Sovol SV08 Multiple Motion System Upgrade.

dwuk3d

@o_lampe said in Sovol SV08 Multiple Motion System Upgrade.:

Rc-car servo savers

Thanks - are you suggesting having this attached to a non geared stepper motor, or a servo or somehow attaching it to the lead screw to translate big linear movements into smaller more powerful ones?

The final Nema8 I ordered just arrived and its a non lead screw 34 high vs most of the others which were 24 - so hopefully a bit more powerful.

The Lead Screw Nema 11 still seems to be working quite well in my probing and Z offset tests - but haven't actually tried doing some proper printing with lots of Z Hopping yet. It is noticeably quicker than the tiny linear stepper that I had on the other axis - and I think will end up being quicker the geared belt driven Z Axis of the SV08

The good news with my current 3 rather than 4 headed next step is at least it means one less Z hopper motor to buy.

Shame I bought the 4th Extruder/ 1LC board and 2nd Mini5 - as I think I might be able to get away with the 16 drivers available on the 6HC, Mini5+, plus 3x1LC

Glad I haven't done to termination removal drill out on the Mini5+ board yet.

dwuk3d

Work progressing on dual colour printing - example of auto alignment (it looked fairly good on the camera so I didn't adjust it at all).
Screenshot 2025-04-05 at 13.43.50.png

Also made an extremely useful discovery about pre-heating - Orca Slicer (and probably PrusaSlicer and Bambu Studio supports it).

Example below with 2 seconds specified. - see 5th line down.

This will be very useful - because I can fairly easily change the G10 Pre-heats to be a macro call with a post processor - which can they do:

More intelligent pre-heating based on the actual amount the inactive extruder has cooled - perhaps with some feedback to see how long it actually takes to reheat.
Do the priming in parallel - so that as soon as in this example T0 has completed T1 can then start immediately printing - with hopefully almost no delay.

G1 X131.54 Y141.994 E.34619
G1 X131.54 Y142.652 E.02497
M73 P23 R1
G1 X137.336 Y148.448 E.31089
G10 S220 P1 ; preheat T1 time: 2s
G1 X136.677 Y148.448 E.02497
G1 X131.54 Y143.31 E.27558
G1 X131.54 Y143.968 E.02497
G1 X136.019 Y148.448 E.24028
G1 X135.361 Y148.448 E.02497
G1 X131.54 Y144.627 E.20497
M73 P24 R1
G1 X131.54 Y145.285 E.02497
G1 X134.703 Y148.448 E.16966
G1 X134.044 Y148.448 E.02497
G1 X131.54 Y145.943 E.13436
G1 X131.54 Y146.601 E.02497
G1 X133.386 Y148.448 E.09905
G1 X132.728 Y148.448 E.02497
M73 P25 R1
G1 X131.54 Y147.259 E.06375
G1 X131.54 Y147.918 E.02497
G1 X132.275 Y148.654 E.03947
; stop printing object Cube id:0 copy 0
; printing object Cube id:1 copy 0
; stop printing object Cube id:1 copy 0
G10 ; retract
; filament end gcode 
M106 P3 S0
G10 S215 P0 ; set nozzle temperature ;cooldown
;M98 P"0:/macros/changeFilament.g" A previous_extruder  B new_filament_temp  L layer_num  N next_extruder   F first_layer_temperature1

M98 P"0:/macros/changeFilament.g" A0 B220 L0  N1  F220 


M106 S0
T1
; Filament gcode
G10 S220 P1 ; set nozzle temperature

dwuk3d

Simple post processing script created

#!/usr/bin/python3

# preheat - simple script to change all G10 & G11 commands to .1 versions - so that they run a Macro in RRF

# Based on example from Bobs Notebook. - https://projects.ttlexceeded.com/3dprinting_prusaslicer_post-processing.html


import sys
import re
import os




sourceFile=sys.argv[1]

