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Indirect (bearing) laser filament monitor concept

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Filament Monitor
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  • undefined
    dc42 administrators @Adrian52
    last edited by 4 Jul 2019, 08:48

    @adrian52 said in Indirect (bearing) laser filament monitor concept:

    I have also started to note the error rates for the monitor reported by M122. For tests below 1.3mm/sec, frame errors are 2000-4000, and pol errors high(20000-30000). Above 1.3mm/sec, frame errors are 20000 - 30000, but pol errors are below 10000.

    Hmm, that sounds odd. Which firmware version are you running? Run M115 to make sure. Also, which revision Duet do you have? We changed the values of the filtering capacitors on later ones to help the filament monitor signals get through more reliably.

    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 4 Jul 2019, 09:09 Reply Quote 0
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      Adrian52 @dc42
      last edited by 4 Jul 2019, 09:09

      @dc42 running 2.03+1. I have a 1.01 duet wifi. Is there a way I can improve the situation?

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 4 Jul 2019, 10:22 Reply Quote 0
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        dc42 administrators @Adrian52
        last edited by dc42 7 Apr 2019, 10:23 4 Jul 2019, 10:22

        You could try connecting the filament monitor to one of the endstop inputs on CONN_LCD, which have no filter capacitors. That would be easier than removing the filter capacitor from a regular endstop input on the Duet. But if the problem is interference from a stepper motor cable, it may make matters worse.

        Keep the cable to the filament monitor away from the extruder motor cable; or if they must run together, try using shielded cable for the filament monitor.

        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 4 Jul 2019, 16:59 Reply Quote 1
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          Adrian52 @dc42
          last edited by 4 Jul 2019, 16:59

          @dc42 Excellent advice. I have connected to stop 10 on conn_lcd using shielded cable (a repurposed USB cable that also has a ferrite ring), and the errors are now zero. I have got up to 3mm/second filament (0.5 width, 0.3 height at 60mm/sec) and the max/min were 107%/95% of the average. Wow.

          undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 9 Aug 2020, 02:02 Reply Quote 1
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            taglia @Crash69
            last edited by 26 Aug 2019, 03:49

            @crash69 Thank you for this; I really like your design (it printed like a charm)! Also, your .scad file is straightforward to tweak. I have changed the following:

            • Added a bracket to attach to my Ender 3 with a SeeMeCNC EZR Struder;
            • Increased the sensor distance to 19mm (thanks @Adrian52 for the analysis);
            • Made the split on the bearing mounts longer, to make it easier to slide the bearings in;
            • Adapted the bearing size to some bearing I had lying around (16x8x5).

            I did a quick test with a shorter sensor distance; the results were much better than with direct reading, but I still got a wide range. In the next few days, I will print another one with all the changes listed above. If anybody is interested, I can publish the remix.

            Thank you all for this very informative thread.

            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 30 Aug 2019, 11:40 Reply Quote 0
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              brunofporto @taglia
              last edited by 30 Aug 2019, 11:40

              @taglia Please do publish! 😄

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 8 Sept 2019, 09:25 Reply Quote 1
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                taglia @brunofporto
                last edited by 8 Sept 2019, 09:25

                @brunofporto Apologies for the long silence, it took me a while to get to some good results. I have now managed to print for a couple of days with consistent results and no sudden pauses. The sensor also saved a big part that I was printing (no more filament).

                The cause of my problems was the filament sliding on the bearing, and this caused negative reads. I have found this product at a local shop, sprayed two layers on my bearings, and the sensor seems now stable, even at high speed. I have also increased the pressure a bit and reprinted the mount with black eSun PLA+, which appears to be stronger than regular PLA.

                This is the model that I am currently using. I was too lazy to remodel the attachment to the extruder, which I had already designed in Fusion 360: this is the STL imported by the OpenSCAD file.

                These are the bearings.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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                  3dmntbighker
                  last edited by 3dmntbighker 12 Sept 2019, 00:41 8 Dec 2019, 09:30

                  Anybody determine the optimized number for "E" with an indirect bearing setup? I see someone using E5, but I get no data with E5. E4 seems to work.

                  Duet3D laser filament monitor v1 on input 3, disabled, allow 10% to 75%, check every 4.0mm, version 1, measured min 17% avg 30% max 47% over 246.5mm

                  Duet3D laser filament monitor v1 on input 3, enabled, allow 10% to 70%, check every 4.0mm, version 1, measured min 14% avg 29% max 54% over 2218.6mm

                  BTW, what is different about the version 2 sensor? Or is it a firmware difference?

                  Scratch built CoreXY with Maestro
                  Heavily modified Ender 3 with Maestro
                  MPCNC work in progress with Duet WiFi

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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                    danzaywer
                    last edited by danzaywer 2 Jun 2020, 16:38 6 Feb 2020, 16:33

                    @Crash69 said in Indirect (bearing) laser filament monitor concept:

                    5x10x4 (mr105)

                    Hi everyone, I just published my interpretation for a Duet3D laser filament monitor enclosure. Use a rubber band and have moving parts.
                    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4147811
                    render1.png

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                    • undefined
                      radekzl
                      last edited by 5 Apr 2020, 20:27

                      Thank you very much for your idea. I do little improvement on bearings I put there black heat shrink tube. Between bearings and heat shrink tube I put chemoprene glue and everythink works fine. Surface is black and scanning is stable:

                      Duet3D laser filament monitor v1 on input 4, enabled, allow 15% to 250%, check every 6.0mm, version 1, measured min 154% avg 166% max 174% over 6397.2mm

                      This values are stable for all materials which I tested yet.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        cabal2000 @brunofporto
                        last edited by 3 Aug 2020, 17:44

                        @brunofporto said in Indirect (bearing) laser filament monitor concept:

                        F623ZZ

                        Love this design, did you redesign for F623ZZ or will the present config work?

