Duet3D Logo Duet3D
    • Tags
    • Documentation
    • Order
    • Register
    • Login

    Silicone Heater

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved
    General Discussion
    10
    24
    2.2k
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • Delerundefined
      Deler @A Former User
      last edited by

      @bearer
      There are not much specification to compare. Here you go the links to both of them

      Keenovo https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32308797940.html

      Shenzhen Ali https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/300X300mm-750W-220V-w-NTC-100K-Thermistor-3M-Adhesive-back-Silicone-Heater-3D-Printer-Heater-Heatbed/709519_32643205159.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.ac9054338RjCWW

      They are both using same thermostat as far as I know.

      A Former User? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • dc42undefined
        dc42 administrators
        last edited by

        Your power density ia 750/900 = 0.83W per sq cm, which is very high (I usually recommend 0.4W per sq cm). With that power density, a thermal cutout is mandatory. I heard that Keenovo can integrate a thermal cutout into the heater, which would make it easier for you. I'm not sure whether Shenzhen Ali Brother Technology offer that, so I've just asked them.

        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

        Delerundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Delerundefined
          Deler @dc42
          last edited by Deler

          Hi @dc42
          So you are recommending a heater with 360W. Actually I was thinking to install a cut-off thermal attache it to the heater it self (since it is easier to replace incase of failure).
          But still I am lost about which brand should I buy 😊

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • A Former User?
            A Former User @Deler
            last edited by

            @deler said in Silicone Heater:

            There are not much specification to compare.

            That makes it difficult to make a recommendation. All I can add is that I have some silicone heaters in the price range of the cheapest option, and the quality matches the price tag as with most cheap things from AliExpress. I.e. the edges are jagged and the adhesive is poorly applied - I don't have any means of determining if the 3M branded adhesive is indeed the real deal either. and you want to consider what happens if the heater comes loose. The thermal cut-off should be integrated for that reason, and I wouldn't worry about replacing it unless its the single use thermal fuse that melt.

            Thermal images show the heater is not laid out with any care for anything but time, but thank to relatively thick aluminium I still get a reasonably even heat distribution.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • mrehorstdmdundefined
              mrehorstdmd
              last edited by

              The self-stick heaters from Keenovo use 468MP adhesive. I have found that it lasts about 2 years before it starts letting go. I recently received a new heater for UMMD. I ordered it without adhesive and will use high temperature silicone to attach it to the bed.

              When I inquired about the adhesive-free heater, the Johnny Tang at Keenovo sent me a couple links to user guides for the heaters that I had never seen before. They recommend putting a bead of silicone around the edges of the heater once it has been stuck to the bed plate. Maybe that prevents the adhesive from letting go of the plate (maybe..?). Here are the links:

              https://keenovo.store/blogs/how-to/how-to-achieve-a-perfect-installation-of-a-keenovo-heater-pad-to-your-3d-printers-build-plate

              https://keenovo.store/blogs/how-to/how-to-remove-from-a-3m-adhesive-backing-installation

              This is what happens when the heater lets go of the bed plate:

              alt text

              Air is a great thermal insulator. When it gets between the heater and bed plate the heater gets very hot- it toasted the silicone in the black area. The adhesive let go of the plate and stayed on the heater in the burned area. I don't think this sort of thing will be a problem with high temperature silicone (purchased for $6 at a local auto parts store), but if it ever lets go of the plate, I'll post pictures on my blog. This is why the TCO should be on/in the heater and not the bed plate.

              I have found that the same approximate 2 year limit applies to the 468MP holding the PEI on the bed plate, too.

              https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

              Delerundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Delerundefined
                Deler @mrehorstdmd
                last edited by

                thanks @mrehorstdmd for the great info 🙂

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • gorf26undefined
                  gorf26
                  last edited by

                  Any one have a link to a 120v thermal cutout I have been looking but most I come up with are for 220v.

                  thanks gary

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • jhonf441undefined
                    jhonf441
                    last edited by

                    Hello, i have looked for a 110V fuse but I can not find it, my question is if I use a 1800W heater at 110V I could use a 250V to 10A fuse and the other doubt, the fuse must be touching the hot surface and must have a nominal temperature, being Is the maximum safe temperature that the heater can reach?

                    dc42undefined mrehorstdmdundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • A Former User?
                      A Former User
                      last edited by

                      You can use a fuse with a higher voltage rating no problem, they are usually just physically bigger than what would be needed at a lower voltage.

