Issues with my Duet Maestro or bad config?

[jbirley]

First off thanks all for any help and input so far, even if I'm not getting anywhere i appreciate people giving up their time to help. Unfortunately that is just where I'm getting, no where.

@Phaedrux The filament is fine it can easily unspool straight into the extruder, I have tried multiple seam alignments from aligned to random, along with multiple slicers (cura and prusa). The bed on the sapphire plus is supported on two edges so is much more rigid than a lot of Chinese coreXY machines and the bed level screws are down tight enough it does not really move around.

@lodger Yes it is the BMG clone that is shipped with it however I have also tried a titan extruder I had kicking about with no change.

As stated at the beginning this has been happening on two machines for me now, with the exact same issue, and both machines had been working fine before the duet. I "upgraded" the first with the duet because of the questionable saftey of the first machines electronics, and the second because I already had the duet so why would i not? However the fact they have both worked fine without it rules out it being a mechanical issue, there is no way it is z wobble, or a bad extruder, snagging filament etc because they have all been proven to work fine.

over the last few days i have tried, in no particular order, multiple filaments, multiple extruders, extruder tensions, changing jerk settings both higher and lower, changing acceleration settings both higher and lower, different temperature ranges, retraction settings, pressure advance settings, I have moved all of the motors around onto different drivers, checked belt tensions really anything that could produce banding on the Z axis like I'm getting that I could think of. It is not layer shifting as the bands appear the whole way around the prints rather than sticking out one side and in the other.

I have tried every suggestion everyone has made on the forums, one at a time and done a test print in between nothing has made any real improvements.

the above imagine is of two cubes printed back to back. The only difference between them is the worse one on the left was sliced at .1mm layer height, while the other at was .2 all other settings stayed the same.

The only thing i can see being wrong at this point is there is something wrong with my board. I just wish i had a second one kicking about i could swap to and stick the SD card in because that would prove it one way or the other. At this point I'm getting close to just tearing the duet back out and converting it back over to the makerbase board that it came with.

[dc42]

I suggest you examine your test cubes carefully. Is the problem that a layer is shifted slightly from the previous one, so that it is indented from the previous layer at one side but overhangs the previous layer on the opposite side? If so then the problem is poor XY repeatability. Or is the problem that a layer will overhang the previous layer all the way round, or be indented from the previous layer all the way round? If so then the problem may be inconsistent extrusion, or unequal size Z steps (or missing Z steps if the print is not as high as it should be), or inconsistent temperature.

[jbirley]

@dc42 Its not layer shifting, the bands are too large all the way around. Im pretty certain its over extrusion i just dont understand why. I have calibrated the esteps and i am having the issue with multiple extruders. The really bad cube above is about .5mm too large in both x and y but correct in z. however the one sliced at .2mm is correct in the x and y but about .2mm too small in the Z. what i don't understand is if it was inconsistent temperature or extrusion why is it so drastically different at different layer heights? I just cant wrap my head around what is wrong. The closest i have come to a good surface on the x and y face was when i accidentally set the filament diameter to 2.85 rather than 1.75 so horrendously under extruded, the walls came out nice and smooth but very very weak and the top and bottom along with the infil was terrible as you would expect. see pictures below.

[dc42]

What extruder are you using, and what steps/mm setting are you using for it?

[jbirley]

@dc42 bondtech BMG clone that came with the printer and 430 steps/mm is what it came out to when I calibrated it by extruding 100mm of filament. I have tried lowering down to around 400.

[JamesM]

Did you set your slicer for relative extrusion? I believe it's common for marlin based printers to use absolute extrusion but for reprap firmware you want to use relative extrusion. If you're set to absolute extrusion in the slicer then I suspect that could cause the irregularities in with your extrusion.

I see your configs show relative extrusion so that's why I ask.

[DIY-O-Sphere]

@jbirley said in Issues with my Duet Maestro or bad config?:

bondtech BMG clone

Please check the filament channel for free movement. There were problems with this on the old models. I had to drill out my output channel to 2.2 mm because it was not aligned and there was a lot of friction. The new version has been improved. This has an insert in the housing.

[dc42]

@jbirley said in Issues with my Duet Maestro or bad config?:

@dc42 Its not layer shifting, the bands are too large all the way around. Im pretty certain its over extrusion i just dont understand why. I have calibrated the esteps and i am having the issue with multiple extruders. The really bad cube above is about .5mm too large in both x and y but correct in z. however the one sliced at .2mm is correct in the x and y but about .2mm too small in the Z. what i don't understand is if it was inconsistent temperature or extrusion why is it so drastically different at different layer heights? I just cant wrap my head around what is wrong. The closest i have come to a good surface on the x and y face was when i accidentally set the filament diameter to 2.85 rather than 1.75 so horrendously under extruded, the walls came out nice and smooth but very very weak and the top and bottom along with the infil was terrible as you would expect. see pictures below.