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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                          mitch
                          last edited by mitch 8 Sept 2020, 01:34 9 Aug 2020, 00:55

                          An interesting remix is out there as well.
                          https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4341389

                          I found most of the parts on amazon but it can get a bit spendy. I would like to see the roller pulley as a micro switch so it could be used as a static filament sensor for startup and filament change macros.

                          Carbon Fiber Rod 5mm
                          https://amzn.to/3agj6Mc

                          U604 Bearing
                          https://amzn.to/2PE3Wa4

                          MR95ZZ Bearing x 2
                          https://amzn.to/3fJYTPM

                          Embedded Bowden Coupling for Metal for E3D heatsink x 1
                          https://amzn.to/3akDv2N

                          Belt Tensioner Spring
                          https://amzn.to/3ijLIqD

                          Extruder PUlly 36T
                          https://amzn.to/31N5rsf

                          M3 Insert Brass Nut
                          https://amzn.to/3kqOkEO

                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Aug 2020, 00:41 Reply Quote 0
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                            mitch @Adrian52
                            last edited by 9 Aug 2020, 02:02

                            @Adrian52 said in Indirect (bearing) laser filament monitor concept:

                            @dc42 Excellent advice. I have connected to stop 10 on conn_lcd using shielded cable (a repurposed USB cable that also has a ferrite ring), and the errors are now zero. I have got up to 3mm/second filament (0.5 width, 0.3 height at 60mm/sec) and the max/min were 107%/95% of the average. Wow.

                            @Adrian52 , Are you saying that by using the direct filament (stock so to speak) enclosure you are getting zero errors now that you have a shielded cable running from your sensor to the board? I am debating on attempting your indirect enclosure concept but if you had success by making a wiring modification perhaps that is a better way to fix this.

                            Also, Any chance you would want to factor in a roller micro switch into your mod so that the sensor can be used as a static filament present sensor as well?

                            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 10 Aug 2020, 09:06 Reply Quote 0
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                              JADoglio @mitch
                              last edited by 10 Aug 2020, 00:41

                              @mitch

                              This is a really good design. Have you built one and tested it yet? Thanks

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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                                mitch
                                last edited by mitch 8 Oct 2020, 02:20 10 Aug 2020, 02:19

                                I am attempting to print the enclosure for it now. I could prob build a few because I will have a few left over parts. Parts are still on order. I am curious if a carbon tube would work instead of the rod. The design seems to show some notches cut so I went with the solid rod.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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                                  Adrian52 @mitch
                                  last edited by 10 Aug 2020, 09:06

                                  @mitch sorry for the late reply - been away. I have an early duet wifi, which apparently doesn't have optimal filtering capacitors on endstop inputs for the filament monitor. I have had no errors at all since using a conn_lcd input with a shielded cable.
                                  I have not tried a static switch - I only have one printer, so the runout function of the monitor is fine for me.
                                  I have found the indirect monitor arrangement excellent- the monitored total extrusion is usually spookily accurate.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • undefined
                                    JADoglio @Adrian52
                                    last edited by 12 Aug 2020, 03:33

                                    @Adrian52 When you connect to the laser to the CONN_LCD header I assume you are using pins 9 (STP 10), Pin 1 (+3.3V) and Pin 2 (GND). Is that correct? If not can you be more specific on how you connected or better yet provide a picture? Thanks

                                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 12 Aug 2020, 16:52 Reply Quote 0
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                                      Adrian52 @JADoglio
                                      last edited by 12 Aug 2020, 16:52

                                      @JADoglio Here is how I am connected to the conn_lcd input:
                                      alt text, with the connection at the monitor:
                                      alt text

                                      This is the snippet from config.g:

                                      ;****rrf2******
                                      ;M591 D0 P5 C10 R200:400 E10 S0 A1		;extruder 0, laser w/o switch, e0 endstop, 40-160% range, 10mm, inactive (S1 active), check all motion
                                      ;****rrf3******
                                      M591 D0 P5 C"connlcd.encb" R40:360 E10 S0 A1	;version for reprap3
                                      

                                      As you can see I currently use the rrf3 version. Hope this helps.

                                      undefined undefined 3 Replies Last reply 12 Aug 2020, 16:54 Reply Quote 0
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                                        JADoglio @Adrian52
                                        last edited by 12 Aug 2020, 16:54

                                        @Adrian52 It helps very much. Thanks

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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                                          JADoglio @Adrian52
                                          last edited by 12 Aug 2020, 16:59

                                          @Adrian52 One other question. I have not found a good explanation for when to use the "S" parameter. When it is active does that mean the sensor will detect jams in addition to run outs? I assume when it is inactive it will still detect runouts. Any clarification on this parameter would be helpful. I am also not using the "A" parameter. Should I add that as well and what is its function. Thanks again.

                                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 12 Aug 2020, 18:45 Reply Quote 0
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