Alternatives to E3D V6?
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Hi all.
Firstly this is not knocking E3D or their V6 product at all. I've got a number of machines and I don't want my knowledge to be limited to a single manufacturers products.
I'm looking for similar performance alternatives hotends for single material extrusion with at best UK or worst European support. Would really like to hear of first hand experience.
I am doing internet searches and following up material from trade shows but what the marketing team present and what users experience are rarely completely aligned!
Thanks.
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I hear nothing but adoration for the Slice Engineering Mosquito hotend but it is certainly not in the same ballpark as the V6 in terms of price but is is rated to around 400C I believe and is considerably smaller.
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@dougal1957 Yeah, a brief search has shown me E3D are not at the expensive end of the specrum for companies designing and selling hotends.
Subject title suitably adjusted! I may just have to delay introducing the other hotend for a while longer!
Running 3 P3Steel with Duet 2. Duet 3 on the shelf looking for a suitable machine. One first generation Duet in a Logo/Turtle style robot!
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If you are looking outside the E3D ecosystem, there are some more options.
You can also look at MicroSwiss hotends. Creality uses a clone on (most of) their printers, and I am printing quite successfully with that.
If you're interested in completely different design ideas you could check out the Merlin hotend -- it's PEEK based and as such cannot go to temperatures above 260 degrees Celsius, but on the other hand you do not need active cooling ... it's a seven year old design, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.
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@oliof said in Alternatives to E3D V6?:
You can also look at MicroSwiss hotends. Creality uses a clone on (most of) their printers, and I am printing quite successfully with that.
Processed material, temp, and rough flowrate either average or peak?
I should have been a little more specific. I am using PLA and PETG at the moment but looking to move into PA and PC as my machines improve. Therefore process temps of 300-350 are likely to be needed.
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In that case the Merlin hotend is right out. MicroSwiss has a fullmetal variant plus plated nozzles for different material, but I've only looked into that passingly as I am far off printing PA or PC.
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@doctrucker said in Alternatives to E3D V6?:
@dougal1957 Yeah, a brief search has shown me E3D are not at the expensive end of the specrum for companies designing and selling hotends.
Subject title suitably adjusted! I may just have to delay introducing the other hotend for a while longer!
Yeah I know what you mean I am thinking of getting one as well but it would have to be the Mosquito Magnum version which in the UK is £185 bare on top of that you need a High spec 50W heater cartridge A Temp sensor to handle the high temps and a suitable nozzle
So if you say 12 for a PT100 25 or so for a Nozzle X 30 wish for a heater cartridge and an amount for the fan I reckon I would pretty soon be in the 250-300 range for a hotted (and that is using non Mosquito parts for some of it as well) but at least they use the std ish sort of V6 nozzles. 713Maker at least does a conversion unit to convert it to a screw mount to suit the Smart Effector.
The minimum for a nozzle IMHO would be either the slice engineering coated one or the E3D V6 nozzle-X
Doug
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There is also the all in one. French made...
https://www.hotends.fr/fr/home/50-hotend-all-in-one-evo.html
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There's one i have seen a review of a hotend that is considered for high end Plastics
Review from C.R.T -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Agbt8etzPM
Website -> https://dyzedesign.com/ -
There's the original jhead folks: https://hotends.com/
The newer designs look fantastic from what I saw at MRRF. -
Here's another one that is high temp capable to throw in the mix...direct drive though
https://micron-eme.com/products/high-temperature-cobra-1-75mm-extruder-up-to-400-degrees-c
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@jamesm said in Alternatives to E3D V6?:
Here's another one that is high temp capable to throw in the mix...direct drive though
https://micron-eme.com/products/high-temperature-cobra-1-75mm-extruder-up-to-400-degrees-c
$500USD?!
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I've been using this XCR3D hot-end for about a year and it has been working great. The cheap fan that came with it didn't last at 50C enclosure temperature (replaced with Sunon fan), but unlike the E3D V6, the fan mounts on an aluminum bracket screwed to the heatsink. It doesn't rotate, and can't come into contact with the heater block and melt like the E3D fan mount usually does. The heatbreak is held in place with a set screw, not threading into the heatsink, so it never comes loose during printing like the E3D v6 heatbreak did to me on several occasions.
