Requirements to have a 1000x1000 aluminium build plate
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@deckingman said in Requirements to have a 1000x1000 aluminium build plate:
Just out of interest, I checked the cost of granite surface plates here in the UK. 1,000mm x 1,000mm comes at a thickness of 150mm, cost is about £1,850 and it weighs in at 450 Kgs.
Talk to a a supplier out of china. You can get just about any thickness and size. Getting something from a supplier like Starret requires you convincing them to violate all their company values.
Heck, I'd probably start by going to my local kitchen granite store with a straight edge. You'd be shocked how flat just regular granite slabs are once they polish them.
And the 305x305mm granite bed I built back in the day took 4-8 times longer to heat up and probably even longer to cool down, compared to MIC6.
@vistalert said in Requirements to have a 1000x1000 aluminium build plate:
Here in Perth, Western Australia
we live in the most remote city in the world
So sometimes we have to get creative
I lived in the Other Perth once, long ago. Not as much sun, but much more convenient... for just about everything!
Isolate, substitute, verify.
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I applaud your ambitions efforts, but your expectations for a flat heated bed of this size are unreasonable withough significant expense and fabrication.
Speaking as someone who has the both the schooling, academic references and software for analysis and design this sort of thing, and the access to the tools, equipment and material suppliers for what your are asking, i would advise against it.
Look a the various videos on youtube for surface plate calibration and look the ribbing on the cast iron ones and the thickness of the granite ones.
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@vistalert said in Requirements to have a 1000x1000 aluminium build plate:
@o_lampe I did contact one tombstone supplier, but they were a dead loss!
I don't know if it was CoVid invoked, but the guy couldn't stop coffin. (ouch)
I think if anybody could make a printer lift a monolithic build plate, it would be @deckingman
I went to a graveyard and there were a bunch of guys walking round and round with a coffin. They'd obviously lost the plot..........
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@theruttmeister - I've never been to the "real" Perth, but I'm originally from Yorkshire. But you could tell that from the accent, right?
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@deckingman Gold!
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@sinned6915 I'm not sure I actually stated any expectations, nor questioned anyone's credentials. I'm here to seek a simple answer. The simple answer to the question just needs to be "a plate of x and y size, needs to be z thick". Based
on many other factors then I can make a decision, with one more blank filled in.I've seen terrible warped beds work "ok" (I used to have one). So I know not to "need" perfection. I'm pragmatic.
Many times I've got through life with "good enough" solutions, by listening, learning and then acting, learning some more when I stuff up, and iterating. That's all I'm doing here. I'm not sure how the impression was gained that I'd be acquiring iron or granite plates. I just find this diverse thinking interesting and educational.
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@vistalert you are missing the point. everyone is telling you its not a good idea and why.
i'm telling you that even with the 'credentials' and tools, I would not attempt it.'resonable deflection' means what exactly? 0.1mm? 0.05mm? you want to 'know' how much- look up plate deflection equations, there are plenty online, and calc it. 3 point will be worse than 4 point, so stick with 4 point.
i would not be surprised that to hold 0.1mm or less on 1m, you will end up with a Mic6 plate at least an inch in thickness. that will be on the order of 200-250 pounds.
cast iron surface plates are a corrolary as to how the world makes things so that they stay FLAT, flat as in refernce surfaces to know ant trust as flat.
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@sinned6915 said in Requirements to have a 1000x1000 aluminium build plate:
everyone is telling you its not a good idea and why.
'Everyone'?
Please, I can speak for myself...
A few people mentioned how to build a subframe; how to support and adjust a reasonable thick MIC6 plate.
It's not done in an evening, but doable. -
@deckingman said in Requirements to have a 1000x1000 aluminium build plate:
I went to a graveyard and there were a bunch of guys walking round and round with a coffin.
That must've been a 'Thriller' ?