# Read the ENTIRE g-code file into memory
with open(sourceFile, "r") as f:
    lines = f.readlines()

destFile = sourceFile
os.rename(sourceFile,sourceFile+".preheat.bak")

count = 0

with open(destFile, "w") as of:
    for lIndex in range(len(lines)):
        oline = lines[lIndex]
        # Parse gcode line
        
        if oline.startswith("G10 ") and "X0 " not in oline:
            oline = oline.replace("G10 ","G10.1 ")
            if "preheat" in oline:
                oline = oline.replace("G10.1 ","G10.1 Q1 ")
            count += 1
            
            of.write(oline);
        elif oline.startswith("G11 "):
            oline = oline.replace("G11 ","G11.1 ")
            count += 1
            
            of.write(oline);
       
        else:
            # Write original line       
            of.write(oline)
            
    of.write(";****\n;****preheat " + str(count) + " lines changed\n") 
of.close()
f.close()

Screenshot 2025-04-05 at 14.27.24.png

Results - changing G10's all to G10.1 (except G10's with lots of AXIS parameters in).

M73 P23 R1
G1 X137.336 Y148.448 E.31089
G10.1 Q1 S220 P1 ; preheat T1 time: 2s
G1 X136.677 Y148.448 E.02497
G1 X131.54 Y143.31 E.27558
G1 X131.54 Y143.968 E.02497
G1 X136.019 Y148.448 E.24028
G1 X135.361 Y148.448 E.02497
G1 X131.54 Y144.627 E.20497
M73 P24 R1
G1 X131.54 Y145.285 E.02497
G1 X134.703 Y148.448 E.16966
G1 X134.044 Y148.448 E.02497
G1 X131.54 Y145.943 E.13436
G1 X131.54 Y146.601 E.02497
G1 X133.386 Y148.448 E.09905
G1 X132.728 Y148.448 E.02497
M73 P25 R1
G1 X131.54 Y147.259 E.06375
G1 X131.54 Y147.918 E.02497
G1 X132.275 Y148.654 E.03947
; stop printing object Cube id:0 copy 0
; printing object Cube id:1 copy 0
; stop printing object Cube id:1 copy 0
G10.1 ; retract
; filament end gcode 
M106 P3 S0
G10.1 S215 P0 ; set nozzle temperature ;cooldown
;M98 P"0:/macros/changeFilament.g" A previous_extruder  B new_filament_temp  L layer_num  N next_extruder   F first_layer_temperature1

M98 P"0:/macros/changeFilament.g" A0 B220 L0  N1  F220 


M106 S0
T1
; Filament gcode



....

;****preheat 21 lines changed

Now I just need to write the G10.1.g macro - to do the preheating and parallel priming.

dwuk3d

Parallel colour changes more or less working.

I used Orca Slicer to send 17 second pre-heating G10's

The preheat G10 comes in the opposite motion system to the one that needs the colour change to kick off.

So I used a loop within the next motion system to wait for the target temperature to change.- by checking heat.heaters[].active, and checking for temperature reached by looping around and checking sensors.analog[].lastReading.

Then once temperature reached I kicked off the priming, and then have a M598 just after the priming, but before the printing - so that the printer waits until the other motion system has finished it's work - before starting with the new colour.

The eventual aim would be to tune the preheat, and introduce a precisely timed delay so that the priming of the next colour finishes exactly when the other colour finishes.

For the SV08 heaters will need a longer preheat period - and will change the preheat to a tiny amount - so that I can pick up the change.
Will then depending on the current temperature either wait a bit, or kick of preheating straight away - with the heat up time calculated to leave exactly enough time for priming to be completed at exactly the same time as the other colour finishes printing.,
so that ideally the M598 at the end is pretty much instant.

NB/. This way of working is only for small multi colour / multi material models. For bigger objects, where there is room on the print bed for both print heads to be printing at the same time, much more use of the RRF Multi Motion System capabilities will be made.

Short demo video here
https://youtu.be/Qn1SG_vc8X8

dwuk3d

Better demo of parallel colour/material changes - some changes as quick as 2 seconds.

