Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer
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This printer reminds me of concept cars. More a demonstration of ideas and capabilities rather than a solid and practical design for mass production. Will see next year how it will end up.
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@o_lampe said in Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer:
They had to do something different
@zapta said in Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer:
This printer reminds me of concept cars.
The heatsink with inbuild load cell falls in the same category. Strain gauge and Piezo sensors were already there, something different had to be made...
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I don't get the multi zone heated bed. I suppose having smaller "pads" with expansion joints in between would prevent warping due to thermal expansion, but using a kinematic mount is a lot simpler. Then how are the individual pads heated? Presumably each one has its own heater and so each one would need its own temperature sensor. That's a lot of sensors, MOSFETS, and wiring. The build surface would need to be thermally conductive which means that heat will conduct up into the build surface where there are heaters, but equally, heat will conduct down from the build surface where there are no heaters. It seems like a lot of complexity for very little gain.
And if you going to charge circa 3k for a machine, why not build the thing properly instead of using firmware to calibrate out all the build and design flaws?
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@deckingman said in Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer:
I don't get the multi zone heated bed
Green washing?
Hobbyists, printing tug boats, spiral vases, x-mas ornaments or other useless stuff might feel better with a printer using less energy.
(I count myself in. The only useful? stuff I print are parts for new printers)//edit Sorry, I'm in foul mood lately...Winter is coming
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i guess prusa learned from their mistake with the dual drive gear . Its causing more issues then its supposed to solve .
I agree that 2 idler wheels will probably cause issues with flexible filaments , maybe there is something i don't see , don't know . -
The multi zone heater system with expansion joints is a big question mark for me as well. I don't quite get the expansion joint theory .... isn't the bed a single piece? How does the expansion joint on the heater help to get a stable bed? Seems to me you would still need a kinematic mount for the bed or else live with the results of expansion of the build surface.
How do individual heaters help if the bed is a big heat conductor unless it is fairly thin?
I can understand multiple heaters on a giant build surface but we are not talking 'giant' here.
Many questions ... -
@jens55 Methinks it's just a marketing ploy. It'll likely be trumpeted as an innovation but that doesn't mean it's of any use. Just like sensor less homing. The real reason for that is to save Prusa the cost of a switch and an bit of wire on all their machines. The fact that it will never be as reliable or repeatable as a simple switch is irrelevant. To many people, the very fact that Prusa uses it must mean it's the dog's danglies.
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Lacks a 3 post leveling. A pretty basic feature.
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3dprintingnerd has a video on YouTube that shows the bed a bit better. It's basically individual pcb heaters with their own thermistors hooked up to a central "hub" that's under the bed. It also allowed things like segmented heating, hotspot measurement and compensation and heating only specific areas of the bed.
It's a pretty neat concept, albeit a complex one.
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@roiki11 Too complex if you ask me. Imagine having to troubleshoot and maintain 16 heaters and thermistors. It's also 16 potential fire sources. They should have gone with max 4.
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@techni said in Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer:
@roiki11 Too complex if you ask me. Imagine having to troubleshoot and maintain 16 heaters and thermistors.
Well, at least they didn't include a per segment independent leveling.
Reminds me of this Unnecessary Invention https://youtu.be/NvyMAfeoDOs?t=268
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@o_lampe said in Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer:
The heatsink with inbuild load cell falls in the same category. Strain gauge and Piezo sensors were already there, something different had to be made...
A load cell is a device based on a strain gauge, isn't it? I'm not sure that a strain gauge can be used without mounting it onto a load cell of some sort...
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@jens55 said in Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer:
How do individual heaters help if the bed is a big heat conductor unless it is fairly thin?
It is fairly thin. The video shows very clearly that the ordinary magnetic flexible bed goes onto the heater panels. It's thin.
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@deckingman said in Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer:
The real reason for that is to save Prusa the cost of a switch and an bit of wire on all their machines
I think that you're being unnecessarily grumpy.
A simple switch is simple, sure, but it is likely much cheaper than a load cell. The load cell arrangement measures (analog) more and different than a switch. For example, Prusa says that the load cell allows them to detect changes in the extrusion pressure and thus they expect to be able to not only detect clogs, but to detect them in advance.
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@techni said in Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer:
Imagine having to troubleshoot and maintain 16 heaters and thermistors.
Surely the software will be able to report any problems with individual heaters and sensors and so troubleshooting will not be difficult.
I have not had any problem with a bed heater or sensor on my 8 year old printer, or on my one year old printer. Are they common on a printer with proper wire strain control?
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@mjlew said in Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer:
@deckingman said in Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer:
The real reason for that is to save Prusa the cost of a switch and an bit of wire on all their machines
I think that you're being unnecessarily grumpy.
True - but at my age, I'm entitled to be grumpy
A simple switch is simple, sure, but it is likely much cheaper than a load cell. The load cell arrangement measures (analog) more and different than a switch. For example, Prusa says that the load cell allows them to detect changes in the extrusion pressure and thus they expect to be able to not only detect clogs, but to detect them in advance.
You are conflating two different things by selectively snipping a part of my post to try and make it appear that I said something that I did not. I made no mention of load cells, nor did I make any mention of extruders, extrusion pressure, or anything related to the extrusion system. What I did say was quote ......(the important words that you omitted are in bold)
" Just like sensor less homing. The real reason for that is to save Prusa the cost of a switch and an bit of wire on all their machines."
Sensor less homing is exactly that - it uses no sensors - load cells or otherwise for homing the printer. Given that sensor less homing relies on motor stall detection, which can be affected by temperature and other factors, I stand by my comment that it will never be as reliable or repeatable as a simple switch and so the only reason why one would want to use it is to save cost ( and a small cost at that).
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@deckingman OK, I see that now. Sorry.
Your post was just saying in general that Prusa gets more kudos than they may deserve, whereas I read it as if it was saying something specific about the new printer.
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@deckingman said in Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer:
True - but at my age, I'm entitled to be grumpy
There is a great documentary on this topic: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107050/
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@hackinistrator said in Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer:
I agree that 2 idler wheels will probably cause issues with flexible filaments , maybe there is something i don't see
The idler wheels should be coupled by gears for flexible filament, but it would require a third gear to make them run in the same direction.
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@mjlew said in Prusa new kitchen sink XL printer:
I'm not sure that a strain gauge can be used without mounting it onto a load cell
See the Duet3d Smart Effector, it has a strain gauge built into the PCB. Sadly, they never made an inline version to mount it between extruder and heatsink.
