Extruder's stepper - 1.8deg or 0.9deg?
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Hi all,
I have both 1.8deg and 0.9deg steppers laying around. Which one should I use as an extruder motor? The first will give 50 full steps/mm and the second 100 full steps/mm. Also, how many microsteps should I use?
Configuration: Dual Drive extruder, V6 hotend, 60cm bowden tube, 1.75mm, filament, 0.4mm nozzle, 24V.
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for the extruder you want to be in the 300-400 range for steps for very good printing quality.
so at 16 microstepping with interpolation that gives you 800 on your 1.8 which should be more than enough.we have a discussion about print quality going here.
https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/9066/corexy-x-axis-vibration-issues/39
suggesting to use 0.9 degree stepper for x and y movement. -
Not quite enough information to give a good recommendation. Is the extruder geared? What does Dual drive extruder mean? Like a bondtech?
In general a 0.9 degree motor would be prefered for greater resolution. But without knowing the specs of the motors it's hard to say which is actually better.
You should aim to end up with as high a steps per mm value for the extruder as possible to ensure that very small extruder moves don't get dropped. So the 0.9 degree option may be best, especially if the extruder isn't geared. Same for microstepping value. x16 by default, and increase as needed to get the steps per mm value into the 800ish range. Keep in mind that as your steps per mm increases, the top speed for retractions actually decreases.
This can be helpful: https://wilriker.github.io/microstep-calculator/
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@phaedrux said in Extruder's stepper - 1.8deg or 0.9deg?:
What does Dual drive extruder mean? Like a bondtech?
Yes, extruder is like Bondtech
The steppers are
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Nema17-40mm-Stepper-motors/2062033_32830384921.html <- 1.8 deg
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00W98OYE4 <- 0.9 deg
I am retracting at 70mm/s and the 0.9deg steppers makes much more noticeable sound compared to the 1.8, which is a down side.
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I'd probably use the 0.9 with x16 microsteps to start. That would get you in the 800 steps per mm range with the 3:1 gearing of the extruder.
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@Phaedrux, the 0.9 degrees extruder motor https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00W98OYE4 is installs and working great. Thanks.
I may also try this smaller version https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-17-bipolar-09deg-11ncm-156ozin-12a-36v-42x42x21mm-4-wires-17hm08-1204s.html . Any downside to the smaller one? I don't expect to print faster than 100-150mm/s on X/Y and 50-75mm/s retraction works fine for me.
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@zapta pancake steppers are pretty popular with geared extruders because the hearing makes up for the loss of torque. It should work fine.
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Thanks @phaedrux. I will give it a try.
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Hi,
You also might like to check out the Zesty Nimble family. It combines the best of direct drive and Bowden "drive" with few of the shortcomings.
It's a geared unit and my steps/mm setting is 2700. For me a retraction setting of 1mm at 30mm/sec works well.
I recently equipped both of my printers with them. I'm as happy as clam at high tide with the results.
Frederick
Printers: A FT-5 with the 713 upgrade bits. A custom MarkForged style. A small Utilmaker style and a CoreXY from kits. Various hotends. Using Duets (2 and 3) running 3.4.1
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@fcwilt, I recently saw a video about it, IIRC it was a MRRF interview. Very interesting. I cam currently stabilizing a new CoreXy printer but once it will settle down Zesty will definitely be on the short list.
My Bowden is 60cm long so I presume I need the Nimble 75cm cable, and will also need some loose ID PTFE tube for the filament feed.
How is it attached to the X carriage? Some holding screws or just being attached to the top of the hotend (e.g. V6)?
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@zapta said in Extruder's stepper - 1.8deg or 0.9deg?:
How is it attached to the X carriage? Some holding screws or just being attached to the top of the hotend (e.g. V6)?
they are making all adapter available on thingiverse.
https://www.thingiverse.com/ZestyTech/collections/adaptors-for-the-nimble -
@veti, that's very useful, thanks. I do see mounting screws which is good. It's interesting that the use the sidewinder for the HEVO. I would think everything going up and tied together (extruder cable, electric wires and filament PTFE tube).
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@zapta said in Extruder's stepper - 1.8deg or 0.9deg?:
@veti, that's very useful, thanks. I do see mounting screws which is good. It's interesting that the use the sidewinder for the HEVO. I would think everything going up and tied together (extruder cable, electric wires and filament PTFE tube).
I recently fitted a Nimble feeding a E3D V6 to my FT-5. I designed and printed the mount.
I used a vertical Nimble and used the drive cable as a support for the wires going to the hotend.
I did not use any sort of tubing as a filament guide, I just feed directly off the spool. A tube might be a good idea.
After I got Nimble up and running I decided the mount would be a good place to add a pair of fans for part cooling.
As I type I am printing the parts involved in that.
Attached is a picture of the experiment to see how a part cooling fan would work before I undertook modifying the mount to accept the fans.
Printers: A FT-5 with the 713 upgrade bits. A custom MarkForged style. A small Utilmaker style and a CoreXY from kits. Various hotends. Using Duets (2 and 3) running 3.4.1
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@fcwilt said in Extruder's stepper - 1.8deg or 0.9deg?:
I recently fitted a Nimble feeding a E3D V6 to my FT-5. I designed and printed the mount.
in toms mrrf video they said they will design an adapter for every printer. you just have to contact them.
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@veti They even have an adapter for a Titan Aero! ROFL!
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@veti said in Extruder's stepper - 1.8deg or 0.9deg?:
@fcwilt said in Extruder's stepper - 1.8deg or 0.9deg?:
I recently fitted a Nimble feeding a E3D V6 to my FT-5. I designed and printed the mount.
in toms mrrf video they said they will design an adapter for every printer. you just have to contact them.
I do remember hearing that.
I'm fine with designing my own parts.
Adding the fans led to some conflicts with existing original parts of the printer. I had to work out a fix for those issues which led to designing other parts.
Great fun when it all comes together.
Frederick
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@fcwilt said in Extruder's stepper - 1.8deg or 0.9deg?:
I recently fitted a Nimble feeding a E3D V6 to my FT-5. I designed and printed the mount.
What kind of a stepper do you use for the nimble? With the 30:1 gear ration I presume that a small pancake 1.8deg stepper is more than enough.
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@zapta said in Extruder's stepper - 1.8deg or 0.9deg?:
@fcwilt said in Extruder's stepper - 1.8deg or 0.9deg?:
I recently fitted a Nimble feeding a E3D V6 to my FT-5. I designed and printed the mount.
What kind of a stepper do you use for the nimble? With the 30:1 gear ration I presume that a small pancake 1.8deg stepper is more than enough.
I would imagine. I just used what I had on hand - nothing special - a typical 1.8 stepper.
Frederick
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I tried installing a half length 0.9deg stepper but the one I got didn't have a flat side on the shaft, shaft was barely long enough and the depth of the 4 mounting screw was not as deep as a standard stepper. Will get to it another time. It looks nicer though on my printer than the full size stepper.
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+1 for the Nimble. Been using it for a while now and it's working great...
It's a little hard to see but that's because it's so small. It tucks right between my hotend and part cooling ducts,
