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    Stall detection with 2 motors

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    Duet Hardware and wiring
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    • Phaedruxundefined
      Phaedrux Moderator
      last edited by

      Post your config.g and homing files.

      Trying to stall multiple motors at the same time is problematic.

      For reference: https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Stall_detection_and_sensorless_homing

      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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      • noisettetbouundefined
        noisettetbou @Phaedrux
        last edited by

        @Phaedrux
        Config.g :
        ; Drives
        M569 P0 S1 ; physical drive 0 goes forwards
        M569 P1 S1 ; physical drive 1 goes forwards
        M569 P2 S1 ; physical drive 2 goes forwards
        M569 P3 S1 ; physical drive 3 goes forwards
        M569 P4 S1 ; physical drive 4 goes forwards
        M584 X0 Y1 Z2 E3:4 ; set drive mapping
        M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16:16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation
        M92 X53.33 Y106.67 Z106.67 E415.00:415.00 ; set steps per mm
        M566 X900 Y900 Z300 E120:120 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
        M203 X18000 Y18000 Z6000 E1200:1200 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
        M201 X500 Y500 Z300 E250:250 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
        M906 X2000 Y2100 Z1800 E700:700 I30 ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
        M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout

        ; Axis Limits
        M208 X-210 Y-210 Z0 S1 ; set axis minima
        M208 X210 Y210 Z510 S0 ; set axis maxima

        ; Endstops
        M574 X1 S3 ; configure sensorless endstop for low end on X
        M574 Y1 S3 ; configure sensorless endstop for low end on Y
        ; M574 Z1 S2 ; configure Z-probe endstop for low end on Z
        M574 Z2 S3 ; configure Z-probe endstop for high end on Z
        M915 X S0 F0 R0 ; configure stall detection X
        M915 Y S0 F0 R0 ; configure stall detection Y
        M915 Z S0 F0 R0 ; configure stall detection Z

        HomeY.g
        M913 Y50 ; reduce current
        M400
        G1 H1 Y-450 F12000 ; move X axis endstop
        M913 Y100 ; increase current
        G90 ; absolute positioning

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        • noisettetbouundefined
          noisettetbou @Phaedrux
          last edited by

          @Phaedrux
          I understand trying to stall multiple motors at the same time is problematic but it's work on my other printer (nema23) and on my X axis on this one.
          The only differences on this printer (nema17) with the 2 motors of X are the 2 motors of Y turn in opposate direction and are slightly stronger.

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          • Phaedruxundefined
            Phaedrux Moderator
            last edited by

            You're missing an H value from your M915. Did you calculate it?

            https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Stall_detection_and_sensorless_homing#Section_Minimum_recommended_speed_for_stall_detection

            @noisettetbou said in Stall detection with 2 motors:

            M574 X1 S3 ; configure sensorless endstop for low end on X
            M574 Y1 S3 ; configure sensorless endstop for low end on Y

            You say you're using 3.1.1 but your config is using syntax for RRF2.

            Please send M115 and confirm what firmware you're actually using.

            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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            • noisettetbouundefined
              noisettetbou @Phaedrux
              last edited by

              @Phaedrux
              09/09/2020 à 21:53:09 M115
              FIRMWARE_NAME: RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet FIRMWARE_VERSION: 3.1.1 ELECTRONICS: Duet WiFi 1.02 or later FIRMWARE_DATE: 2020-05-19b2

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              • noisettetbouundefined
                noisettetbou @Phaedrux
                last edited by

                @Phaedrux
                And I've tryed M574 Y1 S4 and indicate some differents M915 H parameters but no change. Force on endstop or false detection.

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                • Phaedruxundefined
                  Phaedrux Moderator
                  last edited by

                  Well what behaviour do you want when a stall is detected? stop both motors or stop each individually?

                  https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M574_RepRapFirmware_Num_3

                  New endstop type S4 means use motor stall detection (like S3) but if there are multiple motors, stop each one individually as it stalls. S3 means use motor stall detection but as in RRF 2: stop all relevant motors when the first one stalls.

                  What did you calculate for the H value?

                  Can you send M98 P"config.g" in the gcode console and report the results?

