Out of Sync for sync motors (same Axis)

jay_s_uk

@maor3degem-co-il you'll have to give us some more hints. Firmware version? Hardware?
You'll have to give more an overview about the machine as your picture shows a tilted bed and yet you only have 1 Z motor defined...

maor3degem.co.il

@jay_s_uk
Board: Duet 2 WiFi (2WiFi)
Firmware: RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet 3.3 (2021-06-15)
Duet WiFi Server Version: 1.26

we did define 4/2 Z motor, depending on a specific machine
M584 X3 Y1:2 Z5:7:8:9 E4:0

jay_s_uk

@maor3degem-co-il best to update to 3.5.2 then. and post a config for the actual machine with the issue

maor3degem.co.il

@jay_s_uk config (1).g

jay_s_uk

This post is deleted!

jay_s_uk

@maor3degem-co-il best update the firmware and try again
then if it happens again, grab an M122 output after the occurance

maor3degem.co.il

@jay_s_uk
thanks
will do so and keep you posted

maor3degem.co.il

@jay_s_uk
Here is again, 3 pairs of motor are out of sync.
config.g M122.txt Vid.mp4

this is with the latest FW version 3.5.2

please advise

Maestro

@maor3degem-co-il

Any macros being called during the print? Anything running in daemon.g?

In your first post's video the right-hand motor looks to be turning 16x faster than the left, so, that's no random number. Wonder if code is being called somewhere that is changing your microstepping or steps/mm?

maor3degem.co.il

@Maestro
I alsothought this could be,
but. this 2 motor define as the same axis. so cannot be done.
and also I check the m350 and it remain OK as define in the config

droftarts

@maor3degem-co-il Sorry you are having issues. I notice that the failing axes are usually plugged in to the DueX board. In your first crash it was Z that lost sync, when the following was defined:

M584 X3 Y1:2 Z5:7:8:9 E4:0

In the second, it looks like X lost sync, and dropped on the Z axis that knocked the bed out of level. Were the Z motors also turning at different speeds? The M584 was:

M584 X5:6:7:8 Y3 Z2:1 E4:9

As you have been using quite old firmware, and this has not been reported before, we do not think this is a firmware bug. Most likely is interference on the ribbon cable, that carries the SPI commands that set up the drivers, as well as controlling them. It could also be due to a poor earth wire between the Duet and Duex, causing ground issues on ribbon cable between the two boards.

Please check the following:

Check there are no other wires running close to or across the ribbon cable between the Duet and Duex. Ribbon cables are quite susceptible to interference; wrapping them in foil can help, but better to remove any close source of interference.
Check that the DueX board is properly grounded. See https://docs.duet3d.com/Duet3D_hardware/Duet_2_family/DueX2_and_DueX5#power-wiring

If that doesn't help, please take a picture and post it, showing how your Duet and DueX boards are wired.

Ian

maor3degem.co.il

@droftarts Hi
thanks for your help,
in the second, the Z motor also turning different length , the same symptom as with the X axis. and the Z connected to the main board...

in addition we face this problem with a few machines we have (5) and it is occur also in the main boards drivers.

please advice what else can help us to solve this problems

Regards
Maor

droftarts

@maor3degem-co-il said in Out of Sync for sync motors (same Axis):

in the second, the Z motor also turning different length , the same symptom as with the X axis. and the Z connected to the main board

It is possible interference on the SPI bus via the ribbon cable, or poor ground between the Duet and DueX, could affect the drivers on the main board as well. Please look at my previous message for advice. Please post a picture of the wiring if that doesn't help.

in addition we face this problem with a few machines we have (5) and it is occur also in the main boards drivers.

Maybe they are all wired the same way? What is different about these 5 machines compared to the other 15?

please advice what else can help us to solve this problems

At the moment, I don't have any other theory about what is wrong based on the information you have give, or I'd tell you.

Ian

maor3degem.co.il

@maor3degem-co-il
we have 15 machine that look pretty much the same.
we used them for 4 years without any problem like this,
this start happen in the last 4 months...

can heavy dust cause this?

droftarts

@maor3degem-co-il I also note on your last image there is an error on the PanelDue:

I think this says "Driver 3 error: Phase A short to ground phase B short to ground". Is that correct? Did the Y axis wires cut when the carriage fell?

can heavy dust cause this?

Do you mean on the Duet boards, or on the mechanical components? However, I don't think either would cause these kind of problems, because something is causing the configuration of the driver chip to change without the firmware knowing. Though it wouldn't hurt to use compressed air to clean off the boards, if there's a lot of dust on the boards. If there's dust in the mechanics, I'd expect skipped steps rather than a change in the driver configuration.

After 4 years, it's probably time to check/replace wiring, check contact especially in screw terminals, etc.

Ian

maor3degem.co.il

@droftarts
The driver error is due to the carriage fall cut the wire.

by the way, the machine is on pause right now and I can see the problem of the motors. if I will restart the machine the problem will go a way till next time.

and before restart the is no evidence of changing in the configuration

maor3degem.co.il

@Maestro
I double checked it and
the motor doesn't move 1/16 cycles than the other
both motors are define in the same axis so it is impossible to define different micro stepping for each motor. and when I typed M584 the machine return 1:16 micro stepping for those X axis drivers/motors

Regards
Maor

maor3degem.co.il

@maor3degem-co-il @Maestro
I double checked it and
the motor doesn't move 1/16 cycles than the other
both motors are define in the same axis so it is impossible to define different micro stepping for each motor. and when I typed M584 the machine return 1:16 micro stepping for those X axis drivers/motors

Regards
Maor

Maestro

@maor3degem-co-il
I'm not sure what you mean by "the motor doesn't move 1/16 cycles than the other"? Irrespective of whatever values are read from firmware or anywhere else, that first video you loaded shows one motor moving 1/16 the speed of the other, at least within the resolution of the video to quantify.

Even it if is not possible to deliberately set different microstepping for 2 motors on the same axis in the firmware, that doesn't negate @droftarts's point that the drivers themselves could potentially decide that they've been given a different value due to noisy instruction sets.

droftarts

@maor3degem-co-il Sorry you are continuing to have issues.

To reiterate, I believe the problem is caused by the interference on the SPI bus causing one or more stepper drivers to reset its configuration, usually on the Duex, independently of the firmware. I think there are three possible reasons for this:

Interference caused by poor grounding between Duet and Duex boards, causing a potential difference in signalling on the SPI bus. Check/replace the grounding between the Duet and Duex, as described here https://docs.duet3d.com/Duet3D_hardware/Duet_2_family/DueX2_and_DueX5#power-wiring. Check for good contact of power and ground wires, especially in screw terminals.
Interference caused by other wires. Check there are no other wires running close to or across the ribbon cable between the Duet and Duex. Ribbon cables are quite susceptible to interference; wrapping them in foil can help, but better to remove any close source of interference.
Interference caused by ESD (Electro Static Discharge). You mentioned dust in the environment. Is it a particularly low humidity time of year? This could cause more static shocks that usual. How is the rest of the machine grounded? Is the hot end grounded (we recommend doing this)? Have you changed to a different type of filament that may be more susceptible to static build up?

As I asked before, please post pictures of the wiring cabinet, and the wiring around the Duet and Duex in particular.

Ian