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    Repetitive layer defects

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    • Denis
      Denis last edited by

      I see strange layers in my delta (Tevo LM). On the left photo with 1.8 engines on the right with 0.9 engines. In an attempt to correct the situation, I changed the power supply, the motors, the wires to the motors and the extruder, changed the extruder from titan to bmg, changed the currents and jerks, acceleration, changed the heater, thermistor and nozzle, printed on a cold table, PID the table and nozzle. Backlash in the effector and rods minimal and selected rubber bands, changed the belt tension. I still have questions for the firmware, because in one of the release candidates there were problems with the layers. I updated it to the full version, but maybe I updated it incorrectly? Also rolled back to version 1.19 but maybe wrong too? My bltouch works on channel 9 with firmware 1.19, although it should not be in the documentation ( I noticed it later, after downgrade). There are ideas that I can still try? And please separately describe the procedure for rolling back to earlier versions.
      P.S. A model with 0.9 motors stopped printing due to an unknown cause, winding a bundle of molten plastic. Congestion was not. What is it, wrong height calculation?
      0_1551732957808_photo_2019-03-04_23-55-17.jpg

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      • Denis
        Denis last edited by

        nobody wants to react .. it's sad. On the resource, I see a bunch of files other than the firmware file. What should I do with them? 0_1551773226610_2019-03-05_11-05-51.png

        deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Denis
          Denis last edited by

          How can I go back to the factory default firmware, is there such a function? This is the most confusing instructions for installing the firmware, which I have seen in my life. I do not want to update, I want to erase everything and reinstall it. What should I do?

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          • DocTrucker
            DocTrucker last edited by

            You often have to wait more than overnight (on a Monday too) for the right person to come on the forum and read the messages. By all means poke the message but comments like 'it's sad' will just wind people up.

            Part on the right looks over stuffed. Tried reducing extrusion multiplier?

            Strip everything off the carridges and make sure they move smoothly with no significant play.

            I'm not a delta person. On my machines that'd be referred to a z wobble.

            Alive: 1 Ormerodish machines. 1 Custom Cantilever. 3 P3Steel. 1 Ciclopish scanner. In build: 1 P3Steel. Controllers: 2 Duet 2 , 2 D0.6, 1 D0.8.5, 1 D3 v0.5, 1 RAMPS/DRV8825, 1 Uno/Scan Card.

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            • DocTrucker
              DocTrucker last edited by

              What duet are you running?

              Upgrade to the latest 2+ firmware version. If your issue was firmware based that would have been picked up on by now, particually as the lead developer's main machine is a delta.

              Alive: 1 Ormerodish machines. 1 Custom Cantilever. 3 P3Steel. 1 Ciclopish scanner. In build: 1 P3Steel. Controllers: 2 Duet 2 , 2 D0.6, 1 D0.8.5, 1 D3 v0.5, 1 RAMPS/DRV8825, 1 Uno/Scan Card.

              Denis 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Denis
                Denis @DocTrucker last edited by

                @doctrucker On right? I would say that there are problems with extrusion on the left, but the whole point is that the difference in prints is only in the motors) And I use the Wifi duet, with the latest firmware 2.02. I regret that I may annoy with my regrets, but I have been at war with the duet and printer for several weeks now.

                DocTrucker 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • deckingman
                  deckingman @Denis last edited by

                  @denis

                  Read this https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/5909/guide-for-posting-requests-for-help

                  Ian
                  https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                  https://www.youtube.com/c/deckingman/

                  Denis 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • DocTrucker
                    DocTrucker @Denis last edited by

                    @denis You mentioned 1.19, that's why I encouraged the use of the latest firmware.

                    I can only see the upper surface of the part on the right, that's what made me think that one was over extruded, and perhaps burnt on the top surface.

                    I don't think you are struggling with the Duet, it appears more general issues.

                    Swapping from 1.8 to 0.9 degree steppers appears to have reduced the severity of the problem. I think something is loose, or too flexible. The 1.8 steppers are likely to vibrate more strongly than the 0.9 and excite potential resonances in the frame or components.

                    Thoroughly check your mechanics, check belts, check the joints at the end of the effector rods, check temperature, check e-steps, check extrusion multiplier.