                  Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                  • noisettetbouundefined
                    noisettetbou @Phaedrux
                    last edited by noisettetbou

                    @Phaedrux
                    And I'm not sure of my calculation of the H parameter and speed. This is my Y motors (2 in series) of my Y axis specifications :
                    Spécification électrique
                    Numéro de pièce du fabricant: 17HS24-2104D
                    Type de moteur: Bipolar Stepper
                    Angle de pas: 1.8 deg
                    Couple de maintien: 65Ncm(92.3oz.in)
                    Courant/phase: 2.10A
                    Tension: 3.360V
                    Résistance/phase: 1.60ohms
                    Inductance: 3.00mH ± 20%(1KHz)

                    I've found more than 1000 mm/s. It's crazy !

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                    • noisettetbouundefined
                      noisettetbou @Phaedrux
                      last edited by

                      @Phaedrux said in Stall detection with 2 motors:

                      Well what behaviour do you want when a stall is detected? stop both motors or stop each individually?

                      I want to stop both motors. No choice, they're in series on the same driver.
                      This is the results of my M98 P"config.g" :
                      09/09/2020 à 22:16:49 M98 P"config.g"
                      HTTP is enabled on port 80
                      FTP is disabled
                      TELNET is disabled
                      Warning: Heater 0 appears to be over-powered. If left on at full power, its temperature is predicted to reach 365C
                      Warning: Heater 0 appears to be over-powered. If left on at full power, its temperature is predicted to reach 269C

                      Note my My PID aren't done for heaters errors.

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                      • Phaedruxundefined
                        Phaedrux Moderator @noisettetbou
                        last edited by Phaedrux

                        @noisettetbou said in Stall detection with 2 motors:

                        I've found more than 1000 mm/s. It's crazy !

                        That seems wrong based on your motor specs. My calculation gives 145mm/s

                        b06c2710-6e30-4399-b172-89ab830a5ef1-image.png

                        Stall detection H value			
                        Hmin = full_steps_per_rev * rated_current * actual_current/(sqrt(2) * pi * rated_holding_torque)			
                        Full_steps_per_rev	200		
                        Rated_current (A)	2.100		
                        Actual_Current (A)	1.000		
                        Rated_holding_torque (Nm)	0.650		
                        Squareroot(2)	1.414		
                        Pi	3.142		
                        Hmin	145.436
                        

                        You may be able to reduce that speed further if you reduce the motor current further. You should try reducing it as much as possible such that you still have reliable movement. Right now you're using 50%, try 30%.

                        Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                        • noisettetbouundefined
                          noisettetbou @Phaedrux
                          last edited by

                          @Phaedrux
                          Thanks for the calculation. I've confused the units of torque.

                          I've tried speeds up to 300 mm/s and differents current between 20 and 100% but nothing.

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                          • Phaedruxundefined
                            Phaedrux Moderator
                            last edited by

                            When you say the motors rotate in opposite directions, what do you mean?

                            Can you post a photo of the printer?

                            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                            • noisettetbouundefined
                              noisettetbou @Phaedrux
                              last edited by noisettetbou

                              @Phaedrux
                              That's a link to a photo of Y axis :
                              https://photos.app.goo.gl/oeFLBnE1iaKtcJMNA
                              The motors are biaxials and synchonysed by a shaft

                              oliofundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • oliofundefined
                                oliof @noisettetbou
                                last edited by oliof

                                @noisettetbou possibly crazy talk but could you disable one stepper for homing only? As they're synchronized by a shaft you should be able to live with that.

                                <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

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                                • noisettetbouundefined
                                  noisettetbou @oliof
                                  last edited by

                                  @oliof
                                  It's a good idea. I've tried and it is the same problem.
                                  So 2 motors on same driver and the series wiring aren't the source of the problem.
                                  I'm trying to invert drivers.

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                                  • noisettetbouundefined
                                    noisettetbou @noisettetbou
                                    last edited by

                                    I've tried to invert driver with X and always the problem. As if my Y motors aren't compatibles with the stall detection.
                                    Is it possible ? Crazy, no ?

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                                    • oliofundefined
                                      oliof
                                      last edited by

                                      Oh two steppers on a single driver? I can see how that will be bothersome/impossible. Maybe if you drive each motor independently ...

                                      <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

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                                      • noisettetbouundefined
                                        noisettetbou @oliof
                                        last edited by

                                        @oliof
                                        It's no a problem if current is respected. I use two motors on same driver in X axis and no problem. And I done as you said for trying, so there is only one motor right now, and no good stall detection...

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                                        • Phaedruxundefined
                                          Phaedrux Moderator
                                          last edited by

                                          I think an endstop switch might be in your future.

                                          Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                                          • noisettetbouundefined
                                            noisettetbou @Phaedrux
                                            last edited by

                                            @Phaedrux
                                            I think too... 😢 but I would like to understand

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