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RRF 2.03 pressure advance causes 20% overextrusion

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  • undefined
    dc42 administrators @Phaedrux
    last edited by 30 Aug 2020, 18:49

    @Phaedrux said in RRF 2.03 pressure advance causes 20% overextrusion:

    DC42 has added this to the list to investigate.

    I am waiting for the results from @jschall on RRF 3.1.1.

    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
    • undefined
      jschall
      last edited by 31 Aug 2020, 19:57

      Oh man, this update process is not working...

      There just aren't clear instructions anywhere...

      So, I've uploaded Duet2and3Firmware-3.0.zip, and clicked yes when it asked if I want to update. It complained about missing iap4e.bin, but it updated the web control to be very pretty. I searched around for any clear documentation, didn't find any, and assumed that I needed to rename Duet2CombinedIAP.bin to iap4e.bin and upload it. I did that.

      Now I still have a very pretty web control, but it just won't update the firmware to 3.0. No error messages whatsoever. What is the actual process to do this?

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        jschall
        last edited by 31 Aug 2020, 20:00

        Duet Web Control 2.0.4
        RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet version 2.03 running on Duet WiFi 1.02 or later + DueX5
        WiFi firmware version 1.23

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          jschall
          last edited by 31 Aug 2020, 20:05

          Got it. Had to find iap4e.bin from a really old firmware release. Had to find out about this by googling a forum post. I'm sorry, but what the heck? Why not document this in the release notes, or just put the file in the release bundle? Jeez, that's really bad.

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 31 Aug 2020, 20:28 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            dc42 administrators @jschall
            last edited by 31 Aug 2020, 20:28

            @jschall said in RRF 2.03 pressure advance causes 20% overextrusion:

            Got it. Had to find iap4e.bin from a really old firmware release. Had to find out about this by googling a forum post. I'm sorry, but what the heck? Why not document this in the release notes, or just put the file in the release bundle? Jeez, that's really bad.

            It is in the release bundle. iap4e.bin is included in the .zip file updates for RRF 2.05.1, 2.05, 2.04, and some earlier releases.

            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 31 Aug 2020, 21:06 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              jschall @dc42
              last edited by 31 Aug 2020, 21:06

              @dc42 said in RRF 2.03 pressure advance causes 20% overextrusion:

              It is in the release bundle. iap4e.bin is included in the .zip file updates for RRF 2.05.1, 2.05, 2.04, and some earlier releases.

              It is not in Duet2and3Firmware-3.0.zip

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                Phaedrux Moderator @Phaedrux
                last edited by 31 Aug 2020, 21:42

                @Phaedrux said in RRF 2.03 pressure advance causes 20% overextrusion:

                Update to 2.05.1 to get on recent code.

                Post your config.g.

                I did suggest you update to 2.05.1 first.

                The issue of missing IAP files does come up and should be better addressed in the documentation. I'll see what I can do about that.

                Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • undefined
                  jschall
                  last edited by 2 Sept 2020, 19:52

                  Currently running the test on RRF3.1.1. It is with x16 microstepping+interpolation, but I'll do a new control test with no PA as well.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    jschall
                    last edited by 2 Sept 2020, 20:43

                    Where the heck in the code are the reverse pins written?

                    Also my logic analyzer keeps failing.

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 2 Sept 2020, 20:49 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      jschall @jschall
                      last edited by 2 Sept 2020, 20:49

                      Found it.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        jschall
                        last edited by jschall 9 Mar 2020, 02:43 3 Sept 2020, 02:41

                        Got the logic analyzer to work... It is very picky about USB ports.

                        fwd_count 10734771
                        rev_count 8650049
                        net_count 2084722
                        mm 2638.888608

                        3 changes on this one:

                        • RRF 3.1.1, prior tests were at 2.03
                        • x16 microstepping, prior tests were at x8
                        • 100% speed, prior tests were at 200% speed
                        • Unplugged the extruder stepper and plugged in an identical stepper so I wouldn't have to listen to the gears make noise.

                        File is supposed to be 2545.00 mm + 15mm of priming, so this print was within 3% - pretty decent, but there's still a bug.

                        I am reverting the speed change and testing, and then I'll revert the microstepping change if it doesn't go back up to nasty overextrusion.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          jschall
                          last edited by 3 Sept 2020, 03:40

                          Just a thought, for a next generation path following algorithm, what I would do is:

                          1. Segment the toolpath into linestrings in which the angles between the lines are less than some threshold (such as 30 degrees)
                          2. Smooth those segments, using maybe a series of cubic splines (long lines may need to be split up into shorter lines first).
                          3. Compute the speed curve along the segment such that tangential and radial acceleration is limited and such that the extruder can keep up with pressure advance. Each segment starts at zero speed and pressure and ends at zero speed and pressure.

