ABS print help first time at ABS



  • Need some advice on printing with ABS, this is my fist attempt at it...
    and there is some curves on one or two side from bottom up.. tried a bunch of setting's but still there..

    Duet 2 with firmware ver 2.05 and S3D, have the bed set to 110 and tried the hotend form 235 to 250
    Printer is enclosed also..
    some of my settings
    layer height .2
    top solid 5
    bottom solid 5
    outline 2
    first layer height 80%
    first layer width 50%
    first layer speed 50%
    retract distance 5.0
    extra retract -1
    vertical lift 2.0
    coasting distance 1.0

    The cube measures ok just a hair over 20mm all the way around

    I have PLA dialed in just can't seem to get the ABS

    IMG_20200618_213356993.jpg IMG_20200618_213347765_BURST000_COVER.jpg IMG_20200618_213341912.jpg IMG_20200618_213405670.jpg IMG_20200618_213412887.jpg

    Thanks gary



  • Try printing two of them in one go, maybe 10 cm apart on the bed.

    Part of the problem is that the so-called calibration cube is very small. Each layer finishes quickly, and before the last layer cools, the nozzle comes around around again and dumps more hot plastic on it. That leads to soft looking prints.

    I don't know what all the %s mean. % of what? It's usually better to specify a meaningful number, like "line width: 0.4 mm" because it provides useful information that a % does not.



  • After 2 years of digging with abs and than ASA i build up some "experience" and I try to share it.
    Unfortunately abs , like ASA, are beast to deal with. They have "a lot" of material retraction depending on temperature. (ApolloX have a little less bending but is expensive)
    So , start to become far more important all the temps on the field.
    Bed adhesion must be strong. Really strong and despite the part didn't detach from the bed the part could cum still a little bended.
    This depend also by the bed temp. And are two different banding causes , bed and volume air.
    Lots of guides tell you the the bed temp should be close the class transition (100degree) but in my experience 100/110degree are too hight and the first 5mm of the part come always severely bended (big prints). I discovered that a good adhesion and 80/85 degree (for all the surface of the bed - used thermo-camera and modded bed resistor for achieve this) produce a better result. Still no perfect , but ok till the hot chamber will be finished .
    Yes, because you probably will need an hot chamber (the enclosure alone could not be enough). I can't say the exact temp you need to reach inside because depend also by your specific material.
    By your pictures seems that the bed temp is too hight (could be confirmed also by the guide in the bottom link).
    https://support.3dverkstan.se/article/23-a-visual-ultimaker-troubleshooting-guide#wallcavein
    And...I found useful print with "draft". If you modify this setting properly (Cura slicer) the heat of the bed come a little less on the part avoiding too much different from the top layers and the first.
    With small parts , "brim" could be sufficient.
    Also, air on the part must be avoided (of course not if the part is really small). So check if your tool fan don't create turbulence.
    Because of this the good suggestion of mrehorstdmd of print more part at ones could be useful.
    By the first pictures seems not even regular the two corners (one convex and the other concave) and this is not because the temps but geometric calibration.
    All the parts have their specific setting and attention required. Some doesn't need particular work on but others are really tricky.
    Especially block and infill at 100% generate lots of tensions.
    If you want print only one small part Maybe you could try to print the cube test with draft and the part fan on at low percentage.
    With low object (till 1cm or so), there is no problem , but when the part rise the tensions become stressful.
    Also the design of the part will make a good part in the full equilibrium of the print.

    Here there are good suggestions that can help you to found you specific settings.

    https://support.3dverkstan.se/article/23-a-visual-ultimaker-troubleshooting-guide



  • Thanks for the help.

    I switched to cura to test it out.

    Also tried a larger part to print it was going well till it was about 5mm up and the abs must have melted and got stuck in the chamber and stopped extruding, cura has so many setting's i'm baffled and overwhelmed so far the only thing that sticks out is the retraction in cura was set to 6.5 maybe to much. any suggestion's on setting up cura for a delta printer its a homemade one so will most likely have to make a custom profile...

