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    Which Duet for a CNC?

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    • Nightowlundefined
      Nightowl
      last edited by Nightowl

      I'm patiently(!) awaiting delivery of my RatRig KillerBee 1075 CNC machine and, after some research, have come to the conclusion the Duet control system is probably the best for my needs - but which one? I originally asked this question of Ooznest, when I was looking at their WorkBee, but they seemed to think the Duet 2 was perfectly adequate.

      Essentially, I'm trying to decide between the Duet 2 Ethernet and the Duet 3 6HC, but I wonder if the 6HC is much more than I need. I was leaning towards this one as it's their latest board and appears to be eminently more upgradeable/configurable, but is this really necessary for a relatively standard CNC machine with an AMB milling motor that has a digital interface (Like this one here)?

      As I understand it, the Duet 2 requires a PWM to voltage 0-10V converter to control on/speed/off functions of the milling motor, but is this also the case for the Duet 3?

      Looking to future plans, the only advancements I might consider would be the addition of a laser and/or a 4th axis.

      Oops, I forgot to add I'm using Nema 23, High Torque, 1.8degree/step, 345oz-in stepper motors and my MacBook, not a Raspberry Pi.

      Thanks in advance 👍

      Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
      I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

      RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

      dc42undefined markzundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • dc42undefined
        dc42 administrators @Nightowl
        last edited by

        @nightowl999 there are a few considerations:

        • Duet 2 supports a maximum of 2.5A peak motor current, and needs to be well-cooled to handle that current. Duet 3 MB6HC supports a maximum of 6.3A peak.
        • Duet 2 has only 512kb of flash memory and RepRapFirmware 3.4 almost fills it entirely. This means that in future, Duet 2 will not be getting some of the firmware enhancements that Duet 3 gets. These enhancements are likely to include support for additional CNC-specific GCode commands.

        To control the spindle motor, if it has 0-10V analog control then you will need an isolated PWM to 0-10V converter for either board. There are two designs of converter widely available on eBay, Amazon etc. but only one of them provides isolation.

        Duet 3 has an output with a 5V-level PWM signal that is intended to drive a laser or PWM to 0-10V converter. With Duet 2 you can normally use a heater or fan output to drive the converter instead; however if you want to drive a laser that needs a 5V PWM signal from Duet 2 then you will probably need to add a level shifter.

        HTH David

        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

        Nightowlundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Nightowlundefined
          Nightowl @dc42
          last edited by

          @dc42

          Thank you, David, this helps enormously!

          It looks like the Duet 3 then and an isolated PWM to 0-10V converter!

          Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
          I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

          RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

          droftartsundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • droftartsundefined
            droftarts administrators @Nightowl
            last edited by

            @nightowl999 for CNC setup and notes on the 0-10V PWM board, see https://docs.duet3d.com/User_manual/Machine_configuration/Configuration_CNC

            Ian

            Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

            Nightowlundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • markzundefined
              markz @Nightowl
              last edited by

              @nightowl999 From someone who's done this twice...

              On my Taig milling machine I built the motor system from scratch and used 4A 250oz-in motors and run it with a 6HC. This limits me to ~32VDC to drive the motors which reduces available torque (they could handle 50VDC). I'm ok with that but run my mill at slower feeds/rapids than some people. I like the all-in-one solution of the 6HC and barely use the capabilities.

              On my 12sqft CNC router I did a conversion from the commercial controller (which would have cost $1,000 to upgrade to Win10) to a Duet2 Wifi. Here I used the extender card and drove the existing motor drivers from that. So it's a duet controller with 5 external drivers (2 Y and a rotary). Again it works awesomely but here I get the full torque of the 120VDC drivers. I do lose some pulse speed with the Duet2 (and ended up only 5-ustepping the screw-driven Z axis) but don't seem to miss it.

              So, external drivers->Duet2, internal drivers (<=6A, 32VDC) Duet3 6HC. My 2c.

              Also, I wouldn't use Ethernet nowadays. One more cable. Because the controller caches the job Wifi isn't nearly the issue as with dumb (mach3-type) controllers.

              Mark

              Nightowlundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Nightowlundefined
                Nightowl @markz
                last edited by

                @markz
                Ah, interesting comment about WiFi over Ethernet.

