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Watercooled Smart Effector In Larger Effector || 4th Axis Design

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Smart effector for delta printers
smart effector mounting effector water cooling 4th axis delta additional axis
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  • undefined
    Nxt-1 @oliof
    last edited by 26 Aug 2019, 07:43

    @oliof said in Mounting a smart effector in larger effector - watercooled:

    @denke I believe you remember https://well-engineered.net/index.php/en/86-community-water-cooling

    I do have the water cooling block at home, but it is waiting for a later time when I finished off my current ones.

    I that block was available with a M12 threaded mount instead of a groove mount, I would throw my ideas in the bin right way most likely 😉 I sadly do not have access to metal shaping machines to make my own either.

    Duet3D and delta printer enthousiast. Buildlog
    Looking for Duet3D configuration support, check out Nxt-3D

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    • undefined
      Dougal1957
      last edited by 26 Aug 2019, 07:49

      Sorry to put a dampener on your work but I don't think it will work, With the feed tube/blocks where they are I don't think you will have anywhere near enough clearance for the arms so your print radius is going to be severely limited and should you go beyond that limit you are likely to get an arm disconnection. I hope I am wrong but I would attempt to mount it and see before you go much farther. Also you might like to Check out the Zesty Kryo

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 26 Aug 2019, 09:23 Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        Nxt-1 @Dougal1957
        last edited by 26 Aug 2019, 09:23

        @dougal1957 said in Mounting a smart effector in larger effector - watercooled:

        Sorry to put a dampener on your work but I don't think it will work, With the feed tube/blocks where they are I don't think you will have anywhere near enough clearance for the arms so your print radius is going to be severely limited and should you go beyond that limit you are likely to get an arm disconnection. I hope I am wrong but I would attempt to mount it and see before you go much farther. Also you might like to Check out the Zesty Kryo

        No worries about damping 🙂 , I have been thinking the same about clearance. In the current design, I have placed the ball joint connections at close to the edge of the smart effector pcb as I physically possible. If clearance issues arise, I can move them outwards or increase the spacing between the rods.

        On terms of the Zesty Kryo, holy crap. That seems just about what I was looking for. I have to interest into getting the rest of the Nimble ecosystem but I will definitely look at the Kryo. One issue, did Zesty discontinue the Kryo. I cannot find a source for it.

        Duet3D and delta printer enthousiast. Buildlog
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        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 28 Aug 2019, 16:50 Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          oliof
          last edited by 26 Aug 2019, 09:37

          Also, check out https://hackaday.io/project/158650-folds-and-hinges-technology-to-make-mechanisms/log/147838-ultra-light-extrusion-toward-the-graal for a very interesting and simple water cooling design.

          <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 26 Aug 2019, 10:11 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            Nxt-1 @oliof
            last edited by 26 Aug 2019, 10:11

            @oliof said in Mounting a smart effector in larger effector - watercooled:

            Also, check out https://hackaday.io/project/158650-folds-and-hinges-technology-to-make-mechanisms/log/147838-ultra-light-extrusion-toward-the-graal for a very interesting and simple water cooling design.

            I saw that design when they released it but I do not think it is direct compatible with the E3D ecosystem that I use. Futhermore, it does not seem to be a likely fit for a smart effector.

            Duet3D and delta printer enthousiast. Buildlog
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            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 26 Aug 2019, 11:09 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              oliof @Nxt-1
              last edited by 26 Aug 2019, 11:09

              @nxt-1 agreed on the extruder and it definitely is not a simple E3D drop-in. That said, the hotend/cooling part might fit. I heard mixed opinions on the ceramic heater with the thermistor in the nozzle though ...

              <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

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              • undefined
                Twigz @Nxt-1
                last edited by 26 Aug 2019, 15:14

                This post is deleted!
                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  Nxt-1 @Nxt-1
                  last edited by 28 Aug 2019, 16:50

                  @nxt-1 said in Mounting a smart effector in larger effector - watercooled:

                  @dougal1957 said in Mounting a smart effector in larger effector - watercooled:

                  Sorry to put a dampener on your work but I don't think it will work, With the feed tube/blocks where they are I don't think you will have anywhere near enough clearance for the arms so your print radius is going to be severely limited and should you go beyond that limit you are likely to get an arm disconnection. I hope I am wrong but I would attempt to mount it and see before you go much farther. Also you might like to Check out the Zesty Kryo

                  No worries about damping 🙂 , I have been thinking the same about clearance. In the current design, I have placed the ball joint connections at close to the edge of the smart effector pcb as I physically possible. If clearance issues arise, I can move them outwards or increase the spacing between the rods.

                  On terms of the Zesty Kryo, holy crap. That seems just about what I was looking for. I have to interest into getting the rest of the Nimble ecosystem but I will definitely look at the Kryo. One issue, did Zesty discontinue the Kryo. I cannot find a source for it.

                  Comming back to the Kryo, I just heard back from Zesty directly and it seems that some users reported leakages appearing after a while. The guys over at Zesty make the right call and pulled the Kryo from sales until they can release a re-engineered version.

