Oddly shaped holes?
-
Thanks for posting the pictures!
This is certainly a puzzle. It seems pretty clear that either x or y is not stepping in those flat areas but what is the other stuff going on in these areas. It seems like a combination of issues.
Did you post your config.g? I looked over the thread but couldn't find it .... -
@jens55 Here's the config.g
-
@Surgikill I have a 24 x 8 mm linear guide for the X axis, 608 bearings for pulleys with 8mm bolts as axles, and a direct drive extruder with a 36 mm motor- a bunch of pretty heavy stuff. The X axis weighs about 1.5 kg. I drive the mechanism with two little 64 oz-in NEMA-17 steppers and it can print with acceleration set to 10k and speed at 200 mm/sec.. Of course, I don't ever print at that speed/accel combo, but it demonstrates that you don't need a particularly light assembly to keep the speed up. Extrusion and the behavior of molten plastic will become the limiting factors before the mass of the assembly will if you're using "normal" size steppers to move the mechanism.
If you were building a really big machine to make really big prints, speed might be more of an issue. On a small machine, printing relatively small objects, printing faster doesn't mean the print will finish sooner. Let's say you have a print running at 400 mm/sec with high acceleration so you can actually hit that speed. Even if you manage to get the extruder to work properly at that speed, each layer will finish so fast that you'll have to allow some time for the plastic to cool before depositing the next layer or the print quality will suffer. That means you have to print a sacrificial object, or multiple copies of the print, or just move the extruder away from the print and sit and wait for a while upon completion of each layer. Even at speeds like 80-100 mm/sec, you often have to use those techniques to slow things down a bit to maintain print quality. Print speed is overrated.
Reliability is the thing to shoot for, so you don't have to babysit the printer or restart failed prints. Then you can start up prints when you go to bed at night and they're done when you wake up in the morning. It doesn't matter if they take 1 hour or 6.
-
@mrehorstdmd Makes sense. I might just order some 12mm steel rods. However, I don't think that's the issue. I'm noticing that the 16mm steel rods I have in there right now for the Y axis are sticking? It's kind of weird, like when you drag your finger over a piece of glass or glossy plastic. It kind of sticks, then moves. I can try to take a video of it. Not really sure what is causing it. Any suggestions?
-
@Surgikill There are a few possibilities, but I think you're using bushings on those rails too, no? It may simply be stiction- static friction is always higher than dynamic friction that you get when the bodies are moving relative to each other. It may also be an issue with the angle that the bushing makes with the rail. See: https://www.machinedesign.com/mechanical-motion-systems/article/21836017/linear-bearings-understanding-the-21-ratio-and-how-to-overcome-the-stickslip-phenomenon
-
This post is deleted! -
@mrehorstdmd said in Oddly shaped holes?:
@Surgikill There are a few possibilities, but I think you're using bushings on those rails too, no? It may simply be stiction- static friction is always higher than dynamic friction that you get when the bodies are moving relative to each other. It may also be an issue with the angle that the bushing makes with the rail. See: https://www.machinedesign.com/mechanical-motion-systems/article/21836017/linear-bearings-understanding-the-21-ratio-and-how-to-overcome-the-stickslip-phenomenon
I re-tensioned the belts and slit the bushings like you suggested. With the zip ties, if I tighten them too tight, the bushings lock up around the carbon rod, so the zip ties are just snug. Everything moves freely by hand. This was the test print afterwards (it's TPU filament). I really have no idea what the problem is. Now the curve has shifted around the circle. There's supposed to be a circle, an ellipse, a square, and a hexagon. The dimensions on the X axis are also wrong. They're all supposed to be 12mm. The square is 10.5 wide (X axis) by 11.75 tall (Y axis). Now I'm really confused.
Maybe it's the slicer? I'm using Prusa Slic3r 2.2
-
I just printed this piece out. It looks like a layer shift, but only on one side. I can't really wiggle the hotend/mount. I'm really baffled by this.
-
I had a look at your config file and my hunch did not pan out BUT
Now that you are talking 'sticktion' this points in a similar direction.The signal going to the stepper motors is micro-stepped. Micro steps inherently have limited power. I think what you are seeing is a situation where the stepper has been asked to go to a particular place but there are insufficient micro steps to overcome the sticktion.
Eventually the number of accumulated microsteps get big enough that the stepper overcomes the sticktion and snaps into place. -
@jens55 Can I just up the amperage to the motors a tad? After messing around with the gantry, the sticktion is greatly reduced.
-
@Surgikill You can use 100% of rated motor current if you really want to. Just make sure the board is cooled and your motor mounts can handle the heat. 85% of rated max motor current is recommended.
-
Something that shouldn't is wiggling. Start at the hot-end and try to wiggle it, then the carriage, then the ends of the X axis. Are all the pulleys secure? Are the drive pulleys secure on the motor shafts? Do the belts move up and down while the mechanism is moving? Do the pulley or motor mounts flex?
-
@mrehorstdmd Pulley mounts and motor mounts don't flex. I already checked the set screws on the motor pulley, they're super tight and I loctited them on when I put them in. The hot end wiggles, but it requires a lot of forces, and ultimately the wiggle is from the x carriage flexing. The belts don't appear to be moving up and down.