                My workshop (read "garden shed") is only where the machine is ru (MS Surface Pro) and not where the design takes place (in the house on my Mac), and the wired network is extended with PowerLine adapters - which also provides an extension to my WiFi, but I hadn't really considered WiFi because of the distance. What's important is both machines can connect to my NAS drive, which is where all the design and g-code files are stored.

                If this is no longer an issue I would consider WiFi, as long as I still had shared access to the NAS, but I'm not sure what benefit there would be for me.

                Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
                I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

                RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • Nightowlundefined
                  Nightowl @droftarts
                  last edited by

                  @droftarts

                  Thank you. I've not seen that specific page before, but it certainly helps explain things for me.

                  I'm assuming the Duet is by default a printer controller - I wasn't aware there was any difference in the control system - so I definitely need to use the M453 command!

                  Is this a once-only command, or would I need to do every time I power up the controller?

                  Thanks

                  Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
                  I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

                  RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

                  dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • dc42undefined
                    dc42 administrators @Nightowl
                    last edited by

                    @nightowl999 said in Which Duet for a CNC?:

                    Is this a once-only command, or would I need to do every time I power up the controller?

                    You would put that command in your config.g file on the SD card, then it will be executed automatically at power up.

                    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                    Nightowlundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Nightowlundefined
                      Nightowl @dc42
                      last edited by

                      @dc42 Thank you

                      Few things are more dangerous than taking the advice of someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.
                      I'm still on my learning curve, so take everything I say with caution!

                      RatRig 1075, Duet3 MB6HC, Sorotec SFM 1000 PV-ER milling motor, Hobbyist

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • chernogorskyundefined
                        chernogorsky
                        last edited by

                        Sorry for asking in an existing thread, but it looks like fitted (delete it otherwise)
                        @dc42, same question - whats the best Duet for CNC
                        Im starting a new project (printnc), and one of the option I'd like to check is d3.
                        My time estimate is in +- 2-3 months from now I'll have the mechanics, so by then I need to have some controller

                        Any chance that MB6XD (if I understand it correctly) be available, or its better for aiming to 6HC + 1HCL in case I want closed loop ? or even just 6HC + external drivers.

                        dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • dc42undefined
                          dc42 administrators @chernogorsky
                          last edited by

                          @chernogorsky if you want to use closed loop drivers then either use the 6XD and use external step-servo drivers, or you can use a Duet 3 Mini and EXP1HCL boards. Neither is completely ready yet: the 6XD won't be in production for about 2 months or more, and the EXP1HCL firmware is still in the beta test phase (but we hope to have the first stable release soon).

                          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                          chernogorskyundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • chernogorskyundefined
                            chernogorsky @dc42
                            last edited by

                            @dc42 thanks for the reply
                            May i signed for alpha/beta for 6xd
                            I have all the experience with d2/d3 and really wanna try it. Willing to test only recommended cl drivers 🙂
                            Dont want put 4x1hcl and waist all internal ports

                            dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • dc42undefined
                              dc42 administrators @chernogorsky
                              last edited by

                              @chernogorsky I've asked for you to be added to the queue for the 6XD.

                              Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                              Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                              http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                              zsc100undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • zsc100undefined
                                zsc100 @dc42
                                last edited by

                                @dc42 Is there any update to this. I also want to look at a retrofit CNC application and I need step/direction output. I really wish there were at least pads on the PCB for this even if no headers. I'm an EE so I assume I can scope/find them on the input side of the stepper drivers, but that's a PITA. Is there no one board solution as of now? If not I'll go ahead and grab the Duet3 Mini and just break out the Step/Dir myself.

                                jay_s_ukundefined T3P3Tonyundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • jay_s_ukundefined
                                  jay_s_uk @zsc100
                                  last edited by

                                  @zsc100 the Duet 3 6XD is already on sale.
                                  Other option would be an SKR3 or Fly-Super8Pro. They have standard stepstick sockets and support CAN-FD

                                  Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF. Assume I'm running whatever the latest beta/stable build is

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • T3P3Tonyundefined
                                    T3P3Tony administrators @zsc100
                                    last edited by

                                    @zsc100 I will make a forum announcement about availability through our resellers in the next few days. We are shipping out back orders this week.

                                    www.duet3d.com

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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