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    Enclosed printer water cooled motors

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    • deckingmanundefined
      deckingman
      last edited by deckingman

      There is a company that makes stepper motors capable of withstanding higher temperatures and which should work inside a heated enclosure without needing to be actively cooled. It was mentioned in the VRRF hosted by Slice Engineering but I can't remember any other details. Might be worth investigating.......

      Edit. But one thing I do know is that if you make or buy aluminium motor mounts and bolt them to the frame, the entire mount and frame become a giant heat sink which helps tremendously in keeping motors cool. I used to have both heat sinks and fans on all my motors when they were fitted to plastic mounts, but after fitting the aluminium mounts, I removed those and the motors still run cooler. I run Nema 23s at 2.8Amps and they are barely warm to the touch. I'd estimate no more than 10 degC above ambient.

      Ian
      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
      https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

      A Former User? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • A Former User?
        A Former User @deckingman
        last edited by A Former User

        My latest core-XY is designed with all its motors outside the insulated chamber, away from the heat.

        With only x2 small openings on X/Y for the belt to come out and back in again,
        and the three lead screws coming up through the base of the chamber, chamber at chamber temp and motors at as near as dammit ambient.

        deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • deckingmanundefined
          deckingman @A Former User
          last edited by

          @CaLviNx said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:

          My latest core-XY is designed with all its motors outside the insulated chamber, away from the heat.

          With only x2 small openings on X/Y for the belt to come out and back in again,
          and the three lead screws coming up through the base of the chamber, chamber at chamber temp and motors at as near as dammit ambient.

          Good idea. I'm thinking of doing exactly the same with a printer I'm planning. But I'm also toying with the idea of building a conveyor type, "infinite Y" build platform. I don't think anyone has done that inside a heated chamber - could be my next challenge........

          Ian
          https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
          https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

          A Former User? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • A Former User?
            A Former User @deckingman
            last edited by

            @deckingman said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:

            Good idea. I'm thinking of doing exactly the same with a printer I'm planning. But I'm also toying with the idea of building a conveyor type, "infinite Y" build platform. I don't think anyone has done that inside a heated chamber - could be my next challenge........

            I know not everyone uses Facbook, but I just saw a guy post on there who had built a belt Y axis printer from a re-purposed running machine.

            For one in a heated chamber I think the main challenge would be to safely get the print to transition from the chamber to the atmosphere and still keep the heat in the chamber.

            deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • Vetiundefined
              Veti
              last edited by Veti

              the voron ldo motors are rated to 180C. (130 chamber)

              https://www.filastruder.com/products/ldo-stepper-motors-all-types

              deckingmanundefined aprzundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • deckingmanundefined
                deckingman @Veti
                last edited by

                @Veti said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:

                the voron ldo motors are rated to 180C. (130 chamber)

                https://www.filastruder.com/products/ldo-stepper-motors-all-types

                LDO - that was the make I was trying to think of. Are you sure about the spec? I could be wrong but I thought the winding temp was 130 deg C meaning a chamber temp of 80 deg C.

                Ian
                https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                Vetiundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • Vetiundefined
                  Veti @deckingman
                  last edited by

                  @deckingman said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:

                  I could be wrong but I thought the winding temp was 130 deg C

                  check the link. there are 4 high temperature motors with a winding temp of 180C

                  deckingmanundefined roiki11undefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • deckingmanundefined
                    deckingman @A Former User
                    last edited by

                    @CaLviNx said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:

                    I know not everyone uses Facbook,..............

                    That's me - I don't "do" any social media, including Facbook or even Facebook 🙂 .

                    Ian
                    https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                    https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                    A Former User? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • deckingmanundefined
                      deckingman @Veti
                      last edited by

                      @Veti said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:

                      @deckingman said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:

                      I could be wrong but I thought the winding temp was 130 deg C

                      check the link. there are 4 high temperature motors with a winding temp of 180C

                      OK cool - I stand corrected.

                      Ian
                      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                      https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • roiki11undefined
                        roiki11 @Veti
                        last edited by

                        @Veti
                        That's the insulation class temperature. Without knowing the magnetic materials inside the motor it's hard to tell what's the curie point where the motors completely demagnetize. Most magnets also start losing power above 80C so it's best to keep their temperarures as low as possible.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • mrehorstdmdundefined
                          mrehorstdmd
                          last edited by mrehorstdmd

                          What specific kind of failure does applying a heatsink or water jacket prevent?

                          Does a heatsink or water jacket cool the rotor where the magnets are located and separated from the stators by an air gap?

                          https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

                          roiki11undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • roiki11undefined
                            roiki11 @mrehorstdmd
                            last edited by

                            @mrehorstdmd

                            They prevent the loss of magnetism that happens in ferromagnets when temperature rises above their max working temperature point, until it reaches its curie temperature and completely demagnetizes.

                            Most motor magnets have the working temperature limit somewhere in the 80-160 range. Its never really stated properly and I wouldn't trust Chinese motors to use the proper materials.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • A Former User?
                              A Former User @deckingman
                              last edited by

                              @deckingman said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:

                              That's me - I don't "do" any social media, including Facbook or even Facebook 🙂 .

                              The spelling was intentional....

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • aprzundefined
                                aprz @Veti
                                last edited by

                                @Veti I've looked at the dyze cooling blocks but they only cover a small surface area of the motor. I saw this https://www.researchgate.net/figure/a-Stepper-motor-cooling-shroud-installed-on-a-NEMA-17-stepper-motor-b-Computational_fig7_311666362 and i thought instead of running air through that heat shroud, run water and cool it further with a peltier. I think it looks promising as a better method of keeping the motors evenly cool.

                                roiki11undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • aprzundefined
                                  aprz @Rushmere3D
                                  last edited by

                                  @Rushmere3D I've seen that video of his when i was searching for watercooling. His method of cooling is similar to dyze he really did a great job.

                                  jens55undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • roiki11undefined
                                    roiki11 @aprz
                                    last edited by

                                    @1997alex said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:

                                    @Veti I've looked at the dyze cooling blocks but they only cover a small surface area of the motor.

                                    Cincinnati uses them in their SAAM HT and they seem to work fine.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • aprzundefined
                                      aprz @Veti
                                      last edited by

                                      @Veti I ended getting 0.9 degree moons stepper motors and i'm hoping they can withstand the heat. A member on prusa forum did multiple test with moons motors and LDO motors and the moons out performed the LDO motors.

                                      https://forum.prusaprinters.org/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-user-mods-octoprint-enclosures-nozzles-.../stepper-motor-upgrades-to-eliminate-vfa-s-vertical-fine-artifacts/

                                      Vetiundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • jens55undefined
                                        jens55 @aprz
                                        last edited by

                                        @1997alex said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:

                                        @Rushmere3D I've seen that video of his when i was searching for watercooling. His method of cooling is similar to dyze he really did a great job.

                                        I think his advise is dangerous and irresponsible but maybe that's just me .......

                                        aprzundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • aprzundefined
                                          aprz @jens55
                                          last edited by

                                          @jens55 hahaha, i suppose.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Vetiundefined
                                            Veti @aprz
                                            last edited by

                                            @1997alex said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:

                                            I ended getting 0.9 degree moons stepper motors and i'm hoping they can withstand the heat. A member on prusa forum did multiple test with moons motors and LDO motors and the moons out performed the LDO motors.

                                            yes i have read that article. heated chamber was not one criteria there though 🙂

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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