                          "Jerk" (bad choice of term) becomes unnecessary. Corners below the angle threshold are rounded smoothly, without ringing or asymmetry. The printer will come to a brief stop at sharp corners above the angle threshold, thus making them as sharp as possible.

                          A lot of this could be done (and may have to be done) in a preprocessing step.

                          undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 3 Sept 2020, 07:32 Reply Quote 1
                          • undefined
                            jschall
                            last edited by jschall 9 Mar 2020, 03:46 3 Sept 2020, 03:46

                            RRF 3.1.1, 200% speed, x16 microstepping, 1.0 PA:
                            fwd_count 12180087
                            rev_count 10084959
                            net_count 2095128
                            mm 2652.060759

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              jschall
                              last edited by 3 Sept 2020, 03:50

                              Starting test: RRF 3.1.1, 200% speed, x8 microstepping, 1.0 PA

                              This one should be apples-to-apples to the tests on RRF 2.03.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • undefined
                                jschall
                                last edited by 3 Sept 2020, 05:46

                                RRF 3.1.1, 200% speed, x8 microstepping, 1.0 PA
                                fwd_count 6073637
                                rev_count 5024835
                                net_count 1048802
                                mm 2655.194937

                                So this is not terribly huge overextrusion, I could try printing with this. There's still a bug.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • undefined
                                  dc42 administrators @jschall
                                  last edited by dc42 9 Mar 2020, 07:32 3 Sept 2020, 07:32

                                  @jschall said in RRF 2.03 pressure advance causes 20% overextrusion:

                                  Just a thought, for a next generation path following algorithm, what I would do is:

                                  1. Segment the toolpath into linestrings in which the angles between the lines are less than some threshold (such as 30 degrees)
                                  2. Smooth those segments, using maybe a series of cubic splines (long lines may need to be split up into shorter lines first).
                                  3. Compute the speed curve along the segment such that tangential and radial acceleration is limited and such that the extruder can keep up with pressure advance. Each segment starts at zero speed and pressure and ends at zero speed and pressure.

                                  "Jerk" (bad choice of term) becomes unnecessary. Corners below the angle threshold are rounded smoothly, without ringing or asymmetry. The printer will come to a brief stop at sharp corners above the angle threshold, thus making them as sharp as possible.

                                  That's similar to what I have planned. A disadvantage is that the existing effect whereby the perimeters of holes are always under-sized would be made a little worse.

                                  Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                  Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                  http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 3 Sept 2020, 16:00 Reply Quote 0
                                  • undefined
                                    T3P3Tony administrators @jschall
                                    last edited by 3 Sept 2020, 08:36

                                    @jschall said in RRF 2.03 pressure advance causes 20% overextrusion:

                                    The printer will come to a brief stop at sharp corners above the angle threshold, thus making them as sharp as possible

                                    it will be interesting to see if PA can compensate for the large blob seen when stopping briefly at corners. Currently sharp corners are slightly rounded because the printer does not come to a complete stop - but they are smooth, where as when the print hed has to be raised (e.g. to the next z level, there is a visible Z "seam".

                                    Maybe this is better off combined with jerk for angles > than the smoothing process works on.

                                    www.duet3d.com

                                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 3 Sept 2020, 16:03 Reply Quote 0
                                    • undefined
                                      jschall @dc42
                                      last edited by 3 Sept 2020, 16:00

                                      @dc42 said in RRF 2.03 pressure advance causes 20% overextrusion:

                                      That's similar to what I have planned. A disadvantage is that the existing effect whereby the perimeters of holes are always under-sized would be made a little worse.

                                      Holes are undersized because of the low resolution meshes. I generally export my STLs with higher resolution.

                                      I did this real quick, based on wikipedia's python example of catmull-rom splines. The yellow line is the spline drawn through only the provided points, and the blue line is the spline when additional control points are added to limit the length of curved sections. It shouldn't cause holes to undersize - if anything it will make them better.

                                      Figure_1-1.png

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • undefined
                                        jschall @T3P3Tony
                                        last edited by 3 Sept 2020, 16:03

                                        @T3P3Tony said in RRF 2.03 pressure advance causes 20% overextrusion:

                                        Maybe this is better off combined with jerk for angles > than the smoothing process works on.

                                        Here's the thing though - just increase acceleration. That's effectively what jerk is doing anyway.

                                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 3 Sept 2020, 20:08 Reply Quote 0
                                        • undefined
                                          jschall
                                          last edited by 3 Sept 2020, 18:28

                                          Hard enough to get PrusaSlicer to generate gcode without 20% more extrusion than the volume of the STL in the first place 😄

                                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 4 Sept 2020, 20:16 Reply Quote 0
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