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    Help with apparently too hot printing

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    Tuning and tweaking
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    • Luke'sLaboratoryundefined
      Luke'sLaboratory @fcwilt
      last edited by

      Well it's hard to tell from the picture but it looks like it is belt driven using one belt - perhaps 9mm. And it may have some sort of belt tensioning device.

      Given there may be 1000mm or more of belt that represents a pretty good spring which means accurately positioning a heavy bed (at speed) is going to be somewhat of a challenge.

      Without any hands-on experience I would suspect that 70 mm/sec is rather optimistic.

      If its a quality 9mm belt it should be fine. I run 9mm belt on my bed which is 5/16" mic6 with an AC heater and magsheet setup - its about 5kg all said and done and works fine over 300mm/s at 5kaccel. I bet the v-wheels aren't in the best orientation for the heavier bed load which could add, but I heavily suspect PA is responsible for the issues currently at hand.

      Luke
      http://lukeslab.online

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • jens55undefined
        jens55
        last edited by

        My latest test print have me out of ideas and filament (from the roll I have been using so far)

        I can report that pressure advance definitely was an issue !
        I can report that the switch to random seam shows only a tiny 'hickup' at any of the 4 corners. I will definitely have to run PA calibration though as a PA of 0 clearly shows PA issues. I always planned on calibrating that so that's not a huge surprise.
        If I print with support turned on and the overhang angle set to 50 degrees, I get support at just the four corners. This improves the outcome but with contact between the point of the corner and the support being ever so tiny and missing on occasion, I still had one corner that had some bending up causing problems.

        Things are vastly improved over the original model when all this started.

        So, where to go from here ...... since I used up the roll I was working with, I will try a different roll from a different manufacturer (or at least a different brand name) and see what happens.

        fcwiltundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • fcwiltundefined
          fcwilt @jens55
          last edited by

          @jens55

          Glad to hear you are making progress.

          I've never used PA but I'm thinking I may experiment with it.

          Frederick

          Printers: a E3D MS/TC setup and a RatRig Hybrid. Using Duet 3 hardware running 3.4.6

          engikeneerundefined jens55undefined Luke'sLaboratoryundefined 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • engikeneerundefined
            engikeneer @fcwilt
            last edited by

            @fcwilt you are missing out my friend! Even on direct drives, I've found a small amount helps

            E3D TC with D3Mini and Toolboards.
            Home-built CoreXY, Duet Wifi, Chimera direct drive, 2x BMG, 300x300x300 build volume
            i3 clone with a bunch of mods

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • jens55undefined
              jens55 @fcwilt
              last edited by

              @fcwilt, I started out with a Bowden setup (CR10) and PA is a noticeable (significant) improvement for that (even though I know people who use no PA). My second printer was the CR10 S5 which has a Bowden tube of probably close to 800 mm. It would be nuts to expect reasonable prints from that without PA.
              I am starting to work with direct drive extruders now and PA can help for the discerning person but isn't absolutely essential. It might be essential if you are doing soft stuff like TPU but haven't tried that yet.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • jens55undefined
                jens55
                last edited by

                Final update:
                Different filament did the same thing with curling at the points of the corners.

                I had previously reported that support at the corner edges helped but that one corner still had problems. I changed the X/Y/Z distances between support and the model in Cura which got me a solid support and no curling.

                To sum it up, the two big issues where pressure advance and support. I am sure I printed without support to at least 60 degrees of overhang before but maybe I didn't and maybe the shape of this model causes issues earlier but setting the support angle at 50 degrees and having the support close enough to the edge fixed all the issues. While the side angle was 45 degrees, the edge where two 45 degree sides meet must be just under 55 degree overhang.
                While I did go down to 180C from my normal 200C nozzle temp for PLA, I do not know if that was actually necessary given that support was the big issue. It did help when there was no support.

                Thank you to everybody that helped me sort through this issue !!!

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • jens55undefined
                  jens55
                  last edited by

                  Well well well ..... I think I jinxed it when I said 'final' update.

                  So I kept thinking about the blower fan I use for model cooling. Yes, it works, yes I can reduce the output and it turns nicely even at 25% .... but I just couldn't leave well enough alone.

                  I removed the fan so I could gauge the output a bit better and there clearly was output. Put a new fan on to compare - same thing.
                  Still wasn't happy so hooked up a power supply, hooked up one of the fans and got the same output.

                  Contemplated life a bit and decided that still wasn't good enough!
                  I dug out yet another new fan and hooked that up .... the output was probably 4 times as much air !!!!

                  I will attempt to print one more of the fence post caps but this time with proper air flow for cooling.
                  Boy will I be pissed off if it prints perfectly even with no support!
                  I will also get myself a new batch of better quality fans (this time ball bearings) !

                  I can't believe that there is a good chance that I spent 3 days or so printing because of a fan issue, the very first thing I checked and suspected!

                  All fans were marked as 24V and I use 24V but either two of the fans were 36 or 48V or defective (while behaving just fine except for low rpm)

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • Luke'sLaboratoryundefined
                    Luke'sLaboratory @fcwilt
                    last edited by Luke'sLaboratory

                    @fcwilt

                    If tuned correctly PA makes a world of difference printing fast.

                    @jens55 they could just be worse fans, unless they're the same brand/model. Fans are not equivalent even if they're the same size. Glad to see things are moving in the correct direction

                    Luke
                    http://lukeslab.online

                    jens55undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • jens55undefined
                      jens55 @Luke'sLaboratory
                      last edited by jens55

                      @luke-slaboratory, same brand of fan ... all from the same batch I ordered

                      Phaedruxundefined Luke'sLaboratoryundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • Phaedruxundefined
                        Phaedrux Moderator @jens55
                        last edited by

                        @jens55 said in Help with apparently too hot printing:

                        @luke-slaboratory, same brand of fan ... all from the same batch I ordered

                        Chinesium?

                        Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                        jens55undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • jens55undefined
                          jens55 @Phaedrux
                          last edited by

                          @phaedrux, you bet 🙂

                          MikeSundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • Luke'sLaboratoryundefined
                            Luke'sLaboratory @jens55
                            last edited by

                            @jens55 Yeesh. Unlucky 😕

                            Luke
                            http://lukeslab.online

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • MikeSundefined
                              MikeS @jens55
                              last edited by

                              @jens55 some fans does not like being pwm'd. Try changing the switching frequency of that fan when you declare it in config.g .

                              jens55undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • jens55undefined
                                jens55 @MikeS
                                last edited by

                                @mikes, I think you missed the part about me setting up a DC power supply to verify the fan operation with straight DC. I might not have been clear.

                                BTW, the model printed just fine without support and proper cooling ! There are still some edge artifacts but I am positive they are related to uncalibrated pressure advance and they are very minor.

                                MikeSundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • MikeSundefined
                                  MikeS @jens55
                                  last edited by

                                  @jens55 nice one! Happy you found the problem! Take your time and go into calibration steps for extruder steps, PA, filament flow and you are good almost for ever. At beginning i skipped steps because i tought they were not needed, but in the end the difference is remarkable. More if you try to speed up things.

                                  jens55undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • jens55undefined
                                    jens55 @MikeS
                                    last edited by

                                    @mikes , this is an example of my corners now:
                                    3d seam.jpeg
                                    The corner is on the right side and is perfect. I started a separate thread about trying to reduce the oddities of the seam that you can see to the left of the corner.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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