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@sinned6915 said in Requirements to have a 1000x1000 aluminium build plate:
@vistalert you are missing the point. everyone is telling you its not a good idea and why.
i'm telling you that even with the 'credentials' and tools, I would not attempt it...............i would not be surprised that to hold 0.1mm or less on 1m, you will end up with a Mic6 plate at least an inch in thickness. that will be on the order of 200-250 pounds.
Err, the density of aluminium is around 2.7 gms/cm^3. A plate 1metre square would be 10,000 cm^2 (100 x 100). 1 inch is roughly 2.5cm so 10,000 x 2.5 = 25,000 cm^3 x 2.7 = 67500 gms = 67.5Kgs = about 148lbs. So your weight calculation of 200 - 250 lbs is out by a significant amount. But with a support frame that some of us have mentioned, the thickness could be halved bring the weight down to about 34 Kgs or around 76 lbs. I'd say it's doable without too much trouble (costly at around £600 for 12mm thick cast aluminium tooling plate but doable).
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@vistalert said in Requirements to have a 1000x1000 aluminium build plate:
@sinned6915 I'm not sure I actually stated any expectations, nor questioned anyone's credentials. I'm here to seek a simple answer. The simple answer to the question just needs to be "a plate of x and y size, needs to be z thick". Based
on many other factors then I can make a decision, with one more blank filled in.I've seen terrible warped beds work "ok" (I used to have one). So I know not to "need" perfection. I'm pragmatic.
Many times I've got through life with "good enough" solutions, by listening, learning and then acting, learning some more when I stuff up, and iterating. That's all I'm doing here. I'm not sure how the impression was gained that I'd be acquiring iron or granite plates. I just find this diverse thinking interesting and educational.
If I was trying to keep cost down I'd go with 1/4" plate (assuming you can get it big enough). Support it at ~300mm on center.
Then make sure the mountings both let you adjust for bow in the plate and its supporting frame, and allow the plate to expand.Then spend the money on making sure the gantry is flat and stiff, because then you can tram the bed to it. Making a gantry that long flat is much less work.
There is no 'right' thickness of plate. With the right design it could be 2mm thick. Or you could go with 25mm. I'm suggesting 1/4" just because its reasonably able to hold its shape, so you are less likely to ruin its flatness during handling, and doesn't need 400 supports.
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@theruttmeister said in Requirements to have a 1000x1000 aluminium build plate:
There is no 'right' thickness of plate. With the right design it could be 2mm thick.
With a 1x1m bed you have to consider, people have to step on the bed to remove the print and prepare for the next one. A 2mm plate would bend locally, from the forces it takes to remove the print and the weight of the person.
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At 1sq meter maybe plywood and a coating of self-leveling cement? Embed a floor heating coil in the cement?
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@o_lampe .... long handled spatula and if you are patient enough to let the bed cool all the way you can work with a walking cane and just slide the print off.
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@phaedrux said in Requirements to have a 1000x1000 aluminium build plate:
At 1sq meter maybe plywood and a coating of self-leveling cement? Embed a floor heating coil in the cement?
I like the idea! How flat would that cement be?
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@o_lampe said in Requirements to have a 1000x1000 aluminium build plate:
How flat would that cement be?
Flat enough for a sensor to handle I think, but not sub-mm flat. Might be able to smooth it by hand, or even press something flat onto it to help a bit? Not sure.
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@o_lampe said in Requirements to have a 1000x1000 aluminium build plate:
@phaedrux said in Requirements to have a 1000x1000 aluminium build plate:
At 1sq meter maybe plywood and a coating of self-leveling cement? Embed a floor heating coil in the cement?
I like the idea! How flat would that cement be?
So long as you use the right 'cement', good enough for NASA.
Seriously, self-leveling compounds are used to make large reference surfaces and can be flat to unreasonable numbers of decimal places.
There's a ton of information out there. Look at polymer concrete and epoxy granite. Both are cheap and if done for a self-leveling finish, can be very very flat.
Just needs to be the right material and finished in the right way (materials that shrink are not going to produce a level surface).
