troubleshoot everything one at the time

I find searching for answers a big time thieve and I dont want to ask obvious repeating questions all over again in the forum to everyone's frustration

I also dont have all original hardware on the machine witch of course does everything somewhat sketchy. Thing is it all worked flawlessly on the Marlin/Ramps setup (Mks Gen 1,4 - drv8825) with impressive results on all kind of materials

Guess this things sensitivity also means it need all high quality components and that is fair

I have stuff to print and just spent to much time tweaking already so I am putting this thing on the shelf until I get a free machine and some time to try this from scratch

Thanks for letting me blow of som steam...

/Roy

T3P3Tony

@pro3d Roy, sorry you have found the process so frustrating. There is quite a difference between RepRapFirmware on Duet Vs Marlin and RAMPS and of course it takes time to get used to the difference. It is certainly possible to get very good results on a corexy. I am not an expert on corexy but there are corexy experts here like @deckingman and @kraegar.

Do not feel you can't ask questions please. That's the point of the forums! One thing, if you hardware is working well with Marlin and RAMPS then you know it's just a settings issue on Duet and RepRapFirmware so when you are ready to give it another go we can help translate the marlin settings across.

wilriker

I also have no experience with CoreXY otherwise I would do the following myself but I guess there would be someone here on this forum that would be willing to "translate" your working Marlin Configuration.h and Configuration_adv.h into a corresponding RRF config.g. Only other thing that would be required would be motor specs.

Mike

There are a lot of us on the forum running CoreXY machines on Duet controllers. On my D-bot I only used the config tool for basic configuration and just transferred everything else by hand from Marlin configuration files. Some things will require re-adjusting, like probe offsets and the like. Personally I find all the trouble is definitely worth it - I don't have to recompile the firmware each time I change a setting, my machine can actually utilize higher currents and speeds afforded by better electronics and once you get used to loading files through a web interface it really hard to go back to a tethered RAMPS setup. Not to mention that 24V and 0.9 degree steppers are barely possible on one.

There's really no shame in asking questions. Those forums were of massive help when I was banging my head in frustration at my machine going haywire for no apparent reason.

JoergS5

Could you please tell us what is terrible with your prints? Wrong dimensions, warping, ... Is it the printbed problem of the other thread?

If you setup your stepper motion and extruder motion the same as for the ramps, the print should be similar in my understanding, if you didn't change the hardware.

deckingman

I'd be glad to help if I can but I need a bit more to go on than the fact that prints are coming out worse than ramps. I can let you have all my configuration files but as mine is a CoreXYUV (for homing) and has five extruders, it might be a bit complex and lead to further confusion. I'd be willing to take a bash at converting whatever the ramps config files are though.

One statement that's just plain wrong is this

"Guess this things sensitivity also means it need all high quality components and that is fair".

Quite the opposite in fact as Duet firmware has the ability to compensate for all sorts of mechanical defects, and just about everything is configurable, but of course that does lead to extra complexity.

pro3d

The bed is fine

The extrusion is uneven and inconsistent
The BL-Touch has been a hassle and still is non consistent in its behavior
Layer adhesion problems
Problems with using my 12V fans (as I do need for the blower!)
The layerlines are very prominent
PID tuning problem - Warning??
Thermistor issues - Beta value?? Do we really need to calibrate this as well?
G29 S2/M561 Not clearing mesh? What is the difference and why do we have two options in the GUI??

I think it goes on but this is what comes to mind

Phaedrux

That's a really great looking printer build. I'd love to see it running well on the Duet. If you change your mind and want to take another crack at it from a fresh start let me know. Answering questions on here is more of a hobby than a frustration.

JoergS5

I wait for the answer of the expert, but for BLTouch: I ordered one for me now, so here are my help links I found yesterday in preparing:

https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Connecting_a_Z_probe
Mode 9

Tutorials:
https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/452/bltouch-working
https://betrue3d.dk/bltouch-on-duet-wifi-duetreprapfirmware/
https://betrue3d.dk/bltouch-on-duet-wifi-configuratio-and-usage/

brunofporto

I migrate from Marlin/Ramps to Duet and it was not easy. But the potential of macros and fully gcode based configuration is so vast that I can not even think of rolling back

There was a lot of things, like unload and load a new filament, that I find it very difficult to implement with Marlin and now it is just a very clever macro that even asks me to confirm the insertion of a the new filament. My printer is so silent (of course you can achieve that with better drivers with the Ramps) that sometimes I tough that there was some issue.

Also the electronics and wiring does not look like a bad neighborhood in the Blade Runner universe like it was with my Ramps.

So... Finish your design and polish it. When you have time get the Duet again with more time to tweak it. When you get used o the configuration/macros things it will even feel (and be) much that recompile and rewrite your firmware every time you change something.

DjDemonD

Its a shame someone can't help you iron out the issues, my corexy when I swapped to duet just worked better than ever. True it was my second board and I had a handle on it at that stage, but if we look at your points in detail:

The extrusion is uneven and inconsistent
What microstepping are you using and what extruder? What motor current (is it 75%-80% of the motor's rated current?)

The BL-Touch has been a hassle and still is non consistent in its behavior
That's BLtouch for you, but I have managed to run one for testing purposes from duetwifi without any apparent problems.

Layer adhesion problems
That has nothing to do with the firmware, unless you are under-extruding or the nozzle isn't staying the correct height above the bed - probably related to bltouch issue.

Problems with using my 12V fans (as I do need for the blower!)
I presume you are running the duet on 24v, fans and different voltages are a challenge and the range of 24v fans is much more limited. I was using 5v fans until it killed 2 duets and 2 paneldues from a wiring short - won't make that mistake again. Get a few buck converter modules, there are detailed instructions to use them to get 12v PWM's fans from 24v supply.