Unless it is an issue with the extruder (see the reply that precedes this one) then I think it is most likely caused by inaccurate amounts of Z movement. That would explain why the print with 0.1mm layer height is so much worse than with 0.2mm layer height.

What Z mechanism does your printer use? How many Z motors does it have, what is the motor type number, and how are they connected to the Duet?

[lodger]

I have just looked your config.g compared to mine. "same printer".

Your running Z400.00 steps and mine is 1600. I have also checked my old marlin config which also is 1600.

Check you Z microsteps . when you tell the bed to move 10mm does it move down 10mm

Just a idea !

Here is my config.g if it helps

config.g

[jbirley]

@lodger Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think that can be it, I will double check however if it was out by a factor of four there is no way a model would come out. As it stands the 20mm cubes are coming out at 20mm, if it was moving 1/4 of what it should it would have just been a 5mm tall squashed mess

I will check the other suggestions and get back to you.

[lodger]

@jbirley I have just noticed you have two drives mapped to Z. My Sapphire Pro only has One lead screw. That may explain why we have so differant steps.

[jbirley]

@JamesM Yes, I have tried both cura and prusa slicers just in case and both were set to relative extrusion and reprap firmware.

@DIY-O-Sphere I did have the extruder in parts to check it over and all seems fine but i will double check to see if the input and output holes are aligned once the current test print is done.

@dc42 the Z mechanism is two leadscrews one on both the left and right edge of the bed, with linear rails. pretty sure they are 2mm pitch. I have the motors running off different drivers each with their own end stop to level the bed left to right, then a bl touch probes the centre to get the z height. They are 1.8 degree 1.7a motors 17HS4401S. As @lodger stated above though this should mean at 1/16 steps (interpolated) with a 2mm pitch they should be 1600 steps/mm right? but I have tried them at that and when i tell the bed to move down 50mm it shoots 200mm down to the bottom of the printer. set at 400 steps/mm it moves the correct amount.

[DIY-O-Sphere]

@jbirley said in Issues with my Duet Maestro or bad config?:

I did have the extruder in parts to check

You can check this very easily.
When the motor is removed, simply push a piece of filament through the extruder (lever closed). You can feel whether it can be pushed through easily.

[dc42]

@jbirley said in Issues with my Duet Maestro or bad config?:

the Z mechanism is two leadscrews one on both the left and right edge of the bed, with linear rails. pretty sure they are 2mm pitch. I have the motors running off different drivers each with their own end stop to level the bed left to right, then a bl touch probes the centre to get the z height. They are 1.8 degree 1.7a motors 17HS4401S. As @lodger stated above though this should mean at 1/16 steps (interpolated) with a 2mm pitch they should be 1600 steps/mm right? but I have tried them at that and when i tell the bed to move down 50mm it shoots 200mm down to the bottom of the printer. set at 400 steps/mm it moves the correct amount.

Are the leadscrews 2x8, i.e. 2mm pitch but 8mm lead?

[jbirley]

@dc42

I think so,

pretty sure they are 2mm pitch, 4 start, 8mm lead. so having double checked that math that means that 400 is correct right?

[droftarts]

@jbirley It does rather look like a Z-banding issue. Can you also post your config.g as it currently stands?

Also, I found what I think is the Marlin configuration for the Sapphire Plus here: https://github.com/le3tspeak/Marlin-2.0.X-MKS-Robin-Nano

Steps per mm: https://github.com/le3tspeak/Marlin-2.0.X-MKS-Robin-Nano/blob/2ffa19960715aa0fd97bf5f8973691eb2fc0012c/Marlin/Configuration.h#L1145
This shows X80, Y80, Z400, E415 which is close enough to your current config (and shows that the Sapphire Pro is Z1600).

Motor settings from here onward: https://github.com/le3tspeak/Marlin-2.0.X-MKS-Robin-Nano/blob/2ffa19960715aa0fd97bf5f8973691eb2fc0012c/Marlin/Configuration.h#L1198

Just to sense-check your current settings, this shows:

Max feedrate M203 as X300, Y300, Z10, E50 mm/s
Max Acceleration M201 as X3000, Y3000, Z100, E10000 mm/s^2
Jerk M205 as X15, Y15, Z0.3, E5 mm/s

but also:

Default acceleration M204 P1000 R2000 T1500 mm/s^2

M204 sets max acceleration for printing (P), travel moves(T) and retract (R) (RRF does not use the R value in M204).

Converting these to mm/min, where appropriate, gives:
M203 X18000 Y18000 Z600 E3000 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X3000, Y3000, Z100, E10000 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
either: M205 X15 Y15 Z0.3 E5 : set jerk (mm/s)
or: M566 X900 Y900 Z18 E300 : set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M204 seems to be set to limit acceleration in printing moves (to X1000 Y1000) and travel moves (to X1500 Y1500).

