Hypercube Fusion movement help

jay_s_uk

@RAM I would concentrate on updating to 2.0.5 first.
Although RRF3 is stable, it would take less work to get your config up and running.

Veti

@RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

The exact bed I am using is a creality cr10s pro bed and the hot end is a triangle labs clone of the E3D hot end which uses the same 100k thermositor.

100k thermistor does not mean much. There a quite a few different ones.
the important values are the Beta and C value in which they differ.

The Cr10s uses EPCOS 100k and Trianlelab now seems to be using ATC Semitec 104GT-2.
They are different and will report different temperatures.

droftarts

@RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

I still have the same firmware

Sorry, but you still haven't said what firmware you are running at the moment! Send M115 to the Duet and post the response.

I did try to upgrade the firmware to the latest V3

You should be able to update to RRF 3.0, but not directly to 3.0.1beta1. From the update notes https://github.com/dc42/RepRapFirmware/blob/v3-dev/WHATS_NEW_RRF3.md#reprapfirmware-301beta1 :

You cannot upgrade a Duet WiFi, Ethernet or Maestro direct to this release from RRF 1.x or 2.x because the firmware binary is too large for the old IAP. You must upgrade to version 3.0 first, then from 3.0 you can upgrade to this release.

However, updating to RRF 3 will need a number of changes to your config.g, though the configurator should be able to handle this. As @jay_s_uk suggests, perhaps concentrate on getting updated and running on 2.05.

See the response from @Veti regarding thermistors. A '100k thermistor' just means that at 25ºC, the resistance is 100k ohms, which is standard. However, different brands and models of thermistors can report wildly different resistances at specific temperatures. The Beta and C values allow you to work out what the temperature is accurately, for a specific thermistor. So knowing the brand and model of thermistor, so you can look up the Beta and C values, is important if you want your temperature reporting to be accurate.

Ian

RAM

@Veti I got the board updated to 2.0.5 as suggested.

M115
FIRMWARE_NAME: RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet FIRMWARE_VERSION: 2.05 ELECTRONICS: Duet WiFi 1.02 or later FIRMWARE_DATE: 2019-12-13b1

Should I run through the RRF config tool again now that I have a later firmware?

The hotend thermistor I am going to be using is this Thermistor

The reason I will be using that Thermistor is because it is long enough as my frame is 1 meter tall and the electronics are all going to be housed in the bottom.

I did try to look to see if they had the Beta and C values for both the hotend and bed thermistor but I can't seem to see them in the descriptions or the tech specs that they have on aliexpress.

Thanks also to @droftarts @jay_s_uk @Phaedrux for the replies the help is appreciated.

RAM

After digging around on the internet for a couple of hours I think I found what type both thermistors are but I cant find the C value for them and I am not sure which to pick from the list in the RRF configuration tool as there seems 2 that have similar Beta settings
The ones I think the thermistors are these 100K ohm NTC 3950FB

Veti

@RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

The ones I think the thermistors are these 100K ohm NTC 3950FB

That would be B3950 C0.

RAM

@Veti said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

@RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

The ones I think the thermistors are these 100K ohm NTC 3950FB

That would be B3950 C0.

Thanks for the info, I have been tinkering with the firmware and also looking through @Phaedrux config to try and figure bits out as well as using some of his bits from his macro files especially liked the start up tune at the end of the config.g file (I know little things please little minds).

I have managed to get the printer fully connected with all the bits I am going to be using such as the extruder, hotend & z-probe which I didn't before as I was still printing out the last parts that I needed to get them mounted.

I got the motors, endstops and probe working and even tuned the hotend and heated bed, So I am heading in the right direction at least now thanks to you guys.

Even though I followed the tuning guide to the letter with all the steps and it looked like everything was in the green, when I set the temp it shots past the target before it even tries to let itself settle. E.G if I set the hotend temp to 100c it will hit 110c before it starts to come back down to the set target temp, As where the heated bed seems to be fine. E.G set it to 60c it hits 60.5 and stablizes.

Is that normal for the hotend to do what it is doing or did I do something wrong when I tuned the hotend heater?
This is what I get when sending the M307 H1 & H0 commands which I did save using M500 after each tune had completed

M307 H1
Heater 1 model: gain 468.5, time constant 118.3, dead time 9.5, max PWM 1.00, calibration voltage 24.0, mode PID, inverted no, frequency default
Computed PID parameters for setpoint change: P4.7, I0.142, D31.6
Computed PID parameters for load change: P4.7,

M307 H0
Heater 0 model: gain 146.6, time constant 334.8, dead time 0.7, max PWM 1.00, calibration voltage 23.5, mode PID, inverted no, frequency default
Computed PID parameters for setpoint change: P582.4, I38.041, D285.4
Computed PID parameters for load change: P

If I also run any macro to pre-heat bed and hotend temps I get this warning.

M98 P"0:/macros/PRE-HEAT/Pre- Heat PLA"
Warning: Heater 1 appears to be over-powered. If left on at full power, its temperature is predicted to reach 493C.

Also is there a way to force the X - axis to home before the Y and make the Y - axis wait for the X to be homed before the Y - axis can home as I am using optical sensors and they are both in the same corner, if I press the home all button it causes them to collide and I would like to avoid this if possible.

