Fans vs Berd-Air
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@klcjr89 said in Fans vs Berd-Air:
If you're in the USA, I have an extra 24V brushless pump I could sell, but I do not have an extra set of mufflers.
I would be very interested in this. What would you be asking? Feel free to email me directly about it.
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@msquared said in Fans vs Berd-Air:
@klcjr89 said in Fans vs Berd-Air:
If you're in the USA, I have an extra 24V brushless pump I could sell, but I do not have an extra set of mufflers.
I would be very interested in this. What would you be asking? Feel free to email me directly about it.
What is your email sir?
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Hi, if you're building a delta, it depends if you've planned to use a smart effector or not.
With a smart effector the clearance is very limited, tusk system works well from the moment you put a fan that gives a good air pressure, but with the clearance it can be tricky. 2 blower oriented toward the head block with a sock on it did a better job but it's very space consuming.
A big blower on the effector then plastic tubing passing from above to under toward a tusk system would be the best. But there's nothing on thingiverse like that yet, I've made a prototype but never ended it or even tested it.
I've recently switched to a berdair system, the noise is not really a problem, but it's there.
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Since I have no experience with the smart effector yet, could someone help me out for a sec?
What I want to do right now, is to use two fan designs from thingiverse, each of them use 1x 40mm fan, so I can use my Noctua fans here. What I wonder is if the two designs listed below + 2x 40mm fans will work on the smart effector, or if it will generate too much weight and interrupt the auto-calibration?
I am really grateful for the discussions that happened in this thread, its all experiences that I try to absorb and incorporate into my ideas when improving my printer. Hope someone can give me a hint if the designs linked above has a chance of working. I haven't had the chance to print them yet, so I'm just trying to plan ahead.
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@kerzal said in Fans vs Berd-Air:
What I wonder is if the two designs listed below + 2x 40mm fans will work on the smart effector, or if it will generate too much weight and interrupt the auto-calibration?
No problemo. No enough weight to "wobble" the hotend to the point it'll engage false triggering. Even if it happens you can fine tune the trigger sensitivity of the smart effector.
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@klcjr89 Which of the brushless pumps is best for this application? Series or parallel?
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@benkay said in Fans vs Berd-Air:
@klcjr89 Which of the brushless pumps is best for this application? Series or parallel?
Either is more than enough for print cooling. I chose the parallel model for more flowrate, as the mufflers I bought reduce the flow rate. I have the mufflers installed in both the input and output for greater noise reduction.
I hope these images help (the last image is the muffler specs).
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@klcjr89 Thanks, I think I'll go parallel too.
What is the noise like generated by the air pump in use or parts cooling? I guess it runs at a relatively low PWM for this purpose....
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Indeed I do.
I am currently running a standard Berd-Air pump and have spent some time dialing it in so I plan on posting a comparison between the two in terms of performance, ease of install / mounting, and noise level once I get my hands on it!
Stand by!
-M2
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What do mufflers look like?
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Thanks. I missed the link above...
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Hey All,
I received the pump from @klcjr89 and have played with it a little bit. I plan on doing more extensive testing and a full write up I wanted to give you all some of my initial impressions.
Technical Stuff
- The build quality of the pump seems very good, it feels solid with a good fit and finish
- It absolutely provides enough flow / pressure for the Berd-Air tube(s)
- Connected directly to the PWM fan output of the Duet with no issues
- Due to it being a brushless motor PWM output is a bit more fussy (see notes below)
- Might get hotter than the standard pump (see notes below)
Aesthetic Stuff
- It is much more attractive than the default Berd-Air pump
- It should mount much easier than a Berd-Air pump (see notes below)
- It is more compact than a Berd-Air pump
- Without the mufflers (I do not have a set, but may purchase some) it seems like it might be louder than the standard pump (see notes below)
Other Notes
@klcjr89 mentioned some strange harmonic/auditory issues when running at less than 100% (255 PWM) I found that this only occurs when you are running a PWM frequency that is substantially in the range of human hearing (20hz ~ 20khz). I found that running it above ~17khz resulted in no uncomfortable sounds, which makes sense since I am old enough I probably can't hear above that range anyways
.That being said 2-wire BLDC motors don't always like being PWM'd. You have to get your PWM frequency set to your liking (I settled on someplace in the 20k range for my initial testing). Depending on the PWM frequency used you will lose a little bit of responsiveness in either the low (<10%) or high (> 90%) range where changing the PWM output will not adjust the pump speed. I don't think this is an issue since with a Berd-Air I rarely need these ranges anyways.
I measured the noise level using a dB meter on my phone and the brushless pump is louder than the standard Berd-Air pump when properly configured; however I don't feel that comparison to the standard pump is not entirely fair at this point. My standard pump is mounted in a way that dramatically reduces the vibration of the pump. For testing this pump it was not mounted at all, I just had it sitting on rag on my desk. I have designed a similar vibration-dampening mount for this pump but I have not yet printed it or tested it; I plan on doing that for the full write-up, as well as posting the mount if people are interested. I also do not yet have the mufflers installed, which would destroy some of the aesthetic benefits of the pump, but would probably reduce the noise level even more.
I didn't run the pump for a full print, so I cannot fully comment on how hot the motor gets at this point, in my initial testing it seemed like it got hotter than my properly configured standard pump.
Thats all for now, I will post a full write up later this week if I have the time to get all the testing I want to do completed!
-M
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CPAP blowers are not always easy to get or inexpensive if you buy them, so I designed a printable blower that uses a motor from a HDD which most people can get for free. About $3 worth of filament and $5 for a BLDC motor driver via ebay and you can move a lot of air quietly. Printed centrifugal blower/compressor.
I haven't tested it pushing air through a small tube like the Berdair thing. Maybe I'll get a chance in the next couple days.
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@mrehorstdmd did you find a way to control to control the blower via a PWM input signal, or do you just PWM the input voltage?
I have some motors laying around, contemplating which controller I should use as I have a 24V PSU... -
The driver I'm using has a PWM input pin, but when I tested it on the printer I just PWM'd the power input to the driver. It would probably be better to use the PWM pin.
Of course, they don't provide any specs on the PWM input pin level. I would assume it is a 5V logic level input since there's some 5V parts and a regulator on the board. Maybe compatible with 3V?
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I was just wondering how your guys brushless pumps are going? I am looking at using either one of them or the berd air pumps. Since it looks like from the age of the posts that they have been running for a while, what are your preferences as to which is better? Have the brushless ones lasted being driven by pwm?
Kind Regards,
Sam -
@mrehorstdmd said in Fans vs Berd-Air:
Printed centrifugal blower/compressor.
Same question here.. any long-term experience updates?
