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CAN cable for tool distribution board to tool board

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Duet Hardware and wiring
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  • undefined
    oliof
    last edited by oliof 3 Feb 2020, 22:27 2 Mar 2020, 22:27

    Hi,
    the tool board documenation says to use a straight-through cable comprising two twisted pairs to connect it to the distribution board.

    The most commonly available cable for that is CAT5, but I am hesitant to use a network cable for a moving connection because CAT5 usually does not like that.

    Can I get a recommendation for a cable? Or am I expected to twist my own pairs?

    Best,
    Harald

    <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      whosrdaddy
      last edited by 2 Mar 2020, 22:30

      Look for the stranded CAT5 variant, solid cable will fatigue very quickly on a moving head.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • ?
        A Former User
        last edited by 2 Mar 2020, 22:32

        Patch cables are usually stranded while bulk cable for installation is usually solid core (but you can get stranded cable in bulk as well, definitively worth making sure getting stranded ☝ )

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        • undefined
          oliof
          last edited by 2 Mar 2020, 22:44

          OK, I'll take one of the patch cables and see how long they will last being moved around (-:

          <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

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          • undefined
            dc42 administrators
            last edited by dc42 3 Feb 2020, 23:14 2 Mar 2020, 22:52

            I am about to make up these cables myself, for using a Tool Board on the E3D Tool Changer. I bought some of this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spectra-Strip-13-Twisted-Pairs-Ribbon-Cable-455-278-26-26x7-34-5-Metres-OMR4-02/251792806204. I plan to extract two of the pairs and use those.

            Here are some other possibilities:

            • Take a High Speed ADSL cable and cut off the RJ11 connectors
            • Take an Ethernet patch cable, cut off the connectors, remove the sheath, and extract two of the twisted pairs
            • I have some flat Cat 6 Ethernet patch leads (see https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/search?controller=search&search_query=flat+network+cable) which are very flexible in the thin direction. So I could cut off the connectors and use two of the pairs in one of those.
            • This http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1377874.pdf is available from some of the usual electronic component distributors

            Whichever I use, I will solder the ends to the 4-pin JST connector tails provided in the connector packs, using heatshrink sleeving to insulate each connection and more heatshrink over each bundle to add mechanical strength.

            Over short distances it may be possible to use just one pair between the distribution board and the tool board, in conjunction with two ferrite beads at the distribution board end; but I haven't done any measurements on this setup yet.

            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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            • undefined
              bot
              last edited by 2 Mar 2020, 22:57

              In some regions, this is only an option for registered companies, but Misumi has a range of cables designed for movement, with a categorization scheme that tells you how good it is for shielding, flexibility, etc. All of their products (listed under the Misumi brand, but are actually other brands) have very good specifications listed.

              Here is one example. On that page, they link to a customizable industrial network cable that could also help. They have tons of stuff.

              *not actually a robot

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              • undefined
                Danal
                last edited by 3 Mar 2020, 00:43

                You can also harvest from old USB or Mouse cables. Some very fine stranded wire is available that way. Fine in terms of both "small/thin" and "good quality".

                Delta / Kossel printer fanatic

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                • undefined
                  deckingman
                  last edited by 3 Mar 2020, 08:15

                  On the subject of making up cables, I bought a cheap kit off of eBay or Amazon (can't remember which). I was able to make some using single strand solid core cable, but I found that trying to get 4, multi strand wires into the 4 separate inputs of an RJ receptacle was simply impossible for me to do.

                  Ian
                  https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                  https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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                  • ?
                    A Former User
                    last edited by 3 Mar 2020, 08:50

                    Keep the part of the cable stripped of the sheath short, straighten and arrange the wires so they sort of keep their shape before sliding the plug on.

                    On the other hand you can get three piece plugs with a sort of a tray to line the wires in + strain relief that may make it easier. (Not sure if they make them for RJ11/RJ14 or just RJ45 though)

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 3 Mar 2020, 11:45 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      mundsen
                      last edited by 3 Mar 2020, 09:29

                      Is something like this an alternative?

                      https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32819201617.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6c4e22d80MuYak&algo_pvid=ad45ae30-2fb9-4f57-950c-7ce82b598ece&algo_expid=ad45ae30-2fb9-4f57-950c-7ce82b598ece-0&btsid=0ab50f6115832276850845160e3dd3&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

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                      • undefined
                        deckingman @A Former User
                        last edited by 3 Mar 2020, 11:45

                        @bearer said in CAN cable for tool distribution board to tool board:

                        Keep the part of the cable stripped of the sheath short, straighten and arrange the wires so they sort of keep their shape before sliding the plug on.