Still more work to do - but synchronisation getting closer.

Using preheat G10's to kicking off the Pre Heat, delay, final heat, priming, tool change.

Demo here.

https://youtu.be/uk7KTCqrujg

Tool change macro getting pretty complicated....

;changeFilament.g
;M98 P"0:/macros/changeFilament.g" A{previous_extruder} B{new_filament_temp} L{layer_num} F{first_layer_temperature} N{next_extruder} H{first_layer_height}
echo {state.thisInput},"changeFilament"



if exists(global.primeLayer) == false
    global primeLayer = {-2,-2}

;if exists(param.A) && param.A == 0
;    M98.1 A"parkXY.g"

;if exists(param.A) && param.A == 1
   ; M98.1 A"parkUV.g"

if exists(param.H)
    G1 Z{param.H} F500

if exists(param.N) && param.N == 0
    
    M596.1 P1
    T0
    echo {state.thisInput},"step 0 - wait for 200",{sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading}
    while heat.heaters[1].active < 200
        G4 P500
        ;echo {state.thisInput},"step 0 - wait for 200",{sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading}

    ;echo {state.thisInput},"M116 P1 from ",{sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading}," to 200"
    ;var start = state.upTime
    ;M116 P{param.N}
    ;echo {state.thisInput},"step 1 heat up time",{floor(state.upTime-var.start)},"s"

    ;**** Calculate delay
    var delayT = global.preHeatT  
    echo {state.thisInput},"delayT initial",var.delayT
    if exists(param.L) && param.L <= 0
        if global.primeLayer[param.N] < param.L 
            set var.delayT = var.delayT - global.primeTime0*2
        
    if exists(param.L) && param.L > 0 && global.primeLayer[param.N] < param.L
         set var.delayT = var.delayT - global.primeTime0

    echo {state.thisInput},"delayT with prime",var.delayT

    ; post delay heatup
    var lastR = sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading
    if var.lastR < 200
        set var.delayT = var.delayT - ((220-200)/global.degSec)
        if (200-var.lastR)/global.degSec > var.delayT
            set var.delayT = var.delayT - ((200-var.lastR)/global.degSec - var.delayT)

    echo {state.thisInput},"delayT with heatup",var.delayT
    ;set var.delayT = var.delayT - 1


    if var.delayT <= 0 
        echo {state.thisInput},"SYNC not enough time to parallel tool change",floor(-var.delayT*10+0.5)/10,"secs short"
    else
        if  heat.heaters[2].active < 200
            echo {state.thisInput},"SYNC - other motion system not active - so no need to wait"
        else
            echo {state.thisInput},"SYNC - wait for",floor(var.delayT*10+0.5)/10,"secs"
            G4 P{floor(var.delayT*1000)}
        

    M568 P0 S220 R220
    ;echo {state.thisInput},"heat up step2"
    var start = state.upTime+state.msUpTime/1000
    var startReading = sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading
    echo {state.thisInput},"M116 P0 from ",{sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading}," to 220"
    M116 P0

    var delayFurther = false
    if heat.heaters[2].active > 199
        set var.delayFurther = true
   
    while sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading < 219
        M568 P0 S220 R220
        G4 P500
    echo {state.thisInput},"step2 heat up time",{(state.upTime+state.msUpTime/1000-var.start)},"s",{sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading},"temp",{(sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading-var.startReading)/(state.upTime+state.msUpTime/1000-var.start)},"deg/sec"
    if exists(param.L) && param.L <= 0
        if global.primeLayer[param.N] < param.L
            M98.1 A"clean T0"
            M801 X40 Y5 T0 S10  ; Prime
            M801 X40 Y5 T0 S10 ; Prime
            set global.primeLayer[param.N] =  param.L
    if exists(param.L) && param.L > 0 && global.primeLayer[param.N] < param.L
        M801 X40 Y5 T0 S10 ; Prime
        set global.primeLayer[param.N] =  param.L