                    Alive: 1 Ormerodish machines. 1 Custom Cantilever. 3 P3Steel. 1 Ciclopish scanner. In build: 1 P3Steel. Controllers: 2 Duet 2 , 2 D0.6, 1 D0.8.5, 1 D3 v0.5, 1 RAMPS/DRV8825, 1 Uno/Scan Card.

                    Denis 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Denis
                      Denis @deckingman last edited by

                      @deckingman At the moment I rolled back to this configuration

                      Firmware Name: RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi / Ethernet
                      Firmware Electronics: Duet WiFi 1.02 or later
                      Firmware Version: 2.0 (RTOS) (2018-06-05b3)
                      WiFi Server Version: 1.21
                      Web Interface Version: 1.22.61_1551779528546_config.g 0_1551779528545_config-override.g

                      The model file is made in Cura, 3.6 using relative extrusion.
                      Motors on axes 42BYGHM810 0.9 degrees, 2.4A, phase resistance 2.1, inductance 4.2
                      extruder motor 0.9, 1.33A, phase resistance 0.8, inductance 1,8

                      Phaedrux 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • Denis
                        Denis @DocTrucker last edited by

                        @doctrucker The resonances should depend on the speed, but the speed has no effect on the bands. As for the mechanics, everything is rechecked many times

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                        • DocTrucker
                          DocTrucker last edited by

                          Second hit on a google search indicates this problem can exist on Tevo Little Monsters running OEM boards.

                          https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=Tevo+LM+wobble&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

                          Alive: 1 Ormerodish machines. 1 Custom Cantilever. 3 P3Steel. 1 Ciclopish scanner. In build: 1 P3Steel. Controllers: 2 Duet 2 , 2 D0.6, 1 D0.8.5, 1 D3 v0.5, 1 RAMPS/DRV8825, 1 Uno/Scan Card.

                          Denis 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • Denis
                            Denis @DocTrucker last edited by

                            @doctrucker I opened this link. There is a problem with delamination abs. This is not my case.

                            DocTrucker 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • DocTrucker
                              DocTrucker @Denis last edited by

                              @denis There is, but that is not the only problem there is also a z-wobble like issue. Short of pictures with scales the wobble looks a very similar wavelength to what you have pictured.

                              Alive: 1 Ormerodish machines. 1 Custom Cantilever. 3 P3Steel. 1 Ciclopish scanner. In build: 1 P3Steel. Controllers: 2 Duet 2 , 2 D0.6, 1 D0.8.5, 1 D3 v0.5, 1 RAMPS/DRV8825, 1 Uno/Scan Card.

                              Denis 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Denis
                                Denis @DocTrucker last edited by

                                @doctrucker I would like to hear some reasonable thoughts, instead of an answer, that this is a problem of such printers. You can write shit happens, it will be just as useful

                                Edgars Batna DocTrucker 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Edgars Batna
                                  Edgars Batna @Denis last edited by

                                  @denis Have you tried setting extrusion width to 75% of nozzle width? I've got a completely different printer, but I'm investigating a very similar issue. The image is sort-of potato-vision...

                                  Denis 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • DocTrucker
                                    DocTrucker @Denis last edited by

                                    @denis said in Repetitive layer defects:

                                    @doctrucker I would like to hear some reasonable thoughts, instead of an answer, that this is a problem of such printers. You can write shit happens, it will be just as useful

                                    Your response makes little sense, and I've no time to waste freely with tone like that. I wish you luck fixing your problem. Good bye.

                                    Alive: 1 Ormerodish machines. 1 Custom Cantilever. 3 P3Steel. 1 Ciclopish scanner. In build: 1 P3Steel. Controllers: 2 Duet 2 , 2 D0.6, 1 D0.8.5, 1 D3 v0.5, 1 RAMPS/DRV8825, 1 Uno/Scan Card.

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                                    • Denis
                                      Denis @Edgars Batna last edited by

                                      @edgars-batna Yes, and I see a change. Now I will try the leading pulleys made of polyurethane (Perhaps Chinese iron curves in places. suddenly help?)) and then publish a photo with reduced extrusion. Down to 85 percent. There is something to think about. In addition, in the spiral mode in one layer, the wall is ideal.