I can't find a number for the motor current setting in Marlin, but it seems you have 1.7A motors, so 1200mA should be fine, up to 1450mA. But check all motors are the same.

From your earlier config.g I see a number of things when compared with the above:

M566 X600 Y600 Z60.00 E420.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X18000.00 Y18000.00 Z360.00 E1500.00 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X2000.00 Y2000.00 Z300.00 E10000.00 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)

You have jerk set much higher on Z; 60 mm/min vs 18. This could cause motors to lose steps. You have accelerations set much higher on Z; 300 mm/s^2 vs 100. Again, this could cause loss of steps. M204 seems to be set to limit acceleration in printing moves (to X1000 Y1000) and travel moves (to X1500 Y1500), which is much less than the M201 accelerations of X3000 Y3000; if yours is running much faster, it could be causing backlash in X and Y.

Try these settings:

M566 X600 Y600 Z18 E420.00            ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X18000.00 Y18000.00 Z360.00 E1500.00        ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X2000.00 Y2000.00 Z100.00 E10000.00            ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M204 P1000 T1500

This is going to drastically reduce the print speed, but I think better replicates the Marlin settings. Better to start slow, get it printing right, then speed it up by changing one thing at a time!

Edit: the settings you pulled off the old board:

Accel : 1000mm/s XY 100mm/s Z
Speeds: 200mm/s XY 4mm/s Z
Jerk: 15mm/s XY 0.4mm/s Z and 5mm/s E

... are still closer to the Github values for Z, especially for acceleration (Z100) and jerk (Z0.4mm/s = Z24mm/min), than what you have set in your config.g. Sorry, should have spotted this sooner!

Edited again for readability.

Ian

[jbirley]

@droftarts said in Issues with my Duet Maestro or bad config?:

... are still closer to the Github values for Z, especially for acceleration (Z100) and jerk (Z0.4mm/s = Z24mm/min), than what you have set in your config.g. Sorry, should have spotted this sooner!

Ian

no worries, the config has changed lot since i last posted the whole thing because i keep making changes as people suggest things so the settings were much closer to what you suggested than previously . I have set you suggested settings and will try a test print now

so as it stands the config is as below. note. the motors numbering and directions are all messed up as i have moved the connections around on the board as suggested above and have not moved them back yet.

; Configuration file for Duet Maestro (firmware version 3)
; executed by the firmware on start-up

; General preferences
G90                                            ; send absolute coordinates...
M83                                            ; ...but relative extruder moves
M550 P"Derek"                                  ; set printer name
M669 K1                                        ; select CoreXY mode

; Network
M552 P192.168.2.12 S1                          ; enable network and set IP address
M553 P255.255.255.0                            ; set netmask
M554 P192.168.2.1                              ; set gateway
M586 P0 S1                                     ; enable HTTP
M586 P1 S0                                     ; disable FTP
M586 P2 S0                                     ; disable Telnet

; Drives
M569 P0 S1 V1                                     ; physical drive 0 goes backwards
M569 P1 S1 D2                                 ; physical drive 1 goes forwards
M569 P2 S0 V1                                   ; physical drive 2 goes forwards
M569 P3 S0 V1												; physical drive 3 goes forwards
M569 P4 S1 V1									; physical drive 4 goes forwards

M584 X2 Y3 Z0:4 E1                               ; set drive mapping
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1                      ; configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z400 E430              ; set steps per mm
M566 P1 X600 Y600 Z18.00 E420            ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X18000.00 Y18000.00 Z360.00 E1500.00        ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X2000.00 Y2000.00 Z100.00 E10000.00            ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M204 p1000 T1500
M906 X1000 Y1000 Z1000 E1000 I30                   ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30                                        ; Set idle timeout

; Axis Limits
M208 X0 Y0 Z0 S1                               ; set axis minima
M208 X300 Y300 Z350 S0                         ; set axis maxima

; Endstops
M574 X1 S1 P"!xstop"                            ; configure active-low endstop for low end on X via pin xstop
M574 Y2 S1 P"!ystop"                            ; configure active-low endstop for low end on Y via pin ystop
M574 Z1 S1 P"!zstop+!e1stop"                            ; configure active-low endstop for low end on Z via pin zstop

; Z-Probe
M950 S0 C"zprobe.mod"                         ; create servo pin 0 for BLTouch
M558 P9 C"^zprobe.in" H5 F120 T6000            ; set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
G31 P500 X0 Y-42.8 Z1.1                            ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
M557 X50:250 Y50:250 S50                       ; define mesh grid

