Closed Loop Motor Setup
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@alankilian Ok Sounds Good!
I Don't Mind Doing Experiments, I Should Let you know that Im in the Middle of using this Printer with Normal Steppers to Print out parts to Build a Voron V2.4 3D Printer. Will Slap those Motors back on when Finished with the ABS Parts. Ill Be Printing for At least another Week
While Also Experimenting with a Filastruder to Make my Own PEEK and PEI Filament. Im Buried in Projects!
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@toastinator I couldn't get my super-old USBee logic probe to work with Windows 10 (No big surprise) so I'm going to send you my Saleae Logic16 probe instead.
When it gets there you should be able to hook the two motors up to unused axes (like U and V) and then do some G1 U10 V10 F600 (or whatever) moves and look at the pulleys and see if they start and stop at about the same time for various moves. Adding a bit of tape with a line on it will tell us you've got the steps-per-mm and microstepping right.
You can also capture the step signals coming out of your board to see if THEY start and stop at the expected times.
Driving these from both an Ardiono and a Duet2 expension connector made them work as I expect and they should be perfectly usable on a 3D printer.
(I'm still unconvinced that a 3D printer benefits from slosed-loop stepper motors, but I'm not the one trying this, so I'm willing to get you going if I can.)
I'll send the stuff back next week. You can return the logic16 when we've exhausted our experiments.
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@toastinator & @alankilian thank you so much for bringing this topic to its max and @alankilian thank you for investing your time analyzing theses motors. I have exact same motors for a Corexy printer setup and unfortunately the print quality is awful I’m using duet Ethernet and duex 5 the motors are connected via ConnLCD mapped to driver #10 and 11. T parameter set at 5.0 for all pulses which is the max of 200khz. The motors moves correctly and very accurate in terms of steps=Distance homes correctly sometimes I get errors when I’m homing where the X-axis stops few mm before touching the endStop here’s some pics of the print quality.
I’m not sure why it’s causing this inconsistency with print maybe because conn lcd only provide 3.3v and the motor driver requires 5V minimum. Or maybe timing not very responsive. I’m not sure. Sorry I didn’t mean to jump in to your conversation but I thought it might help share it. Thank you
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@moe-adams9093 Oh man, that really is horrible.
- What do you have your switches set to?
- Have you adjusted any of the settings via the serial-port interface and the Windows software?
As I said before, for this kind of 3D printing I don't see where a closed-loop stepper motor would improve print quality.
I get that if the head bangs into something that you won't layer-shift like an open-loop system, but it seems like closing the loop the way they are doing is more for high-speed speed-control improvements and not low-speed position-control improvements.
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@alankilian so I have them set on 6400 plus/rev 160steps assigned in config.g set on 25ms for better noise quality. I didn’t use the computer software to change settings so I did my research and kept everything on default. I got these motors because I want a high speed print something to reach 400mm per second. I don’t have whole lot of knowledge yet on testing closed loop so I’m still learning. So right now I’m modifying my motion system is heavy and I’m trying to make it very light so I can achieve a better and smoother motion. Also I ordered a logic level shifter to make signal 5V from conn lcd 3.3 v that might help and I’m not sure yet. But I think these motors are overkill for a 3d printer because let’s assume the nozzle hits the print while it’s printing the belt will 80% likely to skip the pulley teeth before the encoder realize it skipped a steps they are very strong. So I’m still doing my research. What software did you use to connect them via pc? I contacted the seller to see if they can provide the software and never got any response.
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@moe-adams9093 I got the software from @Toastinator I'm not sure I can share it, so contact him and see if he'll send you a link.
I just connected the Duet to the motor and it worked fine. Level translators shold be even better and remove any doubt about signalling.
(Actually, I connected the Duet to one end of a 2-meter VGA cable and the motor to the other end because I couldn't find and decent multistrand wire.)