    Thanks gary



  • @gorf26 here's S3D configuration for ABS that works like a charm on bunch of my printers (.4mm nozzle) just copy the content into a text file, save as .fff and import into s3d

    <?xml version="1.0"?>
    <profile name="ABS" version="2020-05-16 09:00:46" app="S3D-Software 4.1.2">
      <baseProfile>Default</baseProfile>
      <printMaterial>ABS</printMaterial>
      <printQuality>Medium</printQuality>
      <printExtruders></printExtruders>
      <extruder name="Extruder 1">
        <toolheadNumber>0</toolheadNumber>
        <diameter>0.4</diameter>
        <autoWidth>1</autoWidth>
        <width>0.48</width>
        <extrusionMultiplier>1.15</extrusionMultiplier>
        <useRetract>1</useRetract>
        <retractionDistance>0.15</retractionDistance>
        <extraRestartDistance>-0.05</extraRestartDistance>
        <retractionZLift>0</retractionZLift>
        <retractionSpeed>1800</retractionSpeed>
        <useCoasting>1</useCoasting>
        <coastingDistance>0.3</coastingDistance>
        <useWipe>1</useWipe>
        <wipeDistance>0.2</wipeDistance>
      </extruder>
      <primaryExtruder>0</primaryExtruder>
      <layerHeight>0.25</layerHeight>
      <topSolidLayers>10</topSolidLayers>
      <bottomSolidLayers>10</bottomSolidLayers>
      <perimeterOutlines>10</perimeterOutlines>
      <printPerimetersInsideOut>1</printPerimetersInsideOut>
      <startPointOption>2</startPointOption>
      <startPointOriginX>0</startPointOriginX>
      <startPointOriginY>0</startPointOriginY>
      <sequentialIslands>0</sequentialIslands>
      <spiralVaseMode>0</spiralVaseMode>
      <firstLayerHeightPercentage>100</firstLayerHeightPercentage>
      <firstLayerWidthPercentage>100</firstLayerWidthPercentage>
      <firstLayerUnderspeed>0.25</firstLayerUnderspeed>
      <useRaft>0</useRaft>
      <raftExtruder>0</raftExtruder>
      <raftTopLayers>3</raftTopLayers>
      <raftBaseLayers>2</raftBaseLayers>
      <raftOffset>3</raftOffset>
      <raftSeparationDistance>0.14</raftSeparationDistance>
      <raftTopInfill>100</raftTopInfill>
      <aboveRaftSpeedMultiplier>0.3</aboveRaftSpeedMultiplier>
      <useSkirt>1</useSkirt>
      <skirtExtruder>0</skirtExtruder>
      <skirtLayers>1</skirtLayers>
      <skirtOutlines>5</skirtOutlines>
      <skirtOffset>0</skirtOffset>
      <usePrimePillar>0</usePrimePillar>
      <primePillarExtruder>999</primePillarExtruder>
      <primePillarWidth>12</primePillarWidth>
      <primePillarLocation>7</primePillarLocation>
      <primePillarSpeedMultiplier>1</primePillarSpeedMultiplier>
      <useOozeShield>0</useOozeShield>
      <oozeShieldExtruder>999</oozeShieldExtruder>
      <oozeShieldOffset>2</oozeShieldOffset>
      <oozeShieldOutlines>1</oozeShieldOutlines>
      <oozeShieldSidewallShape>1</oozeShieldSidewallShape>
      <oozeShieldSidewallAngle>30</oozeShieldSidewallAngle>
      <oozeShieldSpeedMultiplier>1</oozeShieldSpeedMultiplier>
      <infillExtruder>0</infillExtruder>
      <internalInfillPattern>Rectilinear</internalInfillPattern>
      <externalInfillPattern>Rectilinear</externalInfillPattern>
      <infillPercentage>60</infillPercentage>
      <outlineOverlapPercentage>15</outlineOverlapPercentage>
      <infillExtrusionWidthPercentage>100</infillExtrusionWidthPercentage>
      <minInfillLength>5</minInfillLength>
      <infillLayerInterval>1</infillLayerInterval>
      <internalInfillAngles>45,-45</internalInfillAngles>
      <overlapInternalInfillAngles>0</overlapInternalInfillAngles>
      <externalInfillAngles>45,-45</externalInfillAngles>
      <generateSupport>1</generateSupport>
      <supportExtruder>0</supportExtruder>
      <supportInfillPercentage>20</supportInfillPercentage>
      <supportExtraInflation>2</supportExtraInflation>
      <supportBaseLayers>4</supportBaseLayers>
      <denseSupportExtruder>0</denseSupportExtruder>
      <denseSupportLayers>6</denseSupportLayers>
