Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1
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@jayjay the problem was that the moment we announced to the user base that we are working on a new version with more features, there was a risk that our resellers would be left with old stock that they can't sell. So we were trying to let stocks of the v1.0 tool board run out before we announced the V1.1. It's not fair on our resellers to leave them with old stock, and our margins are not big enough for us to scrap and write off a large number of older boards in the supply chain.
I guess we could have increased the price of the v1.1, but we didn't want to do that.
Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com -
@dc42 Totally understandable. Nevertheless, I would be happy to pay 5-10 euro more for V1.1 to finance someone else getting the same amount off on a V1.0...
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@dc42 said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@jayjay the problem was that the moment we announced to the user base that we are working on a new version with more features, there was a risk that our resellers would be left with old stock that they can't sell. So we were trying to let stocks of the v1.0 tool board run out before we announced the V1.1. It's not fair on our resellers to leave them with old stock, and our margins are not big enough for us to scrap and write off a large number of older boards in the supply chain.
I guess we could have increased the price of the v1.1, but we didn't want to do that.
This reply highlights a management issue, you "should" have managed the roll out better and requested that ALL resellers advertised stock at the same time, in this manner EU/UK customers have been penalized and US customers have been placed in a privileged position.
E3D are listing as having no stock on their website but I have the following in writing : "we are still awaiting Duet3D to supply us with stock and expect to have stock mid to late march, please keep an eye on our website"
As for waiting for re-seller to deplete "old stock" how are customers going to feel after buying a v1.0 for a week later to find an updated version only became available after the reseller offloaded their old stock......
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@jayjay said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
As for waiting for re-seller to deplete "old stock" how are customers going to feel after buying a v1.0 for a week later to find an updated version only became available after the reseller offloaded their old stock......
What solution so you suggest? Should we refrain from ever improving products?
Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com -
@dc42 said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@jayjay said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
As for waiting for re-seller to deplete "old stock" how are customers going to feel after buying a v1.0 for a week later to find an updated version only became available after the reseller offloaded their old stock......
What solution so you suggest? Should we refrain from ever improving products?
I already suggested what "should" have been done, and that is to manage the roll out properly by requesting that ALL resellers go "live" with the product at the SAME time.
The manner in which Duet3D carried out the product launch penalized/disadvantaged EU/UK Customers while privileging and providing an advantage to US Customers.
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@jayjay What in the world?
This is not a case of one country’s customers being treated differently from another. Resellers are free to order stock whenever they want. Your blaming Duet3D doesn’t make any sense, are you stating that Duet3D should force resellers to buy product? That would certainly be an interesting business model.
Conversely, are resellers supposed to wait and hold their stock until all resellers have ordered? That would result in some markets having to wait longer for the newest technology, because another reseller did not order quickly. What happens if a reseller doesn’t want to carry a product? Then other resellers have ordered and paid for something they can’t sell?
If you are displeased that your desired reseller does not carry the product you want, ask them to order it. If they don’t order/carry things fast enough for your liking, look at another reseller.
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@jayjay said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
As for waiting for re-seller to deplete "old stock" how are customers going to feel after buying a v1.0 for a week later to find an updated version only became available after the reseller offloaded their old stock......
Do you also get this upset when you buy a coffeemaker and a new model with an extra feature comes out a week later?
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@elmoret said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@jayjay What in the world?
This is not a case of one country’s customers being treated differently from another. Resellers are free to order stock whenever they want. Your blaming Duet3D doesn’t make any sense, are you stating that Duet3D should force resellers to buy product? That would certainly be an interesting business model.
Conversely, are resellers supposed to wait and hold their stock until all resellers have ordered? That would result in some markets having to wait longer for the newest technology, because another reseller did not order quickly. What happens if a reseller doesn’t want to carry a product? Then other resellers have ordered and paid for something they can’t sell?
If you are displeased that your desired reseller does not carry the product you want, ask them to order it. If they don’t order/carry things fast enough for your liking, look at another reseller.
In this instance EU/UK customers are being FORCED to wait longer for newer technology, Duet3D either wants to sell product or it does not, UK/EU customers ARE 100% FORCED to buy from "re-sellers" just take a look at the Duet3D website for that fact in their own words:
We are still not undertaking direct sales due to the COVID-19 situation. In the mean time please purchase Duet3D products from our resellers, see https://www.duet3d.com/GenuineResellers for a full list.
Our retail sales staff fall into the UK Government’s at-risk category for severe Coronavirus infections. They are therefore continuing measures to minimize their possible exposure to the virus. We thank you for your understanding.
That means that if the reseller is not stocking or advertising products then EU/UK customers CANNOT purchase items, that is a FACT.
But this then begs the question: if they are unable to ship orders placed via "direct sales" to customers how do they manage to ship to re-sellers ? in the Administrators own words "we are shipping them out as fast as we get them!"
You cant have it Both Ways either you put in place a system where the components are available or you dont, the only other alternative left open to EU/UK customers is to purchase from a reseller that is advertising stock and in this case as of yesterday that was only Filastruder a US retailer, so if a EU/UK customer would like to make a purchase they must either wait until who knows when for a EU/UK retailer to eventually carry stock, or purchase from the US supplier and possibly incur the extra shipping and VAT/Duty costs.
So YES EU/UK customers ARE being penalized through NO fault of their own, as Duet3D is 100% forcing customers to purchase via re-sellers, if you cannot see that then there is no point in discussing this further with you are you are sadly unable to see reason.
Also it is very telling that telling the truth is frowned upon.
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@elmoret said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@jayjay said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
As for waiting for re-seller to deplete "old stock" how are customers going to feel after buying a v1.0 for a week later to find an updated version only became available after the reseller offloaded their old stock......
Do you also get this upset when you buy a coffeemaker and a new model with an extra feature comes out a week later?
I would kindly request that you do not start making personal attacks please
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@jayjay said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@elmoret said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@jayjay What in the world?
This is not a case of one country’s customers being treated differently from another. Resellers are free to order stock whenever they want. Your blaming Duet3D doesn’t make any sense, are you stating that Duet3D should force resellers to buy product? That would certainly be an interesting business model.
Conversely, are resellers supposed to wait and hold their stock until all resellers have ordered? That would result in some markets having to wait longer for the newest technology, because another reseller did not order quickly. What happens if a reseller doesn’t want to carry a product? Then other resellers have ordered and paid for something they can’t sell?
If you are displeased that your desired reseller does not carry the product you want, ask them to order it. If they don’t order/carry things fast enough for your liking, look at another reseller.
In this instance EU/UK customers are being FORCED to wait longer for newer technology, Duet3D either wants to sell product or it does not, UK/EU customers ARE 100% FORCED to buy from "re-sellers" just take a look at the Duet3D website for that fact in their own words:
So now you're angry that because the Duet3D team falls into a high-risk category for COVID, you can't buy direct? The Duet3D team should expose themselves to personal medical risk so you can get a Toolboard 1LC faster?
We are still not undertaking direct sales due to the COVID-19 situation. In the mean time please purchase Duet3D products from our resellers, see https://www.duet3d.com/GenuineResellers for a full list.
Our retail sales staff fall into the UK Government’s at-risk category for severe Coronavirus infections. They are therefore continuing measures to minimize their possible exposure to the virus. We thank you for your understanding.
That means that if the reseller is not stocking or advertising products then EU/UK customers CANNOT purchase items, that is a FACT.
Sure, that is a fact, along with the fact that said reseller is free to stock any products they want.
But this then begs the question: if they are unable to ship orders placed via "direct sales" to customers how do they manage to ship to re-sellers ? in the Administrators own words "we are shipping them out as fast as we get them!"
Different shipping methods/companies. Bulk shipments (to resellers) are handled by a company that picks up the large shipments from Duet3D directly. The smaller shipments had to be delivered by Duet3D to the postal depot, which puts them at risk, standing in lines etc.
You cant have it Both Ways either you put in place a system where the components are available or you dont,
The system where components are available is already in place, has been for years. There's no reseller favoritism, all resellers are free to order as soon as products are available.
So YES EU/UK customers ARE being penalized through NO fault of their own, as Duet3D is 100% forcing customers to purchase via re-sellers, if you cannot see that then there is no point in discussing this further with you are you are sadly unable to see reason.
If all resellers had to wait until EU/UK resellers bought and listed product, EU/UK customers would have had to wait just as long as in the current system to buy direct. So it would have the EXACT SAME OUTCOME for UK/EU customers. I'm not sure how else to explain this.
Also it is very telling that telling the truth is frowned upon.
Being logical and reasonable isn't frowned upon. It looks like you just come to these forums to argue and criticize. If you are so disenchanted with Duet products, why do you care about how quickly you can purchase them locally?
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@jayjay said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@elmoret said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@jayjay said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
As for waiting for re-seller to deplete "old stock" how are customers going to feel after buying a v1.0 for a week later to find an updated version only became available after the reseller offloaded their old stock......
Do you also get this upset when you buy a coffeemaker and a new model with an extra feature comes out a week later?
I would kindly request that you do not start making personal attacks please
How is asking a question a personal attack?
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@elmoret said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@jayjay said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@elmoret said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@jayjay What in the world?
This is not a case of one country’s customers being treated differently from another. Resellers are free to order stock whenever they want. Your blaming Duet3D doesn’t make any sense, are you stating that Duet3D should force resellers to buy product? That would certainly be an interesting business model.
Conversely, are resellers supposed to wait and hold their stock until all resellers have ordered? That would result in some markets having to wait longer for the newest technology, because another reseller did not order quickly. What happens if a reseller doesn’t want to carry a product? Then other resellers have ordered and paid for something they can’t sell?
If you are displeased that your desired reseller does not carry the product you want, ask them to order it. If they don’t order/carry things fast enough for your liking, look at another reseller.
In this instance EU/UK customers are being FORCED to wait longer for newer technology, Duet3D either wants to sell product or it does not, UK/EU customers ARE 100% FORCED to buy from "re-sellers" just take a look at the Duet3D website for that fact in their own words:
So now you're angry that because the Duet3D team falls into a high-risk category for COVID, you can't buy direct? The Duet3D team should expose themselves to personal medical risk so you can get a Toolboard 1LC faster? Are you not hearing yourself?
We are still not undertaking direct sales due to the COVID-19 situation. In the mean time please purchase Duet3D products from our resellers, see https://www.duet3d.com/GenuineResellers for a full list.
Our retail sales staff fall into the UK Government’s at-risk category for severe Coronavirus infections. They are therefore continuing measures to minimize their possible exposure to the virus. We thank you for your understanding.
That means that if the reseller is not stocking or advertising products then EU/UK customers CANNOT purchase items, that is a FACT.
Sure, that is a fact, along with the fact that said reseller is free to stock any products they want.
But this then begs the question: if they are unable to ship orders placed via "direct sales" to customers how do they manage to ship to re-sellers ? in the Administrators own words "we are shipping them out as fast as we get them!"
Different shipping methods/companies. Bulk shipments (to resellers) are handled by a company that picks up the large shipments from Duet3D directly. The smaller shipments had to be delivered by Duet3D to the postal depot, which puts them at risk, standing in lines etc.
You cant have it Both Ways either you put in place a system where the components are available or you dont,
The system where components are available is already in place, has been for years. There's no reseller favoritism, all resellers are free to order as soon as products are available.
So YES EU/UK customers ARE being penalized through NO fault of their own, as Duet3D is 100% forcing customers to purchase via re-sellers, if you cannot see that then there is no point in discussing this further with you are you are sadly unable to see reason.
If all resellers had to wait until EU/UK resellers bought and listed product, EU/UK customers would have had to wait just as long as in the current system to buy direct. So it would have the EXACT SAME OUTCOME for UK/EU customers. I'm not sure how else to explain this.
Also it is very telling that telling the truth is frowned upon.
Being logical and reasonable isn't being frowned upon. You are being neither.
So let me get this straight just so we are clear.
FACTS are DUET3D are 100% forcing customers to purchase from re-sellers NO other option yes or no ?
in light of that fact do you think it is unreasonable to then expect at least ONE EU/Reseller to be advertising stock of the new item , again yes or no ?
you also said:
" Conversely, are resellers supposed to wait and hold their stock until all resellers have ordered? That would result in some markets having to wait longer for the newest technology, because another reseller did not order quickly. What happens if a reseller doesn’t want to carry a product? Then other resellers have ordered and paid for something they can’t sell?"
This is DOUBLE Standards because an administrator already stated the following:
the problem was that the moment we announced to the user base that we are working on a new version with more features, there was a risk that our resellers would be left with old stock that they can't sell. So we were trying to let stocks of the v1.0 tool board run out before we announced the V1.1. It's not fair on our resellers to leave them with old stock, and our margins are not big enough for us to scrap and write off a large number of older boards in the supply chain.
I guess we could have increased the price of the v1.1, but we didn't want to do that.
logic dictates that, that means that EU/UK sales are/were being artificially stifled to allow those EU/UK re-sellers seller to deplete stock, so by YOUR VERY OWN LOGIC EU/UK markets are 100% being expected to wait longer.
So by its very definition EU/UK customers are being 100% prevented from purchasing newer goods that means EU/UK customers are being penalized. And like it or not such practices are actually illegal in many countries.
I wonder how the EU commission's fair competition policy would view such actions ?
As for personal attacks, as soon as you mentioned anything with regards a persons feelings about any topic you transferred the discussion from being professional about the product/service to how a person feels that is when it became personal, therefore i respectfully request that you refrain from making ANY remarks of a personal nature.
if you cannot respect that or grasp that then that is not something I can explain to you further.
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@JayJay I will try and address the points you raised.
We supply our resellers in the order they put in their orders to us. In this case we have backorders from a number of resellers and are supplying them in turn. If EU resellers had a backorder in in advance of US resellers they would have got them first. There has been no delay on our part due to our perception of "old stock" being held by any reseller, we had backorders because resellers had run out of stock, or were about to run out of stock. In addition our manufacturer is producing, testing, and shipping this product to us in batches which means we do not receive the whole production run at one time. As we get them in, we fulfil the back orders.
That said we do recognise that when a new feature is added (or a whole new product) it would be better to delay announcing it slightly to give more time for as many of our resellers to receive stock as practicable.
Finally we are not selling directly through our website precisely to allow our small team to focus on shipping to resellers as efficiently as possible. Plans to grow the team were put on hold due to COVID. Once the UK vaccination program is sufficiently advanced we will revisit this.
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@t3p3tony said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@JayJay I will try and address the points you raised.
We supply our resellers in the order they put in their orders to us. In this case we have backorders from a number of resellers and are supplying them in turn. If EU resellers had a backorder in in advance of US resellers they would have got them first. There has been no delay on our part due to our perception of "old stock" being held by any reseller, we had backorders because resellers had run out of stock, or were about to run out of stock. In addition our manufacturer is producing, testing, and shipping this product to us in batches which means we do not receive the whole production run at one time. As we get them in, we fulfil the back orders.
That said we do recognise that when a new feature is added (or a whole new product) it would be better to delay announcing it slightly to give more time for as many of our resellers to receive stock as practicable.
Finally we are not selling directly through our website precisely to allow our small team to focus on shipping to resellers as efficiently as possible. Plans to grow the team were put on hold due to COVID. Once the UK vaccination program is sufficiently advanced we will revisit this.
It still Doesn't explain why as of the other day (I haven't checked again since) NOT ONE EU/UK re-seller was advertising the updated item.
if as you are as you previously said
I know we are shipping them out as fast as we get them!
Surely out of the list of 22 EU/UK official re-sellers at least ONE should have obtained stock and have the product available for sale if not then there is a systemic failure on the part of EU/UK re-sellers not providing an adequate service or something else is going on.
The logic of another administrators comment must also be analyzed.
the problem was that the moment we announced to the user base that we are working on a new version with more features, there was a risk that our resellers would be left with old stock that they can't sell. So we were trying to let stocks of the v1.0 tool board run out before we announced the V1.1. It's not fair on our resellers to leave them with old stock, and our margins are not big enough for us to scrap and write off a large number of older boards in the supply chain.
if you analyze and break down the comment, you can only but reach the following conclusion.
As the announcement of V1.1 was made, logically that means Duet3D felt that a suitable stock depletion level had been reached, therefore it would again be logical to assume that stock would be being provided to EU/UK re-sellers otherwise the announcement would not have been made.
And just because the
fanboyssorry fan base does not like the difficult questions being asked, they should still be asked on behalf of ALL EU/UK customers -
@jayjay Why would any reseller announce the new version if they still have the old one in stock? They want to sell those first of course...
You seem very upset about this, but rest assured, this is industry practice and nothing out of the ordinary...
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@diamondback said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@jayjay Why would any reseller announce the new version if they still have the old one in stock? They want to sell those first of course...
You seem very upset about this, but rest assured, this is industry practice and nothing out of the ordinary...
I would request you to READ the content of my post above yours as that will supply you with the answer to your question. if after that you still cannot work it out please reply again and i will try to break it down in to easier to understand bites for you.
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@jayjay Oh well, sorry, not going to participate in a passive aggressive discussion with you, I have better things to do
You seem to be purely here for the attention and not looking for a productive conversation with people that actually explain you the reasoning. -
@diamondback said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@jayjay Oh well, sorry, not going to participate in a passive aggressive discussion with you, I have better things to do
You seem to be purely here for the attention and not looking for a productive conversation with people that actually explain you the reasoning.Thank you for the reply, the content of which means you were not able to understand me so I will try to break it down for you in baby steps.
There are 22 official EU/UK re-sellers listed on the Duet3D website (are you with me so far ?)
So logic would dictate that at least ONE of those re-sellers would not be holding old Stock
agreed ?if so many re-sellers are still holding on to stock you need to ask the question as to why that is so ? is the item not selling, did the re-seller order too many, if the item is not selling then why is the product being updated ? it makes no economical sense to introduce an updated version of a product if it is not selling.
To back up that statement please look at the screenshot below.
I just took this a few minutes ago, which shows at least ONE official reseller showing ZERO Stock. So we have proven that at the very least one Offical re-seller is not holding off on announcing the new unit to sell old stock. So if at least one EU/UK re-seller that is not holding on to old stock they have no reason to NOT advertise the new unit, and we know at least ONE non EU/UK has the new version available for sale now, so if a non EU/UK reseller can have stock why out of 22 official EU/UK ones is it unreasonable to expect at least ONE of those EU/UK re-sellers to be able to be able to do the same ?
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@jayjay is the issue here not just that the EU resellers are just slower at listing things (and potentially placing orders!) than Filastruder?
This was certainly the case with the Duet Mini when released. I saw some people on here in the UK who got them shipped from the US and had arrived through customs and fitted to their printers before E3D had even listed their stock.
At the end of the day, surely this falls to the reseller to sort out (though maybe there are other companies Duet3d could sell through?)FWIW, the new toolboard does have marked changes (built in accelerometer, different connectors etc) so I could see it being listed as a separate item (potentially with a slightly higher RRP), but this is Duet3d's call.
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@engikeneer said in Announcement: Duet 3 Toolboard revision v1.1:
@jayjay is the issue here not just that the EU resellers are just slower at listing things (and potentially placing orders!) than Filastruder?
This was certainly the case with the Duet Mini when released. I saw some people on here in the UK who got them shipped from the US and had arrived through customs and fitted to their printers before E3D had even listed their stock.
At the end of the day, surely this falls to the reseller to sort out (though maybe there are other companies Duet3d could sell through?)FWIW, the new toolboard does have marked changes (built in accelerometer, different connectors etc) so I could see it being listed as a separate item (potentially with a slightly higher RRP), but this is Duet3d's call.
Thank you, this is the first common sense (non-fan boy) reply.
If that is so, it is a rather disappointing admission to have to make that the quality of service from 22 official EU/UK re-sellers are evidently so very bad is it not ?
And if that is so it leads on to the question:
Why does Duet3D not have at the very least ONE core external supplier who it trusts implicitly to be able supply at the very least a certain amount of Goods within the EU/UK Geo-location.