                  Duet3D and delta printer enthousiast. Buildlog
                  Looking for Duet3D configuration support, check out Nxt-3D

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                  • undefined
                    Nxt-1
                    last edited by 19 Oct 2019, 09:25

                    I've been continuing the work on this project. I've had a few failed print due to clogging, I assume from the heatbreak overheating. The last couple of print are doing fine however. I measured some temps with a thermocouple and the water rises to 30-35°C and the copper waterblocks themselves to around 44°C.
                    2019-10-19 11.09.36.jpg 2019-10-19 11.09.43.jpg

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                    • undefined
                      Nxt-1
                      last edited by 19 Oct 2019, 09:37

                      There is also a thread concerning monitoring the water temps with a 10K thermistor here.
                      And a thread about getting the part fan to work here.

                      I have also decided to go full blow and mount some radiators on the 4th axis arm. Furthermore, I ordered an off-the-shelf water cooled heatsink from Germany. I plan to turn down the groovemount down to 12mm on a lathe and thread it to M12 myself. Not only is probably a better solution cooling wise but also way less tubes down at the effector. I feel the short tube in tight corners are in a way constraining the Z-probe action of a smart effector.

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                      • undefined
                        Nxt-1
                        last edited by 30 Oct 2019, 14:36

                        As described in a separate thread I now use a different way of mounting (the new) water cooled heatsink. This makes tubing a lot neater and should give better performance. I will keep this thread updated with the results once I find the time to properly do some testing.

                        Duet3D and delta printer enthousiast. Buildlog
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                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Nov 2019, 10:07 Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          Nxt-1 @Nxt-1
                          last edited by 18 Nov 2019, 10:07

                          @Nxt-1 Here is a quick status update. I am currently figuring out how I am going to implement the counterweight for the 2-2.5kg that the 4th axis weighs. The current plan is to cut a stack of disk out of lead sheet, so I can stack more weights as needed.
                          2019-11-17 10.40.09.jpg 2019-11-17 10.40.01.jpg

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                          • fmaundefined
                            fma
                            last edited by 18 Nov 2019, 11:31

                            I'm using a FNU (http://reprapuniverse.com/catalog/store.php?cPath=44_155_157), and made a water-cooled block with a simple piece of aluminium (25x25x10), and a few holes:

                            FNU_watercooled.png

                            It works fine. It does not require much water flow; my previous pump died, and I'm about to buy a peristaltic one.

                            I also made a version for a E3D-v6, for friends:

                            E3D-v6_watercooled.png

                            but for now, nobody tried it... It requires a new thermal heat-break, which can be found on ebay (M6 thread on full-length)

                            Frédéric

                            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Nov 2019, 11:44 Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              Nxt-1 @fma
                              last edited by 18 Nov 2019, 11:44

                              @fma I never heard of the FNU style nozzle/hotends, looks interesting. As for your waterblock, looks nice, clean and effective. I assume there are four fittings to avoid needing a channel machined in there and simplify the manufacturing process?

                              Duet3D and delta printer enthousiast. Buildlog
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                              • fmaundefined
                                fma
                                last edited by 18 Nov 2019, 12:01

                                @Nxt-1 said in Mounting a smart effector in larger effector - watercooled:

                                @fma I never heard of the FNU style nozzle/hotends, looks interesting.

                                Note that I broke one while doing 5 axis printing (forgot to lift up Z at the end of the print, and it collided with the part ☹). On the second one, I cut the tip of the nozzle, and only let the threaded part. This way, I can use any nozzle I want (like the Zatsit one, I'm still waiting for).

                                As for your waterblock, looks nice, clean and effective. I assume there are four fittings to avoid needing a channel machined in there and simplify the manufacturing process?

                                Exactly: just through all holes! I put a shunt tube on one side, so I only need 2 tubes for the water supply.

                                Frédéric

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                                • fmaundefined
                                  fma
                                  last edited by 18 Nov 2019, 12:02

                                  FNU are availabe here:

                                  http://reprapuniverse.com/catalog/store.php?cPath=44_155_157

                                  Frédéric

                                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Nov 2019, 21:37 Reply Quote 0
                                  • undefined
                                    tech-raton @fma
                                    last edited by tech-raton 18 Nov 2019, 21:37

                                    @fma same idea here. A smaller block is easier...
                                    Delta
                                    alt text

                                    Core xy
                                    alt text

                                    For the delta, 2 holes drilled to M5. A M7 hole for the heatbreak.

                                    For the core xy, 3 M5 holes and a M7 for the heatbreak.

                                    I put a thermistor on the heatsink. The temperature rises to 29 degrees max in a heated enclosure at 40.

                                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Nov 2019, 22:16 Reply Quote 0
                                    • undefined
                                      Nxt-1 @tech-raton
                                      last edited by 18 Nov 2019, 22:16

                                      @tech-raton Looks good! How confident are you using those push fittings in a moving setup? I have seen their internal teeth do a number on the ptfe filament tubes after a while. Never to the point of actually cutting it, but still.

                                      Duet3D and delta printer enthousiast. Buildlog
                                      Looking for Duet3D configuration support, check out Nxt-3D

                                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 18 Nov 2019, 22:20 Reply Quote 0
                                      • undefined
                                        tech-raton @Nxt-1
                                        last edited by tech-raton 18 Nov 2019, 22:20

                                        @Nxt-1 they come from my company. They are used in robotic application. They are good enough for me, for now...

                                        The bowden tube inside another tube (in the delta) will break before the pushfit.

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                                        • fmaundefined
                                          fma
                                          last edited by 19 Nov 2019, 08:05

                                          I use Festo pushfits: no leak so far (my hotend is now working for more than a year).

                                          Frédéric

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