Poor print quality with RRF3 - especially 3.2.2.

hackinistrator

@deckingman said in Poor print quality with RRF3 - especially 3.2.2.:

How do you explain the print to print variability when nothing changes between prints - not even the filament?

firmware also didn't change between those prints .

i'm not saying the firmware is perfect . I'm just starting with duet3 and i can say that so far with all the various (minor) issues i had , the diagnostics (m122) was pretty much useless in my case .
i also didn't like the default homing files , which mark axis as homed even if i dont have a sensor attached to the board (no sensor = NO = HOMED...) . this could potentially cause damage as i'm using large high current motors .

back to topic ,
your print has no layer shifts , so i guess the problem is extrusion related .

if i were you , the first thing i would change is the filament . if you didn't print for 19 months , i guess that pla is more then 19 months old . pla degrades over time and its the easiest thing to change .that curling is good indication of degraded filament (if temps were ok).

next i would test extrusion / retraction (including firmware )
for example extrude 11mm and retract 1mm 10 times , measure if total is 100 . do this with various feed rates until you reach approx 1.5x your max printing feed rate.
if you think its something related to multi axis/ stepper movement then you can add movements during this test .

your test print is pretty large , i would use something smaller for tests , even benchy would be better .

fcwilt

@hackinistrator said in Poor print quality with RRF3 - especially 3.2.2.:

i also didn't like the default homing files , which mark axis as homed even if i dont have a sensor attached to the board (no sensor = NO = HOMED...) . this could potentially cause damage as i'm using large high current motors .

It can be setup either way - to stop the motors when homing is attempted or to allow them to run to the end of the axis.

You can of course use stall detection which doesn't rely on endstop sensors.

Frederick

JoergS5

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jens55

Yeah putting another unicorn printer in close proximity might get you into a heap of trouble with piles of little unicorn printers popping up everywhere - not a pretty sight!

(Couldn't help myself)

JoergS5

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dc42

@deckingman, please try a print using 3.3beta1. After homing and before printing, run M122 on all 4 boards to clear the stats. Then start the print. If/when it's looking bad, pause the print, run M122 on all the boards again, and post the results here. What I am particularly looking for is whether you get send timeouts on the main board and/or nonzero 'oos' counts on any of the expansion boards.

deckingman

@JoergS5 said in Poor print quality with RRF3 - especially 3.2.2.:

@hackinistrator I second that: I hesitated to propose to check something simple, because @deckingman is such an experienced user.

But if you look at the forum, there are often cases where, after a long search for complicated reasons, it was something simple like

dirty pulley or damaged belt

off-center pulley

old filament, being too wet

bent shaft of a stepper

damaged nozzle

The easiest would be to have a clone printer and compare the results. Unfortunately it's not so easy with a unicorn printer! But somehow it's necessary to find a decision between hardware and firmware problem.

Oh, please. A dirty pulley which magically cleans itself? (And the printer is in a dustproof booth). An off centre pulley which magically makes itself centred. The filament is a brand new reel but it's hard to imagine some metres of that reel could be wet, yet for the next print, it will be dry. A bent stepper shaft which straightens itself for one print and bends again for the next? A damaged nozzle which undamaged itself for the next print then damages itself again?

deckingman

@dc42 Thanks. Will do.

deckingman

One other thing that I hadn't mentioned, the printer doesn't have an RPi fitted - so this is all stand alone and anything to do with SBCs can be discounted. For what it's worth, I don't have a PanelDue either - just DWC on an aged laptop.

JoergS5

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droftarts

@deckingman Can you take a picture of the hot end setup at the moment? I don't think I've seen a picture of how your machine is currently configured. Might give some insight into any potential physical (rather than firmware) issues.

I assume you're using one of the six extruders to feed the hot end, but the others are still mounted. Another test to rule out extruder issues would be to swap to using a different extruder (if you haven't done this already).

Recently I had the grub screw loosen, that holds the hobbed drivegear on the motor shaft on a BMG extruder, just enough for it to wiggle a bit on the flat but not completely rotate free, and took me a while to figure out what was causing extrusion problems that are not wildly different from yours ('random' over and under extrusion, particularly at the end of lines; basically retraction wasn't doing anything, so filament oozed on moves). This was caused by swapping extruders around, as I've recently got an Orbiter v1.5, and not fully tightening the grub screw on the shaft when assembling for the 100th time. Might also explain why pressure advance stopped working for you.