      <denseSupportInfillPercentage>80</denseSupportInfillPercentage>
      <supportLayerInterval>1</supportLayerInterval>
      <supportHorizontalPartOffset>1</supportHorizontalPartOffset>
      <supportUpperSeparationLayers>2</supportUpperSeparationLayers>
      <supportLowerSeparationLayers>1</supportLowerSeparationLayers>
      <supportType>0</supportType>
      <supportGridSpacing>4</supportGridSpacing>
      <maxOverhangAngle>45</maxOverhangAngle>
      <supportAngles>0</supportAngles>
      <temperatureController name="Extruder 1">
        <temperatureNumber>0</temperatureNumber>
        <isHeatedBed>0</isHeatedBed>
        <stabilizeAtStartup>1</stabilizeAtStartup>
        <setpoint layer="1" temperature="255"/>
        <setpoint layer="2" temperature="240"/>
      </temperatureController>
      <temperatureController name="Heated Bed">
        <temperatureNumber>0</temperatureNumber>
        <isHeatedBed>1</isHeatedBed>
        <stabilizeAtStartup>1</stabilizeAtStartup>
        <setpoint layer="1" temperature="100"/>
      </temperatureController>
      <fanSpeed>
        <setpoint layer="1" speed="0"/>
        <setpoint layer="20" speed="20"/>
      </fanSpeed>
      <blipFanToFullPower>1</blipFanToFullPower>
      <adjustSpeedForCooling>1</adjustSpeedForCooling>
      <minSpeedLayerTime>15</minSpeedLayerTime>
      <minCoolingSpeedSlowdown>20</minCoolingSpeedSlowdown>
      <increaseFanForCooling>0</increaseFanForCooling>
      <minFanLayerTime>45</minFanLayerTime>
      <maxCoolingFanSpeed>100</maxCoolingFanSpeed>
      <increaseFanForBridging>0</increaseFanForBridging>
      <bridgingFanSpeed>100</bridgingFanSpeed>
      <use5D>1</use5D>
      <relativeEdistances>0</relativeEdistances>
      <allowEaxisZeroing>1</allowEaxisZeroing>
      <independentExtruderAxes>0</independentExtruderAxes>
      <includeM10123>0</includeM10123>
      <stickySupport>1</stickySupport>
      <applyToolheadOffsets>0</applyToolheadOffsets>
      <gcodeXoffset>0</gcodeXoffset>
      <gcodeYoffset>0</gcodeYoffset>
      <gcodeZoffset>0</gcodeZoffset>
      <overrideMachineDefinition>1</overrideMachineDefinition>
      <machineTypeOverride>0</machineTypeOverride>
      <strokeXoverride>140</strokeXoverride>
      <strokeYoverride>140</strokeYoverride>
      <strokeZoverride>135</strokeZoverride>
      <originOffsetXoverride>0</originOffsetXoverride>
      <originOffsetYoverride>0</originOffsetYoverride>
      <originOffsetZoverride>0</originOffsetZoverride>
      <homeXdirOverride>-1</homeXdirOverride>
      <homeYdirOverride>-1</homeYdirOverride>
      <homeZdirOverride>-1</homeZdirOverride>
      <flipXoverride>1</flipXoverride>
      <flipYoverride>-1</flipYoverride>
      <flipZoverride>1</flipZoverride>
      <toolheadOffsets>0,0|0,0|0,0|0,0|0,0|0,0</toolheadOffsets>
      <overrideFirmwareConfiguration>1</overrideFirmwareConfiguration>
      <firmwareTypeOverride>RepRap (Marlin/Repetier/Sprinter)</firmwareTypeOverride>
      <GPXconfigOverride>r2</GPXconfigOverride>
      <baudRateOverride>115200</baudRateOverride>
      <overridePrinterModels>0</overridePrinterModels>
      <printerModelsOverride></printerModelsOverride>
      <startingGcode>M17,G28,G28 Z,M200 D0,</startingGcode>
      <layerChangeGcode></layerChangeGcode>
      <retractionGcode></retractionGcode>
      <toolChangeGcode></toolChangeGcode>
      <endingGcode>M104 S0 ; turn off extruder,M140 S0 ; turn off bed,M84 ; disable motors</endingGcode>
      <exportFileFormat>gcode</exportFileFormat>
      <celebration>0</celebration>
      <celebrationSong>Random Song</celebrationSong>
      <postProcessing>g:\Dev\eclipse-workspace\gcodestat\gs.bat &quot;[output_filepath]&quot;</postProcessing>
      <defaultSpeed>2400</defaultSpeed>
      <outlineUnderspeed>1</outlineUnderspeed>
      <solidInfillUnderspeed>1</solidInfillUnderspeed>
      <supportUnderspeed>1</supportUnderspeed>
      <rapidXYspeed>4800</rapidXYspeed>