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                                      • Denis
                                        Denis @Edgars Batna last edited by

                                        @edgars-batna It was a good idea. I see the problem in extrusion. Strange, because I calibrated it. It seemed to me that the calibration procedure should not be questioned. However, all I can say is that the problem exists, and I can only reduce the extrusion in order to get a quality print. This may be the uncoordinated steps of the engines of extruders and axial engines, but let the developers explore this. It is a pity that I changed the printer to the delta after buying a duet and lost several months of time)) I thought I was struggling with the wobble, but it turned out that it wasn’t. 0_1552180839782_photo_2019-03-10_04-04-56.jpg

                                        Edgars Batna 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Edgars Batna
                                          Edgars Batna @Denis last edited by

                                          @denis It is practically the same what I observe on my printer, even though it is a completely different build.

                                          Though, what I meant is not the overall extrusion multiplier, but rather extrusion width in slicer settings. So, for 0.4 nozzle set it to 0.3 for perimeters.

                                          The amount of material will still be as you calibrated it, but the perimeters will be significantly finer. It reduced most of the ripples for me.

                                          Denis 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Denis
                                            Denis @Edgars Batna last edited by

                                            @edgars-batna Now I use a 0.3 nozzle, but the general idea is clear to me. This is really strange, because these defects began after I changed the marlin to a duet for HBot and were aggravated during the transition to the delta. After the adjustment, I get excellent prints, so I don’t scold the duo in any way, but I urge the developers to check the algorithms again.

                                            Edgars Batna 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • Edgars Batna
                                              Edgars Batna @Denis last edited by Edgars Batna

                                              @denis Yes, I had exactly the same thoughts and couldn't figure it out either. One observation that I've made is that there have been threads with printers that use linear axes that encounter similar Z ripples, so one would think it's not mechanical, but wait...

                                              My current theory is that the E3D-type nozzles with a flat area around the nozzle hole is what's causing it. There's a snowball effect where the nozzle rides on top of the previously extruded perimeter, thus it is pushed upwards slightly. Just 25% of layer height and there you go - it will start snowballing and oscillating, since at high enough pressure the filament will get pushed down and then it starts over. Basically, as soon the nozzle can be pushed upwards by a fraction of layer height, the problem starts. We're already in fractions of a millmeter; these tolerances are hard to achieve at home.

                                              Well, this is a theory. To prove it one would need to take a nozzle and sand it down like this:

                                              0_1552213806526_b2affd40-e7c9-4f16-84c1-658141265d44-grafik.png

                                              But I haven't tried it yet. Sounds EZ... but, it might destroy lines where extrusion is larger than the nozzle...

                                              Denis 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • Denis
                                                Denis @Edgars Batna last edited by

                                                @edgars-batna Well, I am glad that this situation can be influenced and we know how.

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                                                • Denis
                                                  Denis last edited by

                                                  Unfortunately, the reduction in extrusion only masks the problem, but does not solve it. Lines are still visible. It seems to me on different sizes they appear with a different period. What else can you pay attention to? Any advice.
                                                  0_1552656121172_photo_2019-03-15_16-15-28.jpg

                                                  Edgars Batna 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                  • Edgars Batna
                                                    Edgars Batna @Denis last edited by Edgars Batna

                                                    @denis Astounding, but indeed, you get the same behavior as on my completely different printer (Hevo CoreXY)... I suppose the common denominator is some aspect of the hotend. How much play can you observe on the nozzle when it's cold by hand? Just try it by hand; it should be reasonably stiff for pulling or pushing the filament, plus pressure inside the Bowden tube, if any.

                                                    My hands are itching to try my nozzle-destroying theory, but I don't want to disassemble the hotend yet again and I don't have a 0.4 Volcano nozzle to play with just yet.

                                                    Also, what slicer do you use? I use Slic3r PE.

                                                    So far I observed that cooling affects this. Less cooling means the top layer is soft enough to not lift the nozzle. Can you try printing same piece with significantly less cooling and significantly higher speed?

                                                    Denis 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • Denis
                                                      Denis @Edgars Batna last edited by Denis

                                                      @edgars-batna This is ABS and it was printed without cooling. I can include about 10 percent, but this will not affect the review picture. Waiting for PT100 and fisheye for further experiments. I used Simplify3D and Сura, hotend fixed well

                                                      Edgars Batna 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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