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@alankilian I contacted jss motors last night and they just sent me the zipfile for the software. Did you use any RS232 breakout board to connect via USB and man there’s lots of settings in here to play with. So let’s say if I change anything what will I set the dip switch I’m assuming all set to default because it’s going to over write the default settings maybe?. Thank you
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@moe-adams9093 This motor uses "real" RS232 signal levels, so you do need a USB-to RS232 adapter. Most any will work.
You use the DIP switches to set some of the settings and the software to set others. So the DIP switch settings are still important.
SeemeCNC Rostock Max V3 converted to V3.2 with a Duet2 Ethernet Firmware 3.2 and SE300
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@toastinator said in Closed Loop Motor Setup:
While Also Experimenting with a Filastruder to Make my Own PEEK and PEI Filament. Im Buried in Projects!
Try PEKK instead of PEEK. Better than PEEK in some respects and waaaay easier to print
Duet controlled Jet Lathe, scratch built micro mill and 3d printer. 1992 Haas VF2 VMC retrofit
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@alankilian ok understood thank you for all your help. Do you mind if I came cross a problem or if I have a question regarding motor programming I can reach back to you
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@moe-adams9093 For sure. I'll send you my email address in a message.
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@alankilian @moe-adams9093 Just Read all your messages since my Last message.
@moe-adams9093 That is exactly what i have been seeing, Its a continuous Layer shift through the layers. Some Worse then others. Im hoping We can Resolve this. But Its not the end of the world. Just the end of $200.
@alankilian I sort of agree with you about Closed Loop Not Really adding any benefit, To me, Its more of a "Lets do everything we can to prevent a layer shift" (Although I can see as the motor increases the Torque, It just pops the print off the bed)
Im still in it for the rest of the People. This is a popular Motor for people to have. Getting it working should help quite a few.
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@3dpmicro That's what I Heard! But Its really Expensive. Im Buying PEEK Pellets for Roughly $45/Kg, Then The Power costs to produce the Filament when I get everything Set up.
Ill give it a shot when My Voron Gets Built. I Got CNC Aluminum Parts for the Voron Gantry So it can Handle the High Temperatures
PEKK is Something like $800/Kg I think PEEK is Slightly Cheaper Around $700/Kg. Only went with PEEK Because For Some Reason, Its $45/Kg for Pellets.
Know a Place to get Reasonably Price PEKK Pellets?
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I run these same motors on my printers, took me a long time to get them working correctly but I think I am close. I was getting inconsistent layer shifting until I started going crazy with the T parameters.
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@toastinator I was generally of the opinion that printing with something cheap, like solid gold, was easier than going for high-end PEKK and PEEK.
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@toastinator he's only showing pekk/cf pellets
https://www.3dxtech.com/products/pellets-colorants/ but you could inquire about unmodified Pekk although pekk/cf is my favorite by far. Second in modulus only to peek/Cf but is easy (relative) to print, makes good looking parts and can use all the way up to 260c.
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@3dpmicro Looks Really Good, Do you use a ruby Nozzle for that? Or Just a Plain Hardened Steel Nozzle? Thanks for the advice, Ill look into it
@mendenmh You could be Right, But I love a challange!
@taylo708 Are you Using a Duet 3 With Duet 3 Expansion 1XD Boards for these Motors? I went Crazy on the T Parameters with no Luck
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@toastinator Yes I am using Duet 3 with 3 expansion boards. I run them on x,y and z axis.
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@toastinator said in Closed Loop Motor Setup:
@3dpmicro Looks Really Good, Do you use a ruby Nozzle for that? Or Just a Plain Hardened Steel Nozzle? Thanks for the advice, Ill look into it
Slice engineering nozzle. Guaranteed not to wear out.....we'll see
Forgot to mention you want PEKK "C" not "A" -
@taylo708 Ok, Im only Using on X/Y Axis. My Z Axis has 3 Motors. Im Almost done Printing the Parts for my Voron 2.4 Build. When I get the Motors back, I Should be totally done and can Start Digging into why these are doing what they are doing.
@3DPMicro Gotcha Thanks, Have been Looking at the Slice Magnum Setup for a while
