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    Indirect (bearing) laser filament monitor concept

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    Filament Monitor
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    • dc42undefined
      dc42 administrators @Adrian52
      last edited by

      @adrian52 said in Indirect (bearing) laser filament monitor concept:

      I have also started to note the error rates for the monitor reported by M122. For tests below 1.3mm/sec, frame errors are 2000-4000, and pol errors high(20000-30000). Above 1.3mm/sec, frame errors are 20000 - 30000, but pol errors are below 10000.

      Hmm, that sounds odd. Which firmware version are you running? Run M115 to make sure. Also, which revision Duet do you have? We changed the values of the filtering capacitors on later ones to help the filament monitor signals get through more reliably.

      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

      Adrian52undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Adrian52undefined
        Adrian52 @dc42
        last edited by

        @dc42 running 2.03+1. I have a 1.01 duet wifi. Is there a way I can improve the situation?

        dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • dc42undefined
          dc42 administrators @Adrian52
          last edited by dc42

          You could try connecting the filament monitor to one of the endstop inputs on CONN_LCD, which have no filter capacitors. That would be easier than removing the filter capacitor from a regular endstop input on the Duet. But if the problem is interference from a stepper motor cable, it may make matters worse.

          Keep the cable to the filament monitor away from the extruder motor cable; or if they must run together, try using shielded cable for the filament monitor.

          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

          Adrian52undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • Adrian52undefined
            Adrian52 @dc42
            last edited by

            @dc42 Excellent advice. I have connected to stop 10 on conn_lcd using shielded cable (a repurposed USB cable that also has a ferrite ring), and the errors are now zero. I have got up to 3mm/second filament (0.5 width, 0.3 height at 60mm/sec) and the max/min were 107%/95% of the average. Wow.

            mitchundefined JADoglioundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • tagliaundefined
              taglia @Crash69
              last edited by

              @crash69 Thank you for this; I really like your design (it printed like a charm)! Also, your .scad file is straightforward to tweak. I have changed the following:

              • Added a bracket to attach to my Ender 3 with a SeeMeCNC EZR Struder;
              • Increased the sensor distance to 19mm (thanks @Adrian52 for the analysis);
              • Made the split on the bearing mounts longer, to make it easier to slide the bearings in;
              • Adapted the bearing size to some bearing I had lying around (16x8x5).

              I did a quick test with a shorter sensor distance; the results were much better than with direct reading, but I still got a wide range. In the next few days, I will print another one with all the changes listed above. If anybody is interested, I can publish the remix.

              Thank you all for this very informative thread.

              brunofportoundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • brunofportoundefined
                brunofporto @taglia
                last edited by

                @taglia Please do publish! 😄

                tagliaundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • tagliaundefined
                  taglia @brunofporto
                  last edited by

                  @brunofporto Apologies for the long silence, it took me a while to get to some good results. I have now managed to print for a couple of days with consistent results and no sudden pauses. The sensor also saved a big part that I was printing (no more filament).

                  The cause of my problems was the filament sliding on the bearing, and this caused negative reads. I have found this product at a local shop, sprayed two layers on my bearings, and the sensor seems now stable, even at high speed. I have also increased the pressure a bit and reprinted the mount with black eSun PLA+, which appears to be stronger than regular PLA.

                  This is the model that I am currently using. I was too lazy to remodel the attachment to the extruder, which I had already designed in Fusion 360: this is the STL imported by the OpenSCAD file.

                  These are the bearings.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • 3dmntbighkerundefined
                    3dmntbighker
                    last edited by 3dmntbighker

                    Anybody determine the optimized number for "E" with an indirect bearing setup? I see someone using E5, but I get no data with E5. E4 seems to work.

                    Duet3D laser filament monitor v1 on input 3, disabled, allow 10% to 75%, check every 4.0mm, version 1, measured min 17% avg 30% max 47% over 246.5mm

                    Duet3D laser filament monitor v1 on input 3, enabled, allow 10% to 70%, check every 4.0mm, version 1, measured min 14% avg 29% max 54% over 2218.6mm

                    BTW, what is different about the version 2 sensor? Or is it a firmware difference?

                    Scratch built CoreXY with Maestro
                    Heavily modified Ender 3 with Maestro
                    MPCNC work in progress with Duet WiFi

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • danzaywerundefined
                      danzaywer
                      last edited by danzaywer

                      @Crash69 said in Indirect (bearing) laser filament monitor concept:

                      5x10x4 (mr105)

                      Hi everyone, I just published my interpretation for a Duet3D laser filament monitor enclosure. Use a rubber band and have moving parts.
                      https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4147811
                      render1.png

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • radekzlundefined
                        radekzl
                        last edited by

                        Thank you very much for your idea. I do little improvement on bearings I put there black heat shrink tube. Between bearings and heat shrink tube I put chemoprene glue and everythink works fine. Surface is black and scanning is stable:

                        Duet3D laser filament monitor v1 on input 4, enabled, allow 15% to 250%, check every 6.0mm, version 1, measured min 154% avg 166% max 174% over 6397.2mm

                        This values are stable for all materials which I tested yet.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • cabal2000undefined
                          cabal2000 @brunofporto
                          last edited by

                          @brunofporto said in Indirect (bearing) laser filament monitor concept:

                          F623ZZ

                          Love this design, did you redesign for F623ZZ or will the present config work?