I have added my whole Config in zip format if it will help.

Phaedrux

@RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

Warning: Heater 1 appears to be over-powered. If left on at full power, its temperature is predicted to reach 493C.

What do you have in the pre-heat pla macro?

The warning is to warn you that your heater could reach that temp if it entered a fault state where full power was applied without control. It's a warning to prompt you to take precautions. Always keep an eye on your printer. Have fire suppression nearby. Get a smoke detector. Consider a lower wattage heater cartridge.

@RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

Also is there a way to force the X - axis to home before the Y and make the Y - axis wait for the X to be homed before the Y - axis can home

Yes, you can define how the homing process proceeds in the homeall.g file.

RAM

@Phaedrux the PLA settings macro I got from your config and changed the values so that they matched my heaters

; Raise temp of heated bed to 60 and nozzle to 190
;

; New values
M307 H1 A468.5 C118.3 D9.5 S1.00 V24.0 B0 ; Hotend PID tune for 210c
M307 H0 A146.6 C334.8 D0.7 S1.00 V23.5 B0 ; Bed PID tune for 90c

T0
G10 P0 S190			; Set extruder temp (tool 0) to 190
M140 S60			; Set bed temp to 60
M116				; Wait for temps to be reached...
M117 PLA Preheat complete	; and send a notice to the screen that temps have been reached
;Play a tone
M300 S1250 P200
G4 P201
M300 S1500 P200
G4 P201
M300 S1100 P200
G4 P201
M300 S950 P300
G4 P400
M300 S1175 P300
G4 S1

All of the Pre-heat macros are the same just different bed and hotend temps set and after the M117 it says either PLA, ABS or PETG

I have a smoke detector and the printer is about 4 feet behind me but you are right I should buy a fire extingusher just incase the worst ever did happen.

As for the homeall.g file what would I need to do with it as I have not a clue in which way to format it.

homeall.g

How did you manage to do the sound file whilst you are about lol

Phaedrux

@RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

; New values
M307 H1 A468.5 C118.3 D9.5 S1.00 V24.0 B0 ; Hotend PID tune for 210c
M307 H0 A146.6 C334.8 D0.7 S1.00 V23.5 B0 ; Bed PID tune for 90c

So it's giving the warning because you are setting the values for the heaters. So it's just telling you that based on those values the heater model indicates that it has the potential to reach that temp if left at full uncontrolled power.

; homeall.g
; called to home all axes
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2.1.8 on Sun Jan 26 2020 18:02:23 GMT+0000 (Greenwich Mean Time)
G91                     ; relative positioning
G1 H2 Z5 F6000          ; lift Z relative to current position
G1 H1 X-315 F1800   ; move quickly to X or Y endstop and stop there (first pass)
G1 X5 F6000          ; go back a few mm
G1 H1 X-315 F360        ; move slowly to X axis endstop once more (second pass)
G1 H1 Y-325             ; home Y axis
G1 Y15 F6000          ; go back a few mm
G1 H1 Y-315 F360        ; move slowly to X axis endstop once more (second pass)
G90                     ; absolute positioning
G1 X-18 Y15 F6000       ; go to first bed probe point and home Z
G30                     ; home Z by probing the bed

Notice how I've split the X and Y movement so that it will home X first, then home Y after.

You may want to change the location before the G30 so that it's at the center of the bed for homing Z.

@RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

How did you manage to do the sound file whilst you are about lol

Way too much time playing tones in the console and composing little tunes.

RAM

@Phaedrux said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

So it's giving the warning because you are setting the values for the heaters. So it's just telling you that based on those values the heater model indicates that it has the potential to reach that temp if left at full uncontrolled power.

I thought that was the settings after the tuning was done which was the correct settings to be using so that it wouldn't overshot the temp that was set or am I totally lost again ?

As for the homeall.g file settings I didn't think of doing all of the X-Axis moves 1st then the Y.
If I wanted to have the nozzle in the center of the bed before homing the Z I take it that I change the current setting to the co-ordinates that are showing on the DWC for the X & Y axis so instead of it being

;orignal values
;G1 X-18 Y15 F6000       ; go to first bed probe point and home Z

;new values
G1 X 146 Y 130 F6000       ; go to first bed probe point and home Z (bed center)

Is that correct in the way that I am reading and understanding the gcode ?

How much $$ to do the star wars for the dark side theme

Phaedrux

@RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

@Phaedrux said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

So it's giving the warning because you are setting the values for the heaters. So it's just telling you that based on those values the heater model indicates that it has the potential to reach that temp if left at full uncontrolled power.

I thought that was the settings after the tuning was done which was the correct settings to be using so that it wouldn't overshot the temp that was set or am I totally lost again ?

Yes those settings are fine. The warning just pops up any time that command is executed just to let you know.

As for the homeall.g file settings I didn't think of doing all of the X-Axis moves 1st then the Y.
If I wanted to have the nozzle in the center of the bed before homing the Z I take it that I change the current setting to the co-ordinates that are showing on the DWC for the X & Y axis so instead of it being
;orignal values
;G1 X-18 Y15 F6000       ; go to first bed probe point and home Z

;new values
G1 X 146 Y 130 F6000       ; go to first bed probe point and home Z (bed center)
Is that correct in the way that I am reading and understanding the gcode ?