                        On the other hand you can get three piece plugs with a sort of a tray to line the wires in + strain relief that may make it easier. (Not sure if they make them for RJ11/RJ14 or just RJ45 though)

                        That's what I tried to do and managed it with solid core conductors, but trying to arrange the multi-core flexible stuff to keep it's shape as I slid it into the plug, I found extremely difficult to do. Obviously it must be possible because I bought flexible leads which I cut one end off, but it's not something that I could master - younger eyes and hands might help. ☺

                        Ian
                        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                        https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 3 Mar 2020, 16:44 Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          oliof
                          last edited by 3 Mar 2020, 13:58

                          After fighting through some confusion with straight-through twisted pair, I sacrificed a quite flexible Ethernet cable that came with my wifi access point, did a terrible solder job that's hidden by two to three layers of heatshrink tubing, and the magic smoke stayed in the boards (-:

                          IMG_20200303_145551_1.jpg

                          Now that that's out of the way, I need to make new board mounts for the distribution board and the tool board. Luckily I have added some mount holes for additional things to my carriage, so I do not need to completely redesign it (-:

                          <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 4 Mar 2020, 09:37 Reply Quote 1
                          • ?
                            A Former User
                            last edited by 3 Mar 2020, 16:34

                            @oliof said in CAN cable for tool distribution board to tool board:

                            did a terrible solder job that's hidden by two to three layers of heatshrink tubing, and the magic smoke stayed in the boards (-:

                            If you're unable to secure the heatshrinked part of the cable I'd try to get a hold of some JST ZH terminals and crimp to the twisted pairs instead of soldering; looks like you have a very narrow section for the cable to flex between the heat shrink and the connector?

                            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 4 Mar 2020, 09:40 Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              gtj0 @deckingman
                              last edited by 3 Mar 2020, 16:44

                              @deckingman said in CAN cable for tool distribution board to tool board:

                              @bearer said in CAN cable for tool distribution board to tool board:

                              Keep the part of the cable stripped of the sheath short, straighten and arrange the wires so they sort of keep their shape before sliding the plug on.

                              On the other hand you can get three piece plugs with a sort of a tray to line the wires in + strain relief that may make it easier. (Not sure if they make them for RJ11/RJ14 or just RJ45 though)

                              That's what I tried to do and managed it with solid core conductors, but trying to arrange the multi-core flexible stuff to keep it's shape as I slid it into the plug, I found extremely difficult to do. Obviously it must be possible because I bought flexible leads which I cut one end off, but it's not something that I could master - younger eyes and hands might help. ☺

                              Yeah the stranded conductors have very little memory compared to solid ones. I've used several methods...

                              • Arrange the conductors then use a dab of superglue to fix them to a small piece pf paper leaving a few millimeters at the conductor ends to slide into the pin slots.

                              • Use a tiny bit of Kapton tape across the conductors, again leaving a few millimeters free to slide into the slots.

                              • Heat the conductors with a heat gun, pull them through your fingers to straighten them, then let them cool and stiffen.

                              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 3 Mar 2020, 16:45 Reply Quote 1
                              • undefined
                                deckingman @gtj0
                                last edited by 3 Mar 2020, 16:45

                                @gtj0 Good tips - thanks.

                                Ian
                                https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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                                • undefined
                                  dc42 administrators @oliof
                                  last edited by 4 Mar 2020, 09:37

                                  @oliof, I recommend that you zip ties the cables to a secure point on your print head to provide strain relief, and leave the wire ends going into the JST ZH connector loose and flexible so as to avoid pulling on the crimp joints. Here https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com/2020/03/04/converting-the-e3d-tool-changer-to-duet-3-with-hemera-tools-part-2/ is how I did it.

                                  Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                  Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                  http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 4 Mar 2020, 12:17 Reply Quote 0
                                  • undefined
                                    dc42 administrators @A Former User
                                    last edited by dc42 3 Apr 2020, 09:40 4 Mar 2020, 09:40

                                    @bearer said in CAN cable for tool distribution board to tool board:

                                    @oliof said in CAN cable for tool distribution board to tool board:

                                    did a terrible solder job that's hidden by two to three layers of heatshrink tubing, and the magic smoke stayed in the boards (-:

                                    If you're unable to secure the heatshrinked part of the cable I'd try to get a hold of some JST ZH terminals and crimp to the twisted pairs instead of soldering; looks like you have a very narrow section for the cable to flex between the heat shrink and the connector?

                                    The only time I tried to use JST ZH connectors without using pre-made tails, I gave up trying to crimp them, but soldering the wires to the crimp pins worked. But I have a smaller crimping tool now.

                                    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • undefined
                                      oliof @dc42
                                      last edited by 4 Mar 2020, 12:17

                                      @dc42 cable strain relief will be part of the board mount, and I can remove the lower heatshrink tube freeing up the wire ends a bit. Thanks for the recommendation!

                                      <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

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                                      • undefined
                                        dc42 administrators
                                        last edited by dc42 3 Apr 2020, 15:26 4 Mar 2020, 15:25

                                        BTW while commissioning the Hemera tool in my tool changer I found a bug in the 3.01-RC3 tool board firmware. See https://forum.duet3d.com/post/136597 for how to get a fixed version.

                                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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