    set global.T0Clean = false
    var timeC = state.upTime+state.msUpTime/1000
    while global.uvParked = false ; move.axes[4].machinePosition <290
        G4 P500
        M400
    echo {state.thisInput},"Waited for uv to be parked ",{state.upTime+state.msUpTime/1000-var.timeC},"secs"


    set global.xyParked = false
    echo {state.thisInput},"finished changeFilament"

if exists(param.N) && param.N == 1
    
    M596.1 P0
    T1
    
    echo {state.thisInput},"step 0 - wait for 200",{sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading}
    while heat.heaters[2].active < 200
        G4 P500
        ;echo {state.thisInput},"step 0 - wait for 200",{sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading}

    ;echo {state.thisInput},"M116 P1 from ",{sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading}," to 200"
    ;var start = state.upTime
    ;M116 P{param.N}
    ;echo {state.thisInput},"step 1 heat up time",{floor(state.upTime-var.start)},"s"
     ;**** Calculate delay
    var delayT = global.preHeatT 
    echo {state.thisInput},"delayT initial",var.delayT
    if exists(param.L) && param.L <= 0
        if global.primeLayer[param.N] < param.L 
            set var.delayT = var.delayT - global.primeTime1*2
        
    if exists(param.L) && param.L > 0 && global.primeLayer[param.N] < param.L
         set var.delayT = var.delayT - global.primeTime1
    echo {state.thisInput},"delayT with prime",var.delayT
    ; post delay heatup
    var lastR = sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading
    if var.lastR < 200
        set var.delayT = var.delayT - ((220-200)/global.degSec)
        if (200-var.lastR)/global.degSec > var.delayT
            set var.delayT = var.delayT - ((200-var.lastR)/global.degSec - var.delayT)
    echo {state.thisInput},"delayT with heatup",var.delayT

    ;set var.delayT = var.delayT - 1


    if var.delayT <= 0 
        echo {state.thisInput},"SYNC not enough time to parallel tool change",-var.delayT,"secs short"
    else
        if  heat.heaters[2].active < 200
            echo {state.thisInput},"SYNC - other motion system not active - so no need to wait"
        else
            echo {state.thisInput},"SYNC - wait for",var.delayT,"secs"
            G4 P{floor(var.delayT*1000)}


    M568 P1 S220 R220
    ;echo {state.thisInput},"heat up step2"
    var start = state.upTime+state.msUpTime/1000
    var startReading = sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading
    echo {state.thisInput},"M116 P1 from ",{sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading}," to 220"
    M116 P1
    
    while sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading < 220
        M568 P1 S220 R220
        G4 P500
    echo {state.thisInput},"step2 heat up time",{(state.upTime+state.msUpTime/1000-var.start)},"s",{sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading},"temp",{(sensors.analog[param.N+1].lastReading-var.startReading)/(state.upTime+state.msUpTime/1000-var.start)},"deg/sec"

    var delayFurther = false
    if heat.heaters[1].active > 199
        set var.delayFurther = true


    if exists(param.L) && param.L <= 0

        
        if global.primeLayer[param.N] < param.L
            M98.1 A"clean T1"
            T1
            M801 U50 V315 T1 S10 ; Prime
            M801 U50 V315 T1 S10 ; Prime
            set global.primeLayer[param.N] =  param.L

    if exists(param.L) && param.L > 0 && global.primeLayer[param.N] < param.L
        M801 U50 V315 T1 S10 ; Prime
        set global.primeLayer[param.N] =  param.L




    set global.T1Clean = false
    var timeC = state.upTime+state.msUpTime/1000

    ;echo {state.thisInput},"M598 started"
    ;M598
    ;M400
    ;echo {state.thisInput},"M598 waited for ",{state.upTime+state.msUpTime/1000-var.timeC},"secs"
    set var.timeC = state.upTime+state.msUpTime/1000
    while global.xyParked = false ; move.axes[1].machinePosition > 25
        G4 P500
        M400
    echo {state.thisInput},"waited for xy to be parked ",{state.upTime+state.msUpTime/1000-var.timeC},"secs"

    set global.uvParked = false


    echo {state.thisInput},"finished changeFilament"

dwuk3d

Test post

<table>
<thead>
<tr>
<th>Header</th>
<th>Another Header</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>field 1</td>
<td>value one</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>

# * ~~bolded text~~

droftarts

@dwuk3d You can't do html tables in the forum, but you can do markdown tables, eg the following text:

| Column 1      | Column 2      |
| ------------- | ------------- |
| Cell 1, Row 1 | Cell 2, Row 1 |
| Cell 1, Row 2 | Cell 1, Row 2 |

creates this:

Column 1	Column 2
Cell 1, Row 1	Cell 2, Row 1
Cell 1, Row 2	Cell 1, Row 2

Ian

dwuk3d

@droftarts Great thanks - couldn't find that in the documentation.

That makes things really easy - as I can just copy a table over from the TeachingTech discourse where I have started to build it up- might put this in a separate thread - but I am trying to build up a list of different colour changer options - mainly to compare them with my solution.

Re my Dual Gantry timings - I think if I change the polling frequency down from about 0.05 seconds, and kick off my tool move within about 0.06 seconds of the parking move of the other tool then I can get my tool changes down to about 0.1 secs.

Multi Colour/Filament Solution Comparison

Tool	Timing	Link	Waste	Reliability (DW view)	Colours	Multi Material	Base printer speed (DW view)	Parent
Mosaic Palette 2/3	~ 90 s	2020	H	L	4-8		1	None
X1C AMS + Flush into object	~ 120 s	2023	L	H	4-16		7	MMU2
X1C AMS - off bed flushing	~ 90 s	2023	H	H	4-16		8	MMU2
X1C AMS no prime tower	~90 s	2023	H	M	4-16		8	MMU2
A1 AMS Lite- off bed flushing	~90 s	2023	H	H	4		7	MMU1
Creality K2plus CFS	~90 s	2025	H	M	4-16		9	AMS
Other X1C AMS clones	~90 s	2025	H	M	4-16			AMS
Box Turtle	~ 75 s	2024	H	M	4			AMS
Klipper OpenAMS - BL AMS electronics upgrade	~90 s	2024	H	M	4			AMS
ERCF	~ 80 s	2023	H	L	4-16		8	MMU2
TriColourMendel	10s - 60s	2013	L	M	3	3	1	None
Prusa MMU1	~70 s	2016	H	L	4		4	None
Prusa MMU2	~70 s	2018	H	L	5		4	MMU1
Ryper MMU2 Clone	~70s	2022	H	L	10		6	MMU2
Prusa MMU3	~70 s	2023	H	M	5		6	MMU2
PICO MMU	~70 s	2024	H	M	4		6	MMU2
CoPrint Chroma AMS Lite Type Addon	~60 s	2024	H	M	4-16			AMS Lite
3d Chameleon AMS Lite type add-on	~ 60s	2023	H	M	4+			MMU2
Other 3rd party AMS/3rd party offerings	~90s		H	L				AMS
Filament Star rotating toolchanger	~60 s	2023	H	L	4+	Y
TeachingTech SV08 Stealth changer	~ 60 s	2025	L	M	6-8	Y	8	E3D
Misschanger Stealthchanger	~ 40 s	2025	L	M	6-8	Y		E3D
H2D AMS2 pro	~ 90 s	2025	H	H	4-28	2	8	AMS
H2D between nozzles	~ 26 s	2025	L	H	4-28	2	8	AMS + DualX
E3D toolchanger	~ 30 s	2021	L	M	2-5	Y		None
Prusa XL	~ 14 s	2024	L	H	2-5	Y	6	E3D
Nozzle changer (engineers grow)	~ 20 s	2024	L	M	2-10	Y		XL + Swapper3d
Nozzle changer (Matti / @mvaar)	~ 20 s	2024	L	M	2-10	Y		XL + Swapper3d
Virtual Colours Hueforge etc	Any	2020 2022 2023	L	H	20+	N/A	Any	Lithopane
PolyDye - That inkjet colouring thing you featured on an ender printer.	~? s	2024	L	M	infinite		3
Flashforge CJ270 Full Colour Resin Printer	~?s	2024 2026	L	H	Infinite	N/A	7 - 2.5mm/hour
EufyMake E1 UV printer	~?s	2025	L	H	Infinite	N/A	5mm Max Height
Bigbrains3d Swapper3d nozzle changer	~ 90 s	2023	H	M	2-20	Y	3	MMU2
Bondtech INDX	12-17 s	2025	L	H	2-10+	Y		XL + Swapper3d
Conventional IDEX (with and without preheat)	~ 10 s - 60s	2018	L	H	2	2	5
Conventional IDEX with box turtle on each toolhead (or ratrig IDEX/RMMU)	~10s - 90s	2021	H	M	5-8	2
Ratrig Toolshift IDEX - without priming	<1 s - 10s	2024	L	M	2	2	8	IDEX
Nathan Builds Robots 4 headed rotary printer	< 10s	2024	L	M	4	Y	15+
ukdw3d SV08 - Dual Gantry RRF parallel Bondtech INDX e	< 0.5s - 17s	2026	L	M	11+	Y	15+	INDX
ukdw3d SV08 - Dual gantry/dual IDEX RRF	<0.5 s - 10s	2025	L	M	4	Y	15+	IDEX + Dueling Zero

dwuk3d

Been dusting off some maths knowledge today to try and more accurately position my print head over the top of the camera after auto aligning with the ball probe.

Firstly used a few captured nozzle probe and manually aligned readings, plus some measurements of the distance of the probe and camera from the servo pivot point to try and work out the XY coordinates of the servo pivot point.

With a bit of trial and error I found some numbers that worked

Then wrote this macro to calculate the camera position from ball probed UV coordinates - really please to see SIN/COS/ASIN/ACOS functions available...

;cameraFromUV.g

M98 P"0:/macros/ParkXY.g"




;probe U 251.3187 offset U -13.6500092 probe V 202.1375 offset V 41.20003
;probe U 251.0562 offset U -14.2998352 probe V 199.4344 offset V 41.00005
;probe U 250.8687 offset U -14.7497253 probe V 197.4219 offset V 40.84999
;probe U 250.8938 offset U -14.6997528 probe V 197.5125 offset V 40.85002
;probe U 250.8000 offset U -15.0500336 probe V 196.2250 offset V 40.80002
;probe U 250.9875 offset U -14.4999847 probe V 198.0063 offset V 40.89999
;



;G1 U251.4 V202.8 F10000
var uPos = global.ballProbeU+14.5
var vPos = global.ballProbeV-40.9

var servoX = 427.9
var servoY = 188.3
var probePosRadius = 177
var cameraPosRadius = 165
var cameraOffsetAngle = 14

var probeAngle = degrees(asin((global.ballProbeV-var.servoY)/var.probePosRadius))

if var.probeAngle < 90
    set var.probeAngle = 180 - var.probeAngle

var cameraX = var.servoX + var.cameraPosRadius * cos(radians(var.probeAngle+var.cameraOffsetAngle))
var cameraY = var.servoY + var.cameraPosRadius * sin(radians(var.probeAngle+var.cameraOffsetAngle))


echo "U",global.ballProbeU,"V",global.ballProbeV,"angle",var.probeAngle,"cX",var.cameraX,"cY",var.cameraY

if var.cameraX > 200 && var.cameraX < 300 && var.cameraY > 140 && var.cameraY < 200
    set var.uPos = var.cameraX
    set var.vPos = var.cameraY
else
    abort "cameraFromUV.g - suspect camera calculations"
    

if exists(global.savedU) == false
    global savedU = -1
    global savedV = -1

set global.savedU = var.uPos
set global.savedV = var.vPos






G1 U{var.uPos} V{var.vPos}  F10000

if exists(global.servo5Off) && global.servo5Off > 0
    set global.servo5Off = state.upTime + 120
if exists(global.magnetOff) && global.magnetOff > 0
    set global.magnetOff = state.upTime + 120

results pretty good - all photos are auto alignment and direct move to the camera

Notice the benefits of a camera over a ball probe in first photo - where the ball probe misaligned due to dirty nozzle.

UV

XY after cleaning

dwuk3d

Sub second tool change demo.

o_lampe

@dwuk3d As long as the belts along the crossbeam aren't aligned properly you won't see accurate positions anywhere else on the bed.
But it's good to have the theory behind alignement solved.

dwuk3d

@o_lampe yes - probably need to properly align belts in next stage.

I'm also thinking of trying the probe at some different angles to see whether the alignments of the two gantries are the same with the probe at different places on the bed.

I quite like the look of the new BambuLab H2D special alignment print bed - using camera's on the print head to read tiny qr codes at pre determined places.

dwuk3d

Made a start on IDEX motor and pulley mount (above side gantry supports) - will hold the idler at the back from the top took and introduce a tensioning system.

Zip Ties just temporary until I have the new top of gantry belt coupling.

Will have a mirror of the motor mount and idler on the other side.

The new motors at the front on each side will take over the Y axis movement - with the existing X & Y used for one print head each on the rear gantry.

Also tidied up extruders a bit and created top cover for 1LC boards.

dwuk3d

starting to think about my occasionally moving bed phase.

My original idea for an occasionally moving bed was to allow for the printing of longer thin objects.

But my experience of even printing fairly small object is that the area where both print heads can access without hitting each other is quite restricted - so I think even the current size 350x350 bed moving maybe only 150mm would give some quite big benefits with very little overhang outside of the main printer body.

I think though that I want to go to 350 x 500 or even 350 x 550 - so that when parked the bed still fits nicely within the main printer size - but also allows for ships like the one shown (at 1:500 scale model) to be printed in one go.

Another interesting concept when thinking about ships - is the bow - which overhangs - that doesn't need a build plate under it - so would be an interesting concept having a print going completely beyond the build surface.

o_lampe

@dwuk3d In the end we'll see a conveyor belt bed with dozends of tools heads zipping around simultaneously...
But seriously: you could do the same split_the object_trick in a big scale manner.

Build two independent printers with 4 heads each
place them above the looong conveyor belt with a certain gap
print parts 1 + 3
move the belt and print part 2 + 4
move back and repeat

dwuk3d

My response to Advantages and disadvantages of Dual Gantry over IDEX and Tool changers as asked by @MostlyMessingAbout

Advantages of Dual Gantry over IDEX

Additional degree of freedom in Y Axis - allows for parallel printing of different shaped parts or whole objects (if independent Z hopping also available). - up to doubling print speeds.
Allows Parallel priming and wiping during tool changes - which can push tool change times from >10 seconds down to <1 second
Only having one head on each gantry means faster speeds possible in the Y direction in particular - which can be an issue with IDEX
When used in combination with IDEX can allow up to 4 toolheads which can all print in parallel for some parts of large prints. - which could increase print speeds by over 50% more.
Print head can access the whole X axis

Disadvantages of Dual Gantry over IDEX

Increased complexity of belt routing
Slicers don’t currently support parallel printing - so post processing of GCODE required
Print heads cannot individually access the whole Y axis
The front gantry and print head can block the view of the rear gantry.

Advantages of Dual Gantry over Tool changing

Parallel printing - up to doubling print speeds.
Allows Parallel priming and wiping during gantry or tool changes - which can push tool change times from >17 seconds down to <1 second
When used in combination with IDEX can allow up to 4 toolheads which can all print in parallel for some parts of large prints. - which could increase print speeds by over 50% more.
When used in combination with tool changing would allow extremely fast tool changes if the tool changes occur between the two gantries
Less equipment sitting around not being used 90% of the time.

Disadvantages of Dual Gantry over Tool changing

Increased complexity of belt routing
More motors if using a Nozzle changer tool changer
Slicers don’t currently support parallel printing - so post processing of GCODE required
Print heads cannot individually access the whole Y axis
The front gantry and print head can block the view of the rear gantry.

In response to question from @JavierHernandez-bj5hz asking where the Quad head design will be CoreXYUVAB

The current 2 head dual gantry implementation is already CoreXYUV, with AB added on for independent Z lifting.

When I move to 4 head IDEX I will be changing the kinematics of each Gantry over from CoreXY to Dual Markforged - So I guess it will be something like Double , Dual Markforged, Might be Better to call it Quad Markforged I suppose/

In terms of AXIS it will have Z0, X1,Z1,Y,X2,Z2, U1,Z3,V,U2,Z4.
Which in RRF will be XYZUVABCDEF.

Then just to add to the complication - the next phase after IDEX is 'occasionally moving bed' - which will add a additional larger Y axis movement capability - so will then be
Z0, X1,Z1,Y,X2,Z2, U1,Z3,V,U2,Z4, Y2  , Which in RRF will be XYZUVABCDEFG

dwuk3d

@o_lampe If you look at some of my earlier video's you might see something like that.

Interestingly if I do end up with a fairly long bed - maybe 600 or 700 mm - then I might have to consider getting a 2nd SV08 and bolting it on the front - which as you said could have 4 heads of its own.

Might get out of hand though.

I think I will probably stop at 3 heads for a while - so that I can see how beneficial adding the 3rd IDEX head really is in real life situations.

I would though really think something like an Orangestorm Giga (with the 1m x 1m x 1m). Could really benefit from 3 gantries with 2 or 3 heads on each, or maybe even 4 gantries with 2-4 heads on each.

There was a good example in this video of printing a coffee table - where the 4 legs could be printed in parallel quite easily.

o_lampe

@dwuk3d said in Sovol SV08 Multiple Motion System Upgrade.:

Z0, X1,Z1,Y,X2,Z2, U1,Z3,V,U2,Z4, Y2  , Which in RRF will be XYZUVABCDEFG

Just call it Alphabet kinematics , because there aren't many unused letters left

bricobot

@dwuk3d said in Sovol SV08 Multiple Motion System Upgrade.:

In response to question from @JavierHernandez-bj5hz asking where the Quad head design will be CoreXYUVAB

The current 2 head dual gantry implementation is already CoreXYUV, with AB added on for independent Z lifting.

When I move to 4 head IDEX I will be changing the kinematics of each Gantry over from CoreXY to Dual Markforged - So I guess it will be something like Double , Dual Markforged, Might be Better to call it Quad Markforged I suppose/

In terms of AXIS it will have Z0, X1,Z1,Y,X2,Z2, U1,Z3,V,U2,Z4.
Which in RRF will be XYZUVABCDEF.

Then just to add to the complication - the next phase after IDEX is 'occasionally moving bed' - which will add a additional larger Y axis movement capability - so will then be
Z0, X1,Z1,Y,X2,Z2, U1,Z3,V,U2,Z4, Y2  , Which in RRF will be XYZUVABCDEFG

Thanks David, I called it TotalPnP QuadMarkForged. I not design a 3D printer,actually I design desktop SMT (PCBA) machines. And I have some interesting ideas with this.

So, would duplicating the Dual Markforged IDEX kinematics be enough?

What do you think about using GT2 50T timing pulley instance 20T timing pulley in motors? I have been using it like this in both Y and X for years with Nema17 60mm in cartesian machine and it has worked well for me. You lose a little torque but you gain some speed, and since they are 60mm there is still enough torque to work well.

Best regards

Javier Hernandez

dwuk3d

@bricobot not sure about 50t - I guess having two motors on the dual Markforged Y axis does mean there should be plenty of torque - so I could look at increasing speed.

What i would like to do is get close to SV08 standard single head speeds - which I think is fairly quick -but then double or triple this with parallel printing.

Then make colour changes between 10 and 100x quicker than any non parallel printer.