Just to be clear, this is in no way meant to be condescending, just an observation.

Ian

deckingman

@droftarts As it happens, I had considered using one of the other 5 extruders that are mounted but otherwise unused with this particular hot end. IMO, it seems to be more extrusion related than carriage motion related. Odd that the problems can appear to be present for the whole of one print and then completely absent for the whole of another print - but not beyond the realms of possibility. I'm planning on swapping to 3.3. beta as per Davids suggestion, but if I get a bad print and nothing shows up on the diagnostics, I'll try another extruder.

The best way to describe the current hot end arrangement is to point you to a recent video I've posted in another thread https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/21919/curious-audible-pitch-change-with-varying-move-length

That link will take you to a video showing it "in action" but if you want some pics, let me know.

Edit, 'er on doors has got car problems that I need to sort out, so I might not get much done today.

droftarts

@deckingman Thanks, I was just watching the video!

Ian

deckingman

@droftarts Curious isn't it?

JayJay

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zapta

@JayJay said in Poor print quality with RRF3 - especially 3.2.2.:

Fan boy alert....

Why do you try to silence him?

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

o_lampe

@deckingman
I read the whole thread before I dared to ask: Don't you think it's funny, that it is always the first print that fails?
How do you store the filament? Maybe it needs some more time between storage and first print? A good wine needs to breeze, too

Just trying to think out off the box

deckingman

@o_lampe said in Poor print quality with RRF3 - especially 3.2.2.:

@deckingman
I read the whole thread before I dared to ask: Don't you think it's funny, that it is always the first print that fails?

Well, the sample size is small, so it may just be coincidental, but you aren't the first to point that out. Another coincidence is that I started another thread about my Z homing switch which sometimes erroneously gets reported as being triggered when it isn't. Cycling the power fixes it. To date, that has only ever happened first thing in the morning and never later in the day.

How do you store the filament? Maybe it needs some more time between storage and first print? A good wine needs to breeze, too

I store the filament in sealable bags, with silica gel desiccant inside each bag (the type that changes colour when it has absorbed moisture). The bagged reels of filament then go back inside their original boxes along with a slip of paper with the date when the filament was bought. The boxes are stored on a pull out rack which sits alongside the printer, and which is inside a dust proof "booth". Also inside this booth are two disposable type de-humidifiers of the type which use Calcium Chloride.

Any filament that is more than year old gets discarded (or I might use it in desperation but would be highly suspicious of any parts made with it).

Details of the storage rack are here https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/2019/12/13/pull-out-filament-storage-rack/

Details of the "booth" that houses the printer and rack are here https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/2019/11/27/new-home-for-my-printer/

jens55

@deckingman said in Poor print quality with RRF3 - especially 3.2.2.:

Any filament that is more than year old gets discarded (or I might use it in desperation but would be highly suspicious of any parts made with it).

Does that include original vacuum sealed packages that were never opened ?

deckingman

@jens55 said in Poor print quality with RRF3 - especially 3.2.2.:

@deckingman said in Poor print quality with RRF3 - especially 3.2.2.:

Any filament that is more than year old gets discarded (or I might use it in desperation but would be highly suspicious of any parts made with it).

Does that include original vacuum sealed packages that were never opened ?

No. I date them when I open them (break the seal). IMO, anything else is pointless unless they have a manufacturing date on them, which I've rarely seen. No system is perfect as one could get a reel that's been in storage for months or (even years conceivably) before one made the purchase.

Even then, I've had bad reels but it tends to be kind of obvious. Since a very bad experience with the eSun PET-G, I've learned to be suspicious of the first print with a new reel - foil and vacuum packed or otherwise.

I have a feeling that reel of eSun PETG fell overboard somewhere in the South China sea, was fished out after a months immersion, and only then put into a vacuum packed foil bag. I don't see how else it could have got so wet. I passed it on to a friend who spent hours and hours drying it but he never had much luck with it. Never bought any eSun filament since (although others swear by it).