                      The rated temperature is the temperature at which you want the fuse to disconnect the heater, so it should be above your normal printing temperature and below the temperature you think would pose a fire risk.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • jhonf441undefined
                        jhonf441
                        last edited by

                        Thanks, the fuse must be touching the heater?

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • dc42undefined
                          dc42 administrators @jhonf441
                          last edited by dc42

                          @jhonf441 said in Silicone Heater:

                          Hello, i have looked for a 110V fuse but I can not find it, my question is if I use a 1800W heater at 110V I could use a 250V to 10A fuse ...

                          1800W at 110V is 1800/110 amps, which is a lot more than 10A. So no.

                          Do you really need 1800W? How large is the bed?

                          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                          jhonf441undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • gorf26undefined
                            gorf26
                            last edited by

                            On mine the heat pad is 330 x 330 110volt

                            haven't hooked it up yet but working on it now want to be safe...

                            Thanks gary

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • mrehorstdmdundefined
                              mrehorstdmd @jhonf441
                              last edited by

                              @jhonf441 fuses are selected based on current, TCOs based on current and temperature.

                              An 1800W heater is going to take 16A, so you'd need a fuse rated for at least 20A.

                              A TCO has to be rated to handle the current you'll be pulling through it, so again at least 20A. They usually self-heat, too, so if you want the bed to operate at 100C you have to get a TCO that's rated for a temperature higher than 100C. Check the data sheet of the TCO for the formula to calculate the TCO operating temperature based on current draw (16A) and your bed's operating temperature.

                              1800W is a lot of power to pull from a 117VAC outlet. Are you going to blow a circuit breaker?

                              https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

                              Surgikillundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • gorf26undefined
                                gorf26
                                last edited by

                                Would this one be OK?

                                https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SDF+DF152S/317-1136-ND/1014765/?itemSeq=294889851

                                Thanks gary

                                Phaedruxundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Phaedruxundefined
                                  Phaedrux Moderator @gorf26
                                  last edited by

                                  @gorf26 said in Silicone Heater:

                                  Would this one be OK?

                                  https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SDF+DF152S/317-1136-ND/1014765/?itemSeq=294889851

                                  Thanks gary

                                  That looks ok provided you won't be using bed temps of 120c on a regular basis.

                                  Holding Temperature 128°C (262°F)
                                  Rated Functioning Temperature 152°C (306°F)

                                  Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                  gorf26undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • jhonf441undefined
                                    jhonf441 @dc42
                                    last edited by

                                    @dc42
                                    Hello, they are actually 1800/110 amps, but I had calculated 1800 / 250A and approached the commercial value available at 10A so the fuse I find is at 250v, the bed is 600mmx570mm I had already read about 0.4W per square cm but that was according to what I read for beds 4mm thick and aluminum, I have 8mm thick stainless steel, and the reason is that I had enough problems with aluminum, I did not get it was completely flat or curved when heate.
                                    The size of the silicone heater is made to the same extent as the bed.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • gorf26undefined
                                      gorf26 @Phaedrux
                                      last edited by

                                      No I use 60°C so should be good then

                                      thanks gary

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Surgikillundefined
                                        Surgikill @mrehorstdmd
                                        last edited by Surgikill

                                        @mrehorstdmd I just put an AC heater on my printer. I'm looking for fuses and a TCO. Can you point me to any? It's a 110V/1100 watt heater, so I'm thinking 12a fuse.

                                        I'm looking at this for a TCO. A little pricey but seems like it would fit the bill.
                                        https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cantherm/L5015224DELB0XE/317-1557-ND/3135080

                                        Phaedruxundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Phaedruxundefined
                                          Phaedrux Moderator @Surgikill
                                          last edited by

                                          @surgikill said in Silicone Heater:

                                          A little pricey

                                          You might be able to find the same part at a different reseller. Digikey encourages selling in bulk. Check for any regional electronics outfits that may carry them or something similar.

                                          If you're in Canada, check https://www.be-electronics.com/searchresults.asp?Search=thermal+cut+off&Submit=

                                          Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • gtj0undefined
                                            gtj0
                                            last edited by

                                            These are the ones I use...
                                            99C : https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K358CKK/
                                            or
                                            128C : https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0195UX2KA/

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • First post
                                              Last post
                                            Unless otherwise noted, all forum content is licensed under CC-BY-SA