      <rapidZspeed>900</rapidZspeed>
      <minBridgingArea>5</minBridgingArea>
      <bridgingExtraInflation>10</bridgingExtraInflation>
      <bridgingExtrusionMultiplier>2</bridgingExtrusionMultiplier>
      <bridgingSpeedMultiplier>0.5</bridgingSpeedMultiplier>
      <useFixedBridgingAngle>0</useFixedBridgingAngle>
      <fixedBridgingAngle>0</fixedBridgingAngle>
      <applyBridgingToPerimeters>1</applyBridgingToPerimeters>
      <filamentDiameters>1.75|1.75|1.75|1.75|1.75|1.75</filamentDiameters>
      <filamentPricesPerKg>46|46|46|46|46|46</filamentPricesPerKg>
      <filamentDensities>1.25|1.25|1.25|1.25|1.25|1.25</filamentDensities>
      <useMinPrintHeight>0</useMinPrintHeight>
      <minPrintHeight>0</minPrintHeight>
      <useMaxPrintHeight>0</useMaxPrintHeight>
      <maxPrintHeight>0</maxPrintHeight>
      <useDiaphragm>0</useDiaphragm>
      <diaphragmLayerInterval>20</diaphragmLayerInterval>
      <robustSlicing>1</robustSlicing>
      <mergeAllIntoSolid>0</mergeAllIntoSolid>
      <onlyRetractWhenCrossingOutline>1</onlyRetractWhenCrossingOutline>
      <retractBetweenLayers>1</retractBetweenLayers>
      <useRetractionMinTravel>0</useRetractionMinTravel>
      <retractionMinTravel>3</retractionMinTravel>
      <retractWhileWiping>0</retractWhileWiping>
      <onlyWipeOutlines>1</onlyWipeOutlines>
      <avoidCrossingOutline>1</avoidCrossingOutline>
      <maxMovementDetourFactor>989</maxMovementDetourFactor>
      <toolChangeRetractionDistance>12</toolChangeRetractionDistance>
      <toolChangeExtraRestartDistance>-0.5</toolChangeExtraRestartDistance>
      <toolChangeRetractionSpeed>600</toolChangeRetractionSpeed>
      <externalThinWallType>0</externalThinWallType>
      <internalThinWallType>2</internalThinWallType>
      <thinWallAllowedOverlapPercentage>30</thinWallAllowedOverlapPercentage>
      <singleExtrusionMinLength>1</singleExtrusionMinLength>
      <singleExtrusionMinPrintingWidthPercentage>30</singleExtrusionMinPrintingWidthPercentage>
      <singleExtrusionMaxPrintingWidthPercentage>200</singleExtrusionMaxPrintingWidthPercentage>
      <singleExtrusionEndpointExtension>0.2</singleExtrusionEndpointExtension>
      <horizontalSizeCompensation>0</horizontalSizeCompensation>
      <autoConfigureMaterial name="ABS">
        <temperatureController name="Extruder 1">
          <temperatureNumber>0</temperatureNumber>
          <isHeatedBed>0</isHeatedBed>
          <stabilizeAtStartup>1</stabilizeAtStartup>
          <setpoint layer="1" temperature="255"/>
          <setpoint layer="2" temperature="240"/>
        </temperatureController>
        <globalBedTemperature>100</globalBedTemperature>
        <globalExtrusionMultiplier>1.15</globalExtrusionMultiplier>
        <fanSpeed>
          <setpoint layer="1" speed="0"/>
          <setpoint layer="20" speed="20"/>
        </fanSpeed>
      </autoConfigureMaterial>
      <autoConfigureQuality name="Fast">
        <layerHeight>0.3</layerHeight>
        <topSolidLayers>3</topSolidLayers>
        <bottomSolidLayers>3</bottomSolidLayers>
        <skirtLayers>1</skirtLayers>
        <infillPercentage>15</infillPercentage>
        <supportInfillPercentage>25</supportInfillPercentage>
      </autoConfigureQuality>
      <autoConfigureQuality name="Medium">
        <layerHeight>0.25</layerHeight>
        <topSolidLayers>10</topSolidLayers>
        <bottomSolidLayers>10</bottomSolidLayers>
        <skirtLayers>1</skirtLayers>
        <infillPercentage>60</infillPercentage>
        <supportInfillPercentage>20</supportInfillPercentage>
      </autoConfigureQuality>
      <autoConfigureQuality name="High">
        <layerHeight>0.1</layerHeight>
        <topSolidLayers>4</topSolidLayers>
        <bottomSolidLayers>4</bottomSolidLayers>
        <skirtLayers>2</skirtLayers>
        <infillPercentage>30</infillPercentage>
        <supportInfillPercentage>40</supportInfillPercentage>
      </autoConfigureQuality>
    </profile>
    