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@mrehorstdmd said in Alternatives to E3D V6?:
contact with the heater block and melt like the E3D fan mount usually does.
I recently had some issues with dimensionsl errors on their drawings of their hotend assembly and requested they update thrir notes too:
I'd advise an update on the notes too.
Exisiting:
NOTE: THE BLOCK CAN BE MOUNTED EITHER WAY ROUND.
NOTE: THE DUCT CAN BE MOUNTED EITHER WAY UP.Add:
NOTE: DO NOT POINT NOZZLE BLOCK TOWARDS THE FAN SHROUD WHEN THE FAN HOLDER IS OFFSET DOWN.They must've been aware of the issue, I've had second hand genuine units that have obviously been toasted by being assembled with the shroud too close to the block.
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Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I'll record them all!
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@phaedrux I was having issues getting onto their website yesterday, but all seems fine today. Odd.
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In simple finger tests, I find that the two bottom fins of the E3D heatsink seem to be dissipating all the heat and the rest never really get warm (at least at block temperature of 240C). I suspect the entire upper half of the heatsink is there mainly to allow room for the fan to be mounted. I never got a chance to take a picture of it with a thermal camera.
Even if you position it properly, the E3D fan mount doesn't usually stay there long. It can rotate even from the small pull of the fan wires or when bumped when you remove prints from the bed.
I'm not a fan of the mounting system that seems to have become standard. The round barrel has no anti rotation features and in the Titan extruder it can rotate relatively easily, The Bondtech BMG extruder seems to clamp it tightly enough to prevent rotation. Why anyone would design something like this without at least one flat face to prevent rotation I'll never understand. It reminds me of using 4 screws to level print beds - an early design mistake that is still being propagated.
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For the price, quality and options E3D is hard to beat. Its not a sales pitch, I tried to move away from E3D, long story for another day.
Originally I felt the pricing was high considering all the knock offs. Well I learned there is a huge difference with E3D quality and it justifys the price.
There is consistancy in the product, making troubleshooting easier and reducing failures. (unless you forget to plug in the hotend fan, lesson learned)
Plus resolving any issue is straightfoward, sometimes a pain but routine over time.When outfitted with a copper block, nozzle x and PT100 it is quite a robust workhorse with few limitations. Pricing is still near half any other option that seems comparible. I’d really like to try another solution but can’t justify the cost difference. Id rather purxhase anoher DUET Wifi with a hotend at that cost. That I can justify (if I had the dough thai is).
As mentioned above the clip on fan isnt the best solution. I found that integrating the shroud for the heatsink with the mount yeilds better results. Also, there should be no issues with the heatsink spinning in the mount, even when using printed mounts. That too needs to be adressed in the mount design.
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@mrehorstdmd yes, you would have thought flats would be the intuative solution to the problem. E3Ds fix has been to move to a screw in mount. Fine for mounting in machined or precision moulded parts but a further step away from working well with printed hotend mounts.
Regarding the groove mount I'm not sure where it originated. It seems to be an informal thing with a degree of variation between different suppliers versions. I tend to ensure a 0.5mm CAD gap between my clamp part and base and so far that has not failed to grant a tight clamp.
With the fan mount rotated so the offset is upward, moving the fan away from the heater block it is easy enough to ensure the fan is trapped and can't rotate much.
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@bricor said in Alternatives to E3D V6?:
For the price, quality and options E3D is hard to beat. Its not a sales pitch, I tried to move away from E3D, long story for another day.
@doctrucker said in Alternatives to E3D V6?:
Firstly this is not knocking E3D or their V6 product at all. I've got a number of machines and I don't want my knowledge to be limited to a single manufacturers products.
...but yes agree that price comparisons to cloned and east asian products are dangerous.
You have the similar issues when trying to justify why component x costs an order of manitude more than a mass manufactured part of similar size to J Bloggs who's just realised 3D Printing may be the ideal solution to making the prototype widget for that product that will make their fortune.