Yes that looks correct.

How much $$ to do the star wars for the dark side theme

You mean Vader's theme?

RAM

@Phaedrux Yep the Vadar theme, just think it would be fun to have as a print complete theme. Haven't a clue on how I would implement it unless I put it in the code area of simplify3d.

As for that heater warning when I run the macros does it really need to be in there ?

And is there a way that I can sort out the heating issue on the hotend from over shooting the target so much as it worries me if I have to print PETG and it needs to be set to 240c. Could it be due to a cheap heater cartridge?

Phaedrux

@RAM said in Hypercube Fusion movement help:

As for that heater warning when I run the macros does it really need to be in there ?

Do you mean, do the commands really need to be in there? Not really. It depends how different the tuning results are for different temperatures. You'd still get the warning at boot time when the default commands are executed.

And is there a way that I can sort out the heating issue on the hotend from over shooting the target so much as it worries me if I have to print PETG and it needs to be set to 240c. Could it be due to a cheap heater cartridge?

If you run the PID tune for the temperature you'll be using it shouldn't overshoot by much. Check that the cartridge and thermistor are tightly secured in the block.

RAM

@Phaedrux ok thanks I will try running the hotend tune again at 240 to see if it behaves better.

RAM

Ok I run the tuning again @ 240c and this is what it comes back with.

Warning: Heater 1 appears to be over-powered. If left on at full power, its temperature is predicted to reach 558C.
Auto tune heater 1 completed in 218 sec
Use M307 H1 to see the result, or M500 to save the result in config-override.g
28/01/2020, 18:35:41 	Auto tune phase 3, peak temperature was 258.3
28/01/2020, 18:35:31 	Auto tune phase 2, heater off
28/01/2020, 18:34:10 	Auto tune phase 1, heater on
28/01/2020, 18:34:04 	M303 H1 S240
Auto tuning heater 1 using target temperature 240.0°C and PWM 1.00 - do not leave printer unattended

is there a way that if the heater goes beyond a certain temp that it will shutdown automatically, or is that what the temp limit setting does when you go through the RRF config tool ?

apparently the heater cartridge that I have is capable of 350c but I don't want it going that high obviously as I only have the V6 clone but I am hoping to upgrade to the new E3D Hemera but I can't find a mount that works with my build of the hypercube as I am using rails for the X & Y axis. (Should have stuck to the original plans )

Phaedrux

@RAM Yes there is a temperature limit set

M143 H1 S280 ; set temperature limit for heater 1 to 280C

But that only applies when the duet is in control. The warning is about what would happen if the duet failed in such a way that the heater was fully powered. The warning is just informational to let you know what you're dealing with.

Are you using M500 after the tuning to save the results?

Now that you've tuned for 240 what does the temp graph look like when you set it to 240?

Did you start the tuning process from room temperature?

It's also a good idea to have the print cooling fan running at the same speed you'd normally be using during a print. Which for PETG may be next to nothing, but for PLA might be quite a lot. That's another reason why it may be beneficial having different tunes loaded for different temps, especially if you don't have a nozzle sock.

RAM

@Phaedrux Yep I am using M500 after the tuning is done to save it but I think I might not have checked the Read config-override.g file at end of startup process when I was doing the config.

It doesn't seem to shoot past 240c to much now I think it was about 8c more as where before it was going almost 18c above so that is an improvement at least.

Always done the tuning at room temp and with the part cooling fan set to 100% and even when I have been doing the pre-heat just as a test the part fan has been on 100%

I do have a silicon sock fitted too, how can I store different tunes for different temps or would I just run the tune for each filament temp that I would need and just store it in the pre-heat macro for that type of filament ?

If you think it might be better to just buy genuine heater cartridge and thermister I will do that as I don't want to be pulling the printer apart every 5 mins as I have a HicTop that is like that and I cannot be dealing with that again

Phaedrux

8c overshoot isn't too bad. It does seem to level off nicely after that. A genuine cartridge and thermistor may help. I'm always a fan of the quality option.

how can I store different tunes for different temps or would I just run the tune for each filament temp that I would need and just store it in the pre-heat macro for that type of filament ?

Exactly. If you use the preheat macro consistently, you could have the tuned settings in there. If you use PrusaSlicer you can even use the filaments gcode section to load the settings for each filament automatically. I think it's too bad that more slicers don't allow for that.

There is also the DWC filaments functionality that would let you automate the filament loading and unloading behaviour and you could have different tuned values loaded there.

But yes, using the preheat macro to load the values would be the most straight forward.

RAM

@Phaedrux oh if that seems ok with the overshoot margin I will stop worrying then, I will have to wait till payday but will definately buy the genuine heater and thermister and use that till I can find a mount for the Hemera.

I will set about doing the tuning for each filament and get the macros changed to the correct values for each one.
I did also start to do the macros for the filaments in the DWC too.

I just hope my 1st test print doesn't explode the printer into bits.