  • 10 solid layers top and bottom?

    😬

    If you really really really want to print in ABS

    (please don't, it horrible and smells of cancer)

    If you really really have to.
    Heated chamber, heated to at least 60C. Depending on your part, maybe 80C.
    And as @giostark said, you'll want to bring the bed temp back down with a heated chamber.
    Plus buy a filament dryer, ABS sucks up moisture. Not as bad as nylon, but unless you are using a roll in a week or two, you'll see an effect.

    I've printed a couple of odd projects (very solid things) from ABS (and built a heated chamber to do it), but unless I have no other material option I never use it. Not worth the trouble. And it used to be the only thing I used, before PLA became widely available.



  • Set the no of top/bottom layers, perimeters and infill ratio to what you need 😄 (I do a lot of construction parts out of ABS so strength is required so a lot of top/bottom/shells)

    For parts smaller than 5x5cm you don't need any chamber, just be sure there's no draft

    15x15cm you can easily print in chamber that's not heated, just enclosed and heated passivly from your bed&hotend (30C works, 40C more than enough)

    For large complex parts you want heated chamber and 70C but for the test cube that's shown in the first post no chamber required.



  • @theruttmeister I've printed ABS almost exclusively for the last 7 years. 50C in the chamber will prevent delamination of even large prints. It doesn't smell so good, but as for cancer...smell or lack of smell is not an indicator of safety. There are plenty of things you can't smell that are bad for you and plenty of things you can smell that aren't. Pleasantness of an odor is also not an indication of safety.

    ABS absorbs less moisture than PLA or PETG or nylon. ABS adsorbs moisture- it sticks to the surface without penetrating the filament deeply- much less of a problem than absorption. Since you rarely print with ABS, your spool probably sits unused for months at a time. That doesn't work well for any filament. Store it in a dry box when not using it, and use it in a reasonable amount of time (maybe within a few months) and it will be fine.

    ABS is no more difficult to print than PLA (except you don't have to mess with print cooling fans) if your printer can be closed (a bag, a box, etc.) and gets up to 50C or so. Small ABS prints and even large single walled vases work OK on open machines.



  • IMG_20200621_091556258.jpg
    IMG_20200621_091615787.jpg

    This is my latest attempt with cura printed the complete part don't see any curved edges..
    But looks like the brim stuck to good, and any place that there were supports seemed to melt together to much
    and looks like the layers have a little round or bulge as they go up but it seems solid and strong..

    I will check out the S3D profile also..

    Thanks gary



  • @mrehorstdmd said in ABS print help first time at ABS:

    @theruttmeister I've printed ABS almost exclusively for the last 7 years. 50C in the chamber will prevent delamination of even large prints. It doesn't smell so good, but as for cancer...smell or lack of smell is not an indicator of safety. There are plenty of things you can't smell that are bad for you and plenty of things you can smell that aren't. Pleasantness of an odor is also not an indication of safety.

    ABS is a blend of three polymers, one suspected carcinogen, one 'probable' carcinogen and a known carcinogen. Given what we know about micro-particle emissions from 3D printers, the professional advice I have given for some time is to not print ABS without a HEPA filtered enclosed printer.

    ABS absorbs less moisture than PLA or PETG or nylon. ABS adsorbs moisture- it sticks to the surface without penetrating the filament deeply- much less of a problem than absorption. Since you rarely print with ABS, your spool probably sits unused for months at a time. That doesn't work well for any filament. Store it in a dry box when not using it, and use it in a reasonable amount of time (maybe within a few months) and it will be fine.

    I don't print with ABS. I used to, and I have used it for specific projects where the client needed ABS (like a tube with solid 30mm thick walls, 300mm tall, so I've dealt with difficult prints). And nothing absorbs more moisture than nylon! Its basically a sponge! If you really care about mechanical properties, you should be drying your filament no matter what. Melt processing with moisture in the polymer can have dramatic effects on molecular weight.

    ABS is no more difficult to print than PLA (except you don't have to mess with print cooling fans) if your printer can be closed (a bag, a box, etc.) and gets up to 50C or so. Small ABS prints and even large single walled vases work OK on open machines.

    That's a very large IF...
    😀
    ABS is an amorphous polymer, it will ALWAYS be more difficult to print with than semi-crystalline polymers. A printer that can produce useable parts 150mm long from ABS will be able to print far larger parts in PLA or PET, or even the right blend of Nylon.

    People absolutely can use ABS, and do so with success. I'm not disputing that.
    But unless you need the chemical solubility of ABS, or it meets a specific regulatory requirement, there are multiple polymers that are less technically demanding to work with.

    But then I print anything I need to be structural from NylonX... cause it looks nice.


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