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • mitchundefined
                            mitch
                            last edited by mitch

                            An interesting remix is out there as well.
                            https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4341389

                            I found most of the parts on amazon but it can get a bit spendy. I would like to see the roller pulley as a micro switch so it could be used as a static filament sensor for startup and filament change macros.

                            Carbon Fiber Rod 5mm
                            https://amzn.to/3agj6Mc

                            U604 Bearing
                            https://amzn.to/2PE3Wa4

                            MR95ZZ Bearing x 2
                            https://amzn.to/3fJYTPM

                            Embedded Bowden Coupling for Metal for E3D heatsink x 1
                            https://amzn.to/3akDv2N

                            Belt Tensioner Spring
                            https://amzn.to/3ijLIqD

                            Extruder PUlly 36T
                            https://amzn.to/31N5rsf

                            M3 Insert Brass Nut
                            https://amzn.to/3kqOkEO

                            JADoglioundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • mitchundefined
                              mitch @Adrian52
                              last edited by

                              @Adrian52 said in Indirect (bearing) laser filament monitor concept:

                              @dc42 Excellent advice. I have connected to stop 10 on conn_lcd using shielded cable (a repurposed USB cable that also has a ferrite ring), and the errors are now zero. I have got up to 3mm/second filament (0.5 width, 0.3 height at 60mm/sec) and the max/min were 107%/95% of the average. Wow.

                              @Adrian52 , Are you saying that by using the direct filament (stock so to speak) enclosure you are getting zero errors now that you have a shielded cable running from your sensor to the board? I am debating on attempting your indirect enclosure concept but if you had success by making a wiring modification perhaps that is a better way to fix this.

                              Also, Any chance you would want to factor in a roller micro switch into your mod so that the sensor can be used as a static filament present sensor as well?

                              Adrian52undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • JADoglioundefined
                                JADoglio @mitch
                                last edited by

                                @mitch

                                This is a really good design. Have you built one and tested it yet? Thanks

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • mitchundefined
                                  mitch
                                  last edited by mitch

                                  I am attempting to print the enclosure for it now. I could prob build a few because I will have a few left over parts. Parts are still on order. I am curious if a carbon tube would work instead of the rod. The design seems to show some notches cut so I went with the solid rod.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Adrian52undefined
                                    Adrian52 @mitch
                                    last edited by

                                    @mitch sorry for the late reply - been away. I have an early duet wifi, which apparently doesn't have optimal filtering capacitors on endstop inputs for the filament monitor. I have had no errors at all since using a conn_lcd input with a shielded cable.
                                    I have not tried a static switch - I only have one printer, so the runout function of the monitor is fine for me.
                                    I have found the indirect monitor arrangement excellent- the monitored total extrusion is usually spookily accurate.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • JADoglioundefined
                                      JADoglio @Adrian52
                                      last edited by

                                      @Adrian52 When you connect to the laser to the CONN_LCD header I assume you are using pins 9 (STP 10), Pin 1 (+3.3V) and Pin 2 (GND). Is that correct? If not can you be more specific on how you connected or better yet provide a picture? Thanks

                                      Adrian52undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Adrian52undefined
                                        Adrian52 @JADoglio
                                        last edited by

                                        @JADoglio Here is how I am connected to the conn_lcd input:
                                        alt text, with the connection at the monitor:
                                        alt text

                                        This is the snippet from config.g:

                                        ;****rrf2******
                                        ;M591 D0 P5 C10 R200:400 E10 S0 A1		;extruder 0, laser w/o switch, e0 endstop, 40-160% range, 10mm, inactive (S1 active), check all motion
                                        ;****rrf3******
                                        M591 D0 P5 C"connlcd.encb" R40:360 E10 S0 A1	;version for reprap3
                                        

                                        As you can see I currently use the rrf3 version. Hope this helps.

                                        JADoglioundefined mitchundefined 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • JADoglioundefined
                                          JADoglio @Adrian52
                                          last edited by

                                          @Adrian52 It helps very much. Thanks

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • JADoglioundefined
                                            JADoglio @Adrian52
                                            last edited by

                                            @Adrian52 One other question. I have not found a good explanation for when to use the "S" parameter. When it is active does that mean the sensor will detect jams in addition to run outs? I assume when it is inactive it will still detect runouts. Any clarification on this parameter would be helpful. I am also not using the "A" parameter. Should I add that as well and what is its function. Thanks again.

                                            Adrian52undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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