I just got done with the 30mm calibration cube, and they came out fine EXCEPT. Along the X axis it measures 29.17mm and along the Y axis it measures 29.75. I also aligned a cube diagonally, so none of the sides lined up perfectly with any axis. It was offset by 45 degrees. This one is ALSO out of square, with one side measuring 29.5 and the other side measuring 30.25. Not sure what would cause this. I was sure the diagonal one would come out square all around. Could it be a slicer issue?
Here's some pictures. The only thing I can think of that MIGHT cause an issue is the slight angle on the belt.
I'm guessing here, but seeing as I printed it on a diagonal, and because of the Corexy kinematics, only one stepper is working depending on the diagonal. So that would lead me to believe that it is an issue with one of my motors/their attachments to the belts?
-
Yea, it could possibly be my slicer as well. Now it won't even launch on my desktop. Not sure what the issue is with prusaslicer 2.2
-
from my CNC days, this is a backlash issue
I have zero experience with corexy so have no clue where/what/how but when you see this on a cnc milling machine you have backlash issues
-
@arhi That's what I was thinking but I have no idea where it's coming from. I also can't slice anything right now to test it because prusaslicer won't work.
-
@Surgikill said in Oddly shaped holes?:
@arhi That's what I was thinking but I have no idea where it's coming from.
Some real knowledge about corexy required here. I have none so can't say really. The regular things to check, what I'd check first is how tight are the pulleys on the motors. But I'm sure someone mentioned that in the long thread and that you already changed that as it's really kind of bacis first thing to check. On the other hand, pulleys with loose set screw moving on the flat of the shaft would totally explain this.
I also can't slice anything right now to test it because prusaslicer won't work.
What's wrong with prusa slicer? Starts up and freezes on the start? You have multiple monitors? There is a bug in the nvidia driver for multiple monitors if you try to start some GL features on the non-primary promonitor it will fail. Solution for prusa slicer is open
%APPDATA%\PrusaSlicer\PrusaSlicer.ini(in my case that is
C:\Users\arhimed\AppData\Roaming\PrusaSlicer\PrusaSlicer.ini)and delete the line
window_mainframe = -8; -8; 2576; 1416; 1(it will have of course other numbers therethen start the prusaslicer, it will work ok.
If you move it from your primary screen to another one, next time it will try to start from where you left it off and will not work again (so delete window_mainframe line again for it to start on main screen)
-
@arhi said in Oddly shaped holes?:
@Surgikill said in Oddly shaped holes?:
@arhi That's what I was thinking but I have no idea where it's coming from.
Some real knowledge about corexy required here. I have none so can't say really. The regular things to check, what I'd check first is how tight are the pulleys on the motors. But I'm sure someone mentioned that in the long thread and that you already changed that as it's really kind of bacis first thing to check. On the other hand, pulleys with loose set screw moving on the flat of the shaft would totally explain this.
I also can't slice anything right now to test it because prusaslicer won't work.
What's wrong with prusa slicer? Starts up and freezes on the start? You have multiple monitors? There is a bug in the nvidia driver for multiple monitors if you try to start some GL features on the non-primary promonitor it will fail. Solution for prusa slicer is open
%APPDATA%\PrusaSlicer\PrusaSlicer.ini(in my case that is
C:\Users\arhimed\AppData\Roaming\PrusaSlicer\PrusaSlicer.ini)and delete the line
window_mainframe = -8; -8; 2576; 1416; 1(it will have of course other numbers therethen start the prusaslicer, it will work ok.
If you move it from your primary screen to another one, next time it will try to start from where you left it off and will not work again (so delete window_mainframe line again for it to start on main screen)
AH HA. Thank you for that. Yea it's off the primary monitor. This is dumb. They need to fix that. I like to keep my CAD on the main monitor and have PrusaSlicer on the secondary.
I can re-check the pulley on the motors, but all the set screws seem tight as balls. I'm thinking it might just be one motor causing the issue, because of the box I printed on the diagonal being more out of dimensions than the box aligned with the axes. (If you turn only one motor on a corexy, it will move the head along a 45 degree diagonal)
-
I just loosened all the belts, re-squared the entire gantry, re-tensioned all the belts and it's still having problems. I've re-designed the Y to X gantry adapters so I can lock the carbon rods into them and see if that fixes it.
-
@Surgikill said in Oddly shaped holes?:
AH HA. Thank you for that. Yea it's off the primary monitor. This is dumb. They need to fix that. I like to keep my CAD on the main monitor and have PrusaSlicer on the secondary.
You of course have NVidia card and Windows 10
the only combo that have this issue. You will have the same bug with Simplify3D, Netfabb, Craftware, IdeaMaker ... it's a bug in nvidia driver GLshort bug description
If I have openGL application that want to start on screen that is not primary the application will fail to start (it will get stuck running SwapBuffers() for the first time). If you start the application on the primary screen it will start ok, you can now move it to the other screens and it will run normally, the only issue is initializing the GL canvas inside the application, after it is initialized it will run ok.
The issue is with any app trying to initialize GLCanvas on non primary screen. It's there for more than a year and NVidia don't give a #$%^_& about it
I can re-check the pulley on the motors, but all the set screws seem tight as balls.
No clue. Maybe one motor is losing steps, maybe one motor is broken, dunno really, never used corexy so really even my guess here is not very useful. I just chimed in 'cause that image looks like what you can see with heavy backlash on CNC and 'cause the nvidia bug. I'm following up as I'm interested in what's the culprit but can't help.
