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Head temperature 500 ° not reached

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  • undefined
    saymtech
    last edited by 31 Jan 2020, 14:22

    Hello,

    On a Duet2 powered by 24V (600W), with 40 W E3D heaters, PT100 and PT100 daughterboard.

    I can't reach 500°C, at 370°C the temperature stagnates.

    And if i run autotune with M303 H1 S500, it failed with an error "Auto tune cancelled because target temperature was not reached"

    I think i have enough power, could you help me please ?

    Michael

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 31 Jan 2020, 14:40 Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      deckingman @saymtech
      last edited by deckingman 31 Jan 2020, 14:40

      @saymtech Use a higher wattage heater

      PS. Out of curiosity, what material are you planning on printing that needs 500 deg C?

      Ian
      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
      https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        saymtech
        last edited by 3 Feb 2020, 08:58

        @deckingman
        Thanks for your reply.

        I don't know, it's for a client. But we have already managed to go up to 500 ° c with 40 watts, on a marlin motherboard.

        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 3 Feb 2020, 13:38 Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          dc42 administrators
          last edited by dc42 2 Mar 2020, 10:39 3 Feb 2020, 10:38

          I would not expect to be able to reach 500C using a 40 watt heater unless you have a silicone sock or other thermal insulation over the heater block - but a silicone sock is not rated to 500C.

          Perhaps your Marlin motherboard wasn't reporting high temperatures accurately?

          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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          • undefined
            dgrat
            last edited by dgrat 2 Mar 2020, 12:51 3 Feb 2020, 12:50

            I think that E3D does not support 500 degree for their standard cartridges.
            There are problems:

            • Aluminium gets soft
            • Thermal expansion
            • Material degradation

            I feel, >300 degree is the point where stuff becomes quiet dangerous.
            Some cartridges from third party vendors felt apart already at >=260 degree.

            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 3 Feb 2020, 13:56 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              infiniteloop @saymtech
              last edited by 3 Feb 2020, 13:38

              @saymtech said in Head temperature 500 ° not reached:

              But we have already managed to go up to 500 °

              If you want to print at 500 Deg., this is your man.

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 3 Feb 2020, 14:42 Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                dc42 administrators @dgrat
                last edited by dc42 2 Mar 2020, 13:58 3 Feb 2020, 13:56

                @dgrat said in Head temperature 500 ° not reached:

                I think that E3D does not support 500 degree for their standard cartridges.
                There are problems:

                • Aluminium gets soft
                • Thermal expansion
                • Material degradation

                I feel, >300 degree is the point where stuff becomes quiet dangerous.
                Some cartridges from third party vendors felt apart already at >=260 degree.

                E3D sells copper heater blocks for high temperatures, see https://e3d-online.com/v6-plated-copper-heater-block. They also sell titanium heat breaks, which will reduce the heat conducted away from the heater block.

                Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  andornot
                  last edited by 3 Feb 2020, 14:11

                  My delta reaches 450 degrees no problem with an e3d online hotend, not tried 500 yet, but there are no plastics that i am aware of that need that temperature.

                  SpatialOne custom delta printer, upgrading to print PEEK, PEKK & Ultem

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    richardmckenna @infiniteloop
                    last edited by 3 Feb 2020, 14:42

                    @infiniteloop Freedomheight! Never understood it, read the wiki page, still don't understand it. The description on how he devised the calibration points is just so random.

                    0°F for when ice and salty water are in equilibrium (fair enough), 30°F for when ice is just starting to form on the surface of water (why 30?) and 90°F for the temperature under your arm pit or in your mouth (hmm ok).

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                    • undefined
                      Phaedrux Moderator
                      last edited by 3 Feb 2020, 18:59

                      Might want to look at a Dyze hotend for such high temp applications.

                      https://dyzedesign.com/

                      There is no way I would trust a V6 style block and cartridge at anything much over 300c. It's just not the intended application.

                      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 3 Feb 2020, 19:52 Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        dc42 administrators @Phaedrux
                        last edited by dc42 2 Mar 2020, 19:53 3 Feb 2020, 19:52

                        @Phaedrux said in Head temperature 500 ° not reached:

                        There is no way I would trust a V6 style block and cartridge at anything much over 300c. It's just not the intended application.

                        Some variants of the hot ends that E3D sells most certainly are intended and used for high temperatures. I'm not at liberty to disclose the details (and I don't have them all); but the copper hot end blocks, titanium heat breaks, and thermocouple sensors that they sell may be relevant.

                        Personally I wouldn't use a thermistor to cover a wide temperature range, because the accuracy and resolution will be poor at both ends of the range; whereas PT100 and thermocouple sensors can give good results at all temperatures within their ratings.

                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 3 Feb 2020, 20:20 Reply Quote 1
                        • undefined
                          Phaedrux Moderator @dc42
                          last edited by 3 Feb 2020, 20:20

                          @dc42 Thanks for the insight.

                          Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            JRDM
                            last edited by JRDM 2 Apr 2020, 01:26 4 Feb 2020, 01:23

                            Maybe try tuning it to a temperature it more easily reaches? Deadtime autotune has time limits. Deadtime heating algorithm seems much less sensitive to tuning temperature than PID anyway.

                            Maybe make sure your thermal sensor settings are reasonably good, find some means of verifying the temperature such as embedding a thermocouple probe in the block at the same time.

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