; Heaters
M308 S0 P"bedtemp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4138 ; configure sensor 0 as thermistor on pin bedtemp
M950 H0 C"bedheat" T0                          ; create bed heater output on bedheat and map it to sensor 0
M307 H0 R0.175 C745.8 D3.56 S1.00
M140 H0                                        ; map heated bed to heater 0
M143 H0 S120                                   ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
M308 S1 P"e0temp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4725 C0.0000000706  ; configure sensor 1 as thermistor on pin e0temp
M950 H1 C"e0heat" T1                           ; create nozzle heater output on e0heat and map it to sensor 1
M307 H1 R1.941 C309.177:309.177 D6.72 S1.00 B0
M143 H1 S280                                   ; set temperature limit for heater 1 to 280C                               

; Fans
M950 F0 C"fan0"                           ; create fan 0 on pin fan0 and set its frequency
M106 P0 S1.0 H1 T45                              ; set fan 0 value. Thermostatic control is turned on
M950 F1 C"fan1" Q500                           ; create fan 1 on pin fan1 and set its frequency
M106 P1 S0 H-1                                 ; set fan 1 value. Thermostatic control is turned off
M950 F2 C"fan2" Q500                           ; create fan 2 on pin fan2 and set its frequency
M106 P2 S0 H-1                                 ; set fan 2 value. Thermostatic control is turned off

; Tools
M563 P0 S"Hot End" D0 H1 F1:2                           ; define tool 0
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0                                ; set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0                                   ; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C

However i have made some good progress with checking the extruder as @lodger and @DIY-O-Sphere suggested, the filament path was fine however the grub screw holding the hobbed gear to the motor shaft was loose enough to allow it to move side to side, but not so loose it could come off the flat part of the shaft, i have sorted this now and the first print off is much better. I think unfortunately Im fighting against multiple issues which is making it hard to track down and a much more iterative process, but i do feel like Im making process at least this morning.

[jbirley]

Thanks all for your help. Pretty sure i have this tracked down to being a problem with the extruder, I only have on hand the bondtech BMG clone that came with the printer, and a titan clone i have kicking around for ages. I have changed to the titan and managed to get a good print at .2mm however at .1mm it just ate through the filament and underextruded. I am going to put this on pause for a while, I have ordered a genuine bondtech LGX, however with it being a brand new product its going to be a few weeks before its here I will report back then. Until then I'm just going to finish sorting other parts of the printer like building side panels and a top cover.

One thing I have got working is I'm running a Raspberry Pi in the electronics enclosure to make the maestro wifi, I have a step down converter going from a 24V line to 5V to power the Pi when the printer is switched on. Then I'm bridging the Pi wifi adapter across to the ethernet port and have a cable going from there into the maestro. I have not been kicking around the forums long enough to see if anyone has posted a guide on how to do this already but i'm happy to write one if there is any interest.

Joe

[jbirley]

Its here!

Much earlier than expected. Will let you know how it goes.

[jbirley]

So first things first, this thing is tiny so I decided to quickly make a direct drive mount for it in fusion, I did this for a few reasons, one like I said its tiny so not as much of an issue in having a bmg + full size stepper hanging off the top of the hot end, but mainly I did it because being able to print more materials + less print issues are more important to me than the speed increase I could get with a lighter hotend assembly, I never print that fast anyway because I like the printer to be quiet.

With that said it is honestly by far the best extruder i have used. It has fixed the weird extrusion issue i was having (although direct drive mounting the BMG clone would probably have helped with that) but mainly the tension lever is just so much easier than all other extruders i have used. Click it over to the left and the filament slides perfectly in and out, first click to the right for PLA and you are away. No faffing with tension screws.

first print off had some retraction issues. (printed in fillamentum PLA extrafill - Traffic White

I used Bondtechs recommended retaction settings or .4 mm at 35mm/s for direct drive and it was just not enough. Although to be fair to bondtech you could only really call my setup sudo direct drive as it has about a 60mm ptfe tube between the extruder and hotend.

Second print was better, .7mm retraction at 35mm/s. There were the odd strings still not visible in the image. Now the stringing was gone i did start to suspect the part cooling was not enough though, you can see the top or the doorway is not great. (printed in fillamentum PLA extrafill - Gold Happens

So i printed a Cali Cat because i have always found it to be a good indicator of part cooling ability and it pretty much confirmed my suspicion that the part cooling was not up to the job. Which is a shame really because the part cooling fans which came with the printer were by far the quietest I have ever used, which i guess is why they are not moving enough air. I have a really good Sunon blower fan i was using on the previous printer that at full speed is more likely to give you issues with the print being blown off the bed than poor cooling, even though it does sound like a jet engine i will probably swap out for that. (printed in some random PLA sample I was sent I had kicking around)

Next step I'm going to redesign the hotend mount to take a better part cooling fan and try and shorten the filament path between the extruder and hot end as much as possible