The layerlines are very prominent
Got me on that one... could be a million reasons.

PID tuning problem - Warning??
What warning?

Thermistor issues - Beta value?? Do we really need to calibrate this as well?
Well no, I'd dump thermistors and go to PT1000s absolutely the easiest way to measure temperatures, just plug them in, add the correct line in config.g and you get known, predictable, (near) linear response to temperature changes.
I have calibrated thermistors using k-type thermocouples and measured resistance at known temperatures then used online calculators to get the beta value - but PT1000's are the way forward.

G29 S2/M561 Not clearing mesh? What is the difference and why do we have two options in the GUI??

I run this macro to do a mesh:
M561 ;disable compensation
G1 X135 Y97 Z5 F2000 ;move to bed centre
G30 ;set Z=0 level
G1 Z5 ;lift nozzle
G29 ;grid compensation
G1 X140 Y100 Z50 F2000 ;centre head

Then load it in config.g with
G29 S1.

I suspect any mesh issue you have relates to the BLtouch - have you considered a slightly more accurate probe?

If I had more time on my hands and you were not too far from me I'd come and help you iron it out and take a look at your printer which looks very interesting.

pro3d

Seems like a worms-nest...

Well thanks for trying to help out. I guess I want something more plug and play like Marlin does for me an it is easy to configure without all kinds of special equipment and macros or what ever

I would never be able to support my customers in RRF configurations as it is now and with Marlin it would be easy

I just want something simple that works with the equipment and components I have and are used to

It sounds like I need more expensive equipment and what not to get this right and use a lot of time tuning it when I just want to print good prototypes as I do with the old setup and same components

You say the BL Touch is not good enough? Then this must be related to the Duet/RRF as it works as a charm in other configurations

Then I need a PT100 board? Well here we go - adding more stuff I dont have and ever needed printing from from PLA to Polycarbonate and up to 275c no problem

Sorry I just want something that works on the printers I am building and supplying to others as well

I guess in this time next year I might have changed my mind but the thing is that the flexibility of the firmware seems to be the bottleneck in my mind

Just wonder what all the fuzz was about and still dont get it except it is very quiet...!

JoergS5

I would say some of problems are due to the extruder (layer lines, extruding uneven, layer adhesion). So I would test and calibrate it first, then Z-leveling with BLTouch.

I changed to 24V also and bought 24V fans to avoid the dangers of wrong wiring, it costs only a few bucks. But there are forum threads for wiring 12 or 5 V here also.

One about 12 V fan:
https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/1571/steppers-on-24v-and-both-permanent-fans-and-pwm-fans-on-12v

JoergS5

@pro3d You can connect PT1000 or thermistor directly, only for PT100 or thermocouple you need additional boards.

JoergS5

@pro3d I hope BLTouch is good because I bought it Presicision is 0.01 mm, this should be enough precision. I bought it because it works with all print bed types, glass or anything else.

pro3d

@joergs5 It used to be good before I converted to Duet. Now it seems like a bad probe...

I guess I just had to high expectations for this board and did not anticipate these problems I have run into and all the macro world I dont really like

pro3d

@djdemond How do I attach a PT1000 to the heater block? Or do I need another heatblock? seems like they are 4mm?

Dino

@pro3d if you're using an e3d hotend @DjDemonD sells the pt1000s on his web store.

https://www.precisionpiezo.co.uk/product-page/pt1000-sensor

pro3d

I also experience whining. I read about this on the trinamic 21xx but is this the same thing? They whine a lot I think. 24v 1200 mA

pro3d

One more thing I miss about this setup some camera solution. Seems like we need the rpi anyway or some wifi cam.

Or what do people do for camera?

Phaedrux

@pro3d said in Giving in and Reverting to Marlin/Ramps?:

One more thing I miss about this setup some camera solution. Seems like we need the rpi anyway or some wifi cam.

Or what do people do for camera?

I use a PiZeroW with camera module running MotionOS as an IP Cam. It works well for viewing, but no time lapse function.

There is currently no solution as easy as that provided by Octoprint.

T3P3Tony

@pro3d at certain microstep/current settings the Trinamic drivers have an audible whine when standing still (I have only experienced this when they are holding a position, not while moving). This is not unique to the Duet, but a "feature" of the drivers, however because we have SPI control of the drivers we have idle current reduction and standstill current reduction that drops the current by a configurable % when the stepper is stood still or moving very slowly. See:

https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M906_Set_motor_currents
(the I parameter)

This is the percentage of normal that the motor currents should be reduced to when the printer becomes idle but the motors have not been switched off. The default value is 30% and always be at least 100mA.

https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M917_Set_motor_standstill_current_reduction

This command sets the percentage of the current set by M906 that is to be used when the motor is stationary but not idle, or moving very slowly.

pro3d

@t3p3tony thanks. This is while moving for sure so maybe some other setting

T3P3Tony

@pro3d Odd, all reports we have are that with the TMC 2660s the steppers are significantly quieter while actually moving. are you using interpolation to 256 microstepping? Something like

M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1

The interpolation is set by the "I1" but it only applies at 16 microstepping.

pro3d

@t3p3tony
Yes it seems so

Drives
M569 P0 S1 ; Drive 0 goes forwards
M569 P1 S1 ; Drive 1 goes forwards
M569 P2 S1 ; Drive 2 goes forwards
M569 P3 S0 ; Drive 3 goes back
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 X80 Y80 Z3200 E470 ; Set steps per mm
M566 X900 Y900 Z12 E300 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X9000 Y9000 Z360 E1500 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X1500 Y1500 Z250 E750 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X1300 Y1300 Z1200 E1200 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout