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    Fans vs Berd-Air

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    Smart effector for delta printers
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    • uk25undefined
      uk25 @klcjr89
      last edited by

      @klcjr89
      Yep. I saw this one, but I thinks that it is extremely overpriced for its objective. And it is not so effective like pump from 'berd-air' solution.

      The head from berd's pump provide alot of air 13 l/min and I could not find anything similar in this overall dimensions. So I want to try this head with some brushless motor like A3650, instead of noisy brushed JRK-555.

      klcjr89undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • klcjr89undefined
        klcjr89 @uk25
        last edited by klcjr89

        @uvarovkv said in Fans vs Berd-Air:

        @klcjr89
        Yep. I saw this one, but I thinks that it is extremely overpriced for its objective. And it is not so effective like pump from 'berd-air' solution.

        The head from berd's pump provide alot of air 13 l/min and I could not find anything similar in this overall dimensions. So I want to try this head with some brushless motor like A3650, instead of noisy brushed JRK-555.

        You must've not read the specifications correctly, as the flow rate is just as good as a 'berd-air' pump, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. There is a 2 liter per min. difference in the reported Chinese specs for flow, and the berd-air is already overkill as is for flow rate. 🙂

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Dougal1957undefined
          Dougal1957
          last edited by Dougal1957

          yep it is actually slightly higher O/P to the 555 ones mind mine are not that noisy

          Video of mine at various levels and you will note at the start that there is a fan that is very noisy and is about to be swapped out and it is my board cooling fan and if you listen carefully you can hear the air coming out of the tube above the sound of the pump at around the 50% level.

          Doug

          edit for typo

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          • uk25undefined
            uk25
            last edited by uk25

            Indeed, it is not as noisy as it is spoken about.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • MSquaredundefined
              MSquared @klcjr89
              last edited by

              @klcjr89 said in Fans vs Berd-Air:

              If you're in the USA, I have an extra 24V brushless pump I could sell, but I do not have an extra set of mufflers.

              I would be very interested in this. What would you be asking? Feel free to email me directly about it.

              klcjr89undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • klcjr89undefined
                klcjr89 @MSquared
                last edited by

                @msquared said in Fans vs Berd-Air:

                @klcjr89 said in Fans vs Berd-Air:

                If you're in the USA, I have an extra 24V brushless pump I could sell, but I do not have an extra set of mufflers.

                I would be very interested in this. What would you be asking? Feel free to email me directly about it.

                What is your email sir?

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                • MSquaredundefined
                  MSquared
                  last edited by

                  mmathias01@gmail.com

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Hergonowayundefined
                    Hergonoway
                    last edited by

                    Hi, if you're building a delta, it depends if you've planned to use a smart effector or not.

                    With a smart effector the clearance is very limited, tusk system works well from the moment you put a fan that gives a good air pressure, but with the clearance it can be tricky. 2 blower oriented toward the head block with a sock on it did a better job but it's very space consuming.

                    A big blower on the effector then plastic tubing passing from above to under toward a tusk system would be the best. But there's nothing on thingiverse like that yet, I've made a prototype but never ended it or even tested it.

                    I've recently switched to a berdair system, the noise is not really a problem, but it's there.

                    Delta goes BrrrRRRRrrrrrRRRRrrr

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Kerzalundefined
                      Kerzal
                      last edited by

                      Since I have no experience with the smart effector yet, could someone help me out for a sec?

                      What I want to do right now, is to use two fan designs from thingiverse, each of them use 1x 40mm fan, so I can use my Noctua fans here. What I wonder is if the two designs listed below + 2x 40mm fans will work on the smart effector, or if it will generate too much weight and interrupt the auto-calibration?

                      Part cooling
                      Effector cooling

                      I am really grateful for the discussions that happened in this thread, its all experiences that I try to absorb and incorporate into my ideas when improving my printer. Hope someone can give me a hint if the designs linked above has a chance of working. I haven't had the chance to print them yet, so I'm just trying to plan ahead.

                      Hergonowayundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • Hergonowayundefined
                        Hergonoway @Kerzal
                        last edited by Hergonoway

                        @kerzal said in Fans vs Berd-Air:

                        What I wonder is if the two designs listed below + 2x 40mm fans will work on the smart effector, or if it will generate too much weight and interrupt the auto-calibration?

                        No problemo. No enough weight to "wobble" the hotend to the point it'll engage false triggering. Even if it happens you can fine tune the trigger sensitivity of the smart effector.

                        Delta goes BrrrRRRRrrrrrRRRRrrr

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • benkayundefined
                          benkay @klcjr89
                          last edited by

                          @klcjr89 Which of the brushless pumps is best for this application? Series or parallel?

                          Tevo Little monster with Duet Wifi and Smart Effector / magball arms upgrades.
                          Original Prusa i3 Mk3

                          klcjr89undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • klcjr89undefined
                            klcjr89 @benkay
                            last edited by klcjr89

                            @benkay said in Fans vs Berd-Air:

                            @klcjr89 Which of the brushless pumps is best for this application? Series or parallel?

                            Either is more than enough for print cooling. I chose the parallel model for more flowrate, as the mufflers I bought reduce the flow rate. I have the mufflers installed in both the input and output for greater noise reduction.

                            I hope these images help (the last image is the muffler specs).

                            Pumps
                            Mufflers

                            benkayundefined deckingmanundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • benkayundefined
                              benkay @klcjr89
                              last edited by

                              @klcjr89 Thanks, I think I'll go parallel too.

                              What is the noise like generated by the air pump in use or parts cooling? I guess it runs at a relatively low PWM for this purpose....

                              Tevo Little monster with Duet Wifi and Smart Effector / magball arms upgrades.
                              Original Prusa i3 Mk3

                              klcjr89undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • klcjr89undefined
                                klcjr89 @benkay
                                last edited by

                                @benkay I would wait for @MSquared 's opinion first before you order anything, as he has a 24V parallel brushless pump on the way from me.

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                                • MSquaredundefined
                                  MSquared
                                  last edited by

                                  Indeed I do.

                                  I am currently running a standard Berd-Air pump and have spent some time dialing it in so I plan on posting a comparison between the two in terms of performance, ease of install / mounting, and noise level once I get my hands on it!

                                  Stand by!

                                  -M2

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                                  • fmaundefined
                                    fma
                                    last edited by

                                    What do mufflers look like?

                                    Frédéric

                                    klcjr89undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • klcjr89undefined
                                      klcjr89 @fma
                                      last edited by klcjr89

                                      @fma

                                      Muffler

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • fmaundefined
                                        fma
                                        last edited by

                                        Thanks. I missed the link above...

                                        Frédéric

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                                        • MSquaredundefined
                                          MSquared
                                          last edited by

                                          Hey All,

                                          I received the pump from @klcjr89 and have played with it a little bit. I plan on doing more extensive testing and a full write up I wanted to give you all some of my initial impressions.

                                          Technical Stuff

                                          • The build quality of the pump seems very good, it feels solid with a good fit and finish
                                          • It absolutely provides enough flow / pressure for the Berd-Air tube(s)
                                          • Connected directly to the PWM fan output of the Duet with no issues
                                          • Due to it being a brushless motor PWM output is a bit more fussy (see notes below)
                                          • Might get hotter than the standard pump (see notes below)

                                          Aesthetic Stuff

                                          • It is much more attractive than the default Berd-Air pump
                                          • It should mount much easier than a Berd-Air pump (see notes below)
                                          • It is more compact than a Berd-Air pump
                                          • Without the mufflers (I do not have a set, but may purchase some) it seems like it might be louder than the standard pump (see notes below)

                                          Other Notes
                                          @klcjr89 mentioned some strange harmonic/auditory issues when running at less than 100% (255 PWM) I found that this only occurs when you are running a PWM frequency that is substantially in the range of human hearing (20hz ~ 20khz). I found that running it above ~17khz resulted in no uncomfortable sounds, which makes sense since I am old enough I probably can't hear above that range anyways 🙂 .

                                          That being said 2-wire BLDC motors don't always like being PWM'd. You have to get your PWM frequency set to your liking (I settled on someplace in the 20k range for my initial testing). Depending on the PWM frequency used you will lose a little bit of responsiveness in either the low (<10%) or high (> 90%) range where changing the PWM output will not adjust the pump speed. I don't think this is an issue since with a Berd-Air I rarely need these ranges anyways.

                                          I measured the noise level using a dB meter on my phone and the brushless pump is louder than the standard Berd-Air pump when properly configured; however I don't feel that comparison to the standard pump is not entirely fair at this point. My standard pump is mounted in a way that dramatically reduces the vibration of the pump. For testing this pump it was not mounted at all, I just had it sitting on rag on my desk. I have designed a similar vibration-dampening mount for this pump but I have not yet printed it or tested it; I plan on doing that for the full write-up, as well as posting the mount if people are interested. I also do not yet have the mufflers installed, which would destroy some of the aesthetic benefits of the pump, but would probably reduce the noise level even more.

                                          I didn't run the pump for a full print, so I cannot fully comment on how hot the motor gets at this point, in my initial testing it seemed like it got hotter than my properly configured standard pump.

                                          Thats all for now, I will post a full write up later this week if I have the time to get all the testing I want to do completed!

                                          -M

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                                          • mrehorstdmdundefined
                                            mrehorstdmd @Phaedrux
                                            last edited by

                                            @phaedrux

                                            CPAP blowers are not always easy to get or inexpensive if you buy them, so I designed a printable blower that uses a motor from a HDD which most people can get for free. About $3 worth of filament and $5 for a BLDC motor driver via ebay and you can move a lot of air quietly. Printed centrifugal blower/compressor.

                                            I haven't tested it pushing air through a small tube like the Berdair thing. Maybe I'll get a chance in the next couple days.

                                            https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

                                            whosrdaddyundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
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