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Terrible print

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  • undefined
    apex2011
    last edited by 8 Mar 2020, 20:19

    So, as many mentioned before it is definitely an extruder issue.

    Here's today's progress
    046144ab-4f45-4f5d-8dce-3675fb9bfe2d-image.png

    Hopefully soon I will have a usable printer again lol

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 8 Mar 2020, 22:09 Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      droftarts administrators @apex2011
      last edited by droftarts 3 Aug 2020, 22:27 8 Mar 2020, 22:09

      @apex2011 I’m pretty sure it’s your Slicer settings. Here’s the first bit from the Gcode you posted:

      G90
      M82
      M106 S0
      M140 S60
      M190 S60
      M104 S230 T0
      M109 S230 T0
      G28 ; home all axes
      G1 X5 Y10 Z0.2 F3000 ; get ready to prime
      G92 E0 ; reset extrusion distance
      G1 X160 E15 F600 ; prime nozzle
      G1 X180 F5000 ; quick wipe
      ; process Process1
      ; layer 1, Z = 0.240
      T0
      G92 E0.0000
      G1 E-4.0000 F2400
      ; feature skirt
      ; tool H0.240 W0.600
      G1 Z0.240 F1000
      G1 X22.029 Y43.415 F4800
      G1 E0.0000 F2400
      G92 E0.0000
      G1 X46.089 Y43.415 E1.2963 F400
      G1 X48.959 Y46.285 E1.5151
      G1 X48.959 Y70.344 E2.8114
      G1 X46.089 Y73.215 E3.0301
      G1 X22.029 Y73.215 E4.3265
      G1 X19.159 Y70.344 E4.5452
      G1 X19.159 Y46.285 E5.8416
      G1 X22.029 Y43.415 E6.0603
      G92 E0.0000
      G1 E-4.0000 F2400
      G1 X22.278 Y44.015 F4800
      G1 E0.0000 F2400
      G92 E0.0000
      G1 X45.840 Y44.015 E1.2696 F400
      G1 X48.359 Y46.534 E1.4615
      G1 X48.359 Y70.096 E2.7311
      G1 X45.840 Y72.615 E2.9230
      G1 X22.278 Y72.615 E4.1926
      G1 X19.759 Y70.096 E4.3845
      G1 X19.759 Y46.534 E5.6541
      G1 X22.278 Y44.015 E5.8460
      G92 E0.0000
      G1 E-4.0000 F2400
      ; feature inner perimeter
      G1 X24.959 Y49.215 F4800
      G1 E0.0000 F2400
      G92 E0.0000
      G1 X43.159 Y49.215 E0.9806 F300
      G1 X43.159 Y67.415 E1.9613
      G1 X24.959 Y67.415 E2.9419
      G1 X24.959 Y49.215 E3.9226
      ; feature outer perimeter
      G1 X24.359 Y48.615 F4800
      G92 E0.0000
      G1 X43.759 Y48.615 E1.0453 F200
      G1 X43.759 Y68.015 E2.0906
      G1 X24.359 Y68.015 E3.1359
      G1 X24.359 Y48.615 E4.1812
      ; feature solid layer
      G1 X42.440 Y49.725 F4800
      G92 E0.0000

      First, you’re using absolute extrusion M82, not relative M83. Then, it seems every retraction is 4mm, but then no unretract of the 4mm, so it’s effectively not extruding for a while. There is a zero E move after each retraction then travel move, which looks like it should be the unretract, but it’s not 4mm. I don’t use S3D, but I’m sure someone can guide you to the settings to correct this

      Ian

      Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 8 Mar 2020, 22:28 Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        deckingman @droftarts
        last edited by 8 Mar 2020, 22:28

        @droftarts Those are indeed absolute extrusion moves but they are preceded by an M82 which should override the M83 that that OP may have in his confg.g should it not? But you are right about the retractions which appear not to have any associated un-retrcat moves. But the G1E-4s are followed by G1 E0.00 so it rather looks like the un-retract move is being inserted but it's been set to zero.

        Ian
        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
        https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 8 Mar 2020, 22:59 Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          droftarts administrators @deckingman
          last edited by droftarts 3 Aug 2020, 23:16 8 Mar 2020, 22:59

          @deckingman Ah! I’m wrong. The G1 E0 is the unretract move, as it’s absolute! There’s no E position reset between them.

          Yes all the moves are absolute, so M82 is right for this file, but in general relative extrusion works better.

          Back to the drawing board...

          Maybe disassemble the extruder and check the teeth of the hobbed insert aren’t full of plastic?

          Ian

          Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 9 Mar 2020, 10:39 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            deckingman @droftarts
            last edited by 9 Mar 2020, 10:39

            @droftarts Of course! G1 E0 absolute is an un-retrcat. I agree that relative extrusion is best - after all the firmware must convert an absolute extrusion value into one that is relative (to the last move) in order to extrude nn mm of filament for a particular move.

            Ref the OPs' problem - I still think he's got a bad crimp on the extruder wiring if it works OK statically extruding into air.

            Ian
            https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
            https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              dc42 administrators
              last edited by dc42 3 Sept 2020, 11:03 9 Mar 2020, 11:02

              Some suggestions:

              • When it is printing the first layer, does it appear to be extruding smoothly?
              • When it is printing, can you see the extruder gear moving smoothly while it is printing a line; or does the motor jerk back sometimes (other than when doing retraction)?
              • When it retracts and reprimes, does it look like the extruder is moving back and then forwards by equal amounts?
              • Your M201 and M203 E values look rather high. I suspect they may ghe OK for an ungeared extruder, but you could try using half those existing values, in case the problem is that it can't retract or re-prime fast enough.
              • I am not familiar with the thermistor characteristics of that machine, but could it be that the M305 P1 parameters are incorrect so that the temperature is lower than reported? What happens if you increase the extruder temperature by 5C or 10C?

              Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
              Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
              http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                apex2011
                last edited by 14 Mar 2020, 20:03

                it looks like it is feeding and retracting properly. here is a video https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tmyHTlHK1n9yKcz9mY-qDMLeeh0X33k5

                @dc42 I have tried adjusting m201 and m203 E values, so far no change. I have tried printing at various temps from 205 - 230C

                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Mar 2020, 20:15 Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  droftarts administrators @apex2011
                  last edited by droftarts 14 Mar 2020, 20:15

                  @apex2011 can you do a video that shows the actual print? Off hand I’d say that that extruder is moving too slowly, but hard to tell because I can’t see the extrusion. Are you sure you haven’t set filament diameter to 3mm, rather than 1.75mm, in your slicer?

                  I assume you had the printer working correctly with the original board, before fitting the Duet?

                  Ian

                  Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Mar 2020, 12:30 Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    apex2011 @droftarts
                    last edited by 15 Mar 2020, 12:30

                    @droftarts I will do a video of the print this morning. I am also trying another slicer. I did verify that the filament is set to 1.75 in both Simplify 3D and now Cura.

                    Yes, I had the printer working before switching to Duet.

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Mar 2020, 12:43 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      droftarts administrators @apex2011
                      last edited by 15 Mar 2020, 12:43

                      @apex2011 have you got the config from the old electronics you can share? Have you changed the extruder motor? I think the assumption has been it’s a 1.8 degree motor, but perhaps it’s a 0.9. Has it got a label on the extruder stepper motor? What does it say?

                      Did you retune the extrusion distance? See https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Guide/Ender+3+Pro+and+Duet+Maestro+Guide+Part+4:+Calibration/40#s165

                      Ian

                      Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Mar 2020, 14:10 Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        apex2011 @droftarts
                        last edited by 15 Mar 2020, 14:10

                        @droftarts I thought I saved the config but I can't find it now that I'm looking for it. The extruder is stock for ender 3, 1.8 deg. I have done the celebration several times, it feeds 100mm of filament like it's supposed to. Although, now that I am thinking about it there have been a few changes made, it's worth checking again.

                        I am sure I'm probably missing something really simple. Earlier this week I went right back to step 1 and walked through the entire setup.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          apex2011
                          last edited by 15 Mar 2020, 16:27

                          So, I think I was right that it was something simple....I moved the filament and it's printing FAR better. Still not perfect but much better. I'll post a picture when it finishes but I think 1/2 my issue was filament tension that I didn't notice....🤦

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            apex2011
                            last edited by 15 Mar 2020, 17:08

                            it's definitely not perfect but, it printed!

                            Thank you everyone! I think it's a matter of dialing things in now.

                            a05db08c-a805-4a69-838f-89a52a23a0a5-image.png

                            b4d5948e-1d9f-4dda-93b8-3d937706ba83-image.png

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              Phaedrux Moderator @Phaedrux
                              last edited by 15 Mar 2020, 17:12

                              @Phaedrux said in Terrible print:

                              Tangled filament path?

                              🤗

                              Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Mar 2020, 17:16 Reply Quote 0
                              • undefined
                                apex2011 @Phaedrux
                                last edited by 15 Mar 2020, 17:16

                                @Phaedrux There didn't look to be but there must have been. I think I'm going to look into a different filament holder.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • undefined
                                  Phaedrux Moderator
                                  last edited by 15 Mar 2020, 17:41

                                  I prefer a filament holder that uses a bearing hub on the center of the spool so that it can rotate completely freely. I hate the ones that just hang it on a peg and force the extruder to yank on it.

                                  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2334107

                                  There is a mod for the Ender than moves the stock filament holder to the side closer to the extruder and more in line with it. I think that helps a bit.

                                  https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=ender+3+side+spool&dwh=835e6e667e47eca

                                  For my ender I just use one of the holder that uses bearings to set the spool on. It's less stable, but it does rotate the spool more easily.

                                  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2165694

                                  Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Mar 2020, 18:04 Reply Quote 0
                                  • undefined
                                    apex2011 @Phaedrux
                                    last edited by 15 Mar 2020, 18:04

                                    @Phaedrux Thank you! One of these will be my next print

                                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 15 Mar 2020, 21:23 Reply Quote 0
                                    • undefined
                                      droftarts administrators @apex2011
                                      last edited by 15 Mar 2020, 21:23

                                      @apex2011 was the extruder skipping steps, or grinding away the filament? The first might have been overcome by increasing the motor current. If the second, better take the extruder apart and clean the teeth of the filament driver/hobbed insert.

                                      Ian

                                      Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 21 Mar 2020, 12:17 Reply Quote 0
                                      • undefined
                                        apex2011 @droftarts
                                        last edited by 21 Mar 2020, 12:17

                                        @droftarts it didn’t look to be skipping. I took the gear out and cleaned it up as a preventative measure. There was some plastic “dust” in the gears, it all cleaned out with a quick blast of air.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • undefined
                                          apex2011
                                          last edited by 22 Mar 2020, 14:11

                                          Well, I thought I was onto good things. I tried to get a video but ti didn't work out very well. I was watching the print, it's almost like it forgets where z home is and tries to extrude too high part way through

                                          4a31c3f8-d3b9-440e-968b-d0aeb3dc3adc-image.png

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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