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    #- (hash) printer with super simple gantry

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    Example setups and prints
    anti-racking dual roller constraint hash printer
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    • o_lampeundefined
      o_lampe
      last edited by o_lampe

      I went for Maxwell temp-expansion layout, simply because I couldn't make up a way to fix one side without melting the bracket.
      Now I've used Haydn's ballstuds and 4mm PTFE tube as dowel pins. I guess that PTFE keeps the heat away from the brackets, better than (stainless) steel dowel pins.
      tripod_maxwell.jpg tripod_center.jpg tripod_corner.jpg

      I also filled the PTFE tube with pieces of wooden toothpicks to avoid sinking balls (pun intended)

      PS: magnets will arrive monday, I hope they fit in their pocket.

      fcwiltundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • fcwiltundefined
        fcwilt @o_lampe
        last edited by

        @o_lampe

        I did something like your setup but my rear support is a ball-stud sitting in a cup.

        Frederick

        Printers: a small Utilmaker style, a small CoreXY and a E3D MS/TC setup. Various hotends. Using Duet 3 hardware running 3.4.6

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • mikeabuilderundefined
          mikeabuilder
          last edited by

          We're using kinematic supports for the heated bed on a large printer we are designing at my local maker space. We started with the classic steel ball and parallel rod design, but questioned the steel rods. They provide a parallel point landings for the steel ball. This means that the round cross section is not important - the steel ball touches only at a point. After trying a few things we opted for two small rectangular steel plates (1.5mm thick) that we files a 45 degree slope on. We screw these to the bottom of the heated bed. Here's a sketch from our F360 design.

          e1b325e4-f838-4a14-884a-1be1e8b64d73-image.png
          e0cb168c-4eca-4a3c-a8fd-f9c7e620004e-image.png

          Next point - We are using the steel balls because we already bought them, but in the future I'd replace these with acorn nuts. I think just as good, easier to find, and much cheaper.

          Next point - If one of your kinematic supports is a ball and cup, it locks in two directions of motion, but not rotation. The other two joints need to be different. One of the two should have one parallel sliding joint (with the sliding axis going through the center of the cup. This joint provides a lock to rotation. The last joint should be a ball sitting on a plane. It only provides a Z support. If you make either of these joints constrain more movement than this, you will not have a true kinematic connection. Sort of anal and pedantic, but if you go down the kinematic connection path...

          Last point - I think keeping the balls on 120degree lines from a common center point, with the direction of sliding at each joint going through the center point, you will have the best solution.

          o_lampeundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • o_lampeundefined
            o_lampe @mikeabuilder
            last edited by o_lampe

            @mikeabuilder @fcwilt
            you both describe a Kelvin mount. I opted against it, because I wanted to have three identical ball-guides.

            A filed 45° corner would have to be perfectly machined. The Acorn nuts will drive you crazy, because they are only casted with high tolerances. (They are produced for the looks, not for accuracy)
            The 120° approach would be easy to implement on a circular bed on a Delta frame, but a square bed frame ends in 90+2x150° angles. Not too bad, 'cause we don't need equal expansion.

            The whole build is experimental, I expect more trouble with the XY gantry. (and slicer/firmware issues)

            fcwiltundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • o_lampeundefined
              o_lampe
              last edited by

              I made a short demo video as appetizer for things to come.
              It shows how two tools can draw different shapes at the same time. The other two tools can draw other shapes, but not at the same time.
              Four tools could draw/print the same pattern simultaneously, eg. the four feet of The Eiffel tower. That would even be easier to slice and postprocess...
              I'm using feltpens for now, but with extruders it would be ready to 3D print. (adjustment of individual Z-height per tool is important then)

              jay_s_ukundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • fcwiltundefined
                fcwilt @o_lampe
                last edited by

                @o_lampe said in #- (hash) printer with super simple gantry:

                @fcwilt
                you both describe a *[Kelvin mount]

                After reading about the different kinds of mounts I decided to follow your lead.

                I modified my printer to use a mount similar to yours.

                My bed is supported by a frame made from 20x20 extrusions and the mounting points are on the frame well away from the heat of the bed.

                I now have three one piece printed parts with a V for the ball to ride in.

                They seem to be working fine.

                Here is one of them:
                MF1 New Mount Part.jpg

                Thanks for leading me to a better design.

                Frederick

                Printers: a small Utilmaker style, a small CoreXY and a E3D MS/TC setup. Various hotends. Using Duet 3 hardware running 3.4.6

                o_lampeundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • jay_s_ukundefined
                  jay_s_uk @o_lampe
                  last edited by

                  @o_lampe looks very good! impressive that it can manage 2 different designs at once.
                  Looking forward to seeing this thing print!

                  Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF. Assume I'm running whatever the latest beta/stable build is

                  o_lampeundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • o_lampeundefined
                    o_lampe @jay_s_uk
                    last edited by

                    @jay_s_uk said in #- (hash) printer with super simple gantry:

                    impressive that it can manage 2 different designs at once.

                    Well, I cheated a bit since both objects have the same path-count.
                    circle vs square would be much harder to merge into one file.
                    Then I'd have to keep an eye on layer times. Probably have to slow down one tool to see them finish at roughly the same time.
                    I'd have to split long straights into short segments and sync them with the arc-moves (G2/G3 is another story)
                    And let's not forget the missing independant Z-adjustment, I'm still trying to figure out.

                    sigh we will see feltpen-demos forever 😉

                    jay_s_ukundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • jay_s_ukundefined
                      jay_s_uk @o_lampe
                      last edited by

                      @o_lampe I can see where that would be difficult. you'd also have to do something about ooze/moving a tool out the way as well

                      Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF. Assume I'm running whatever the latest beta/stable build is

                      o_lampeundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • o_lampeundefined
                        o_lampe @jay_s_uk
                        last edited by

                        @jay_s_uk Oozing can be nasty on multitool printers. I have a parking-slot on my IDEX printer, which has a nylon part where the nozzle rests on.
                        The good thing about the hashPrinter is, they (could) have way less tool changes than the classic toolchangers. (in the future)

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • o_lampeundefined
                          o_lampe @fcwilt
                          last edited by

                          @fcwilt said in #- (hash) printer with super simple gantry:

                          Thanks for leading me to a better design.

                          To be honest, in the end I wasn't sure if it's better. The arguments about misaligned guides made me think. But from a 3D perspective, the Maxwell design is easier to build. (How would I drill a really round hole with my cheap drillpress? They tend to be triangular)

                          cosmowaveundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • cosmowaveundefined
                            cosmowave @o_lampe
                            last edited by

                            @o_lampe said in #- (hash) printer with super simple gantry:

                            (How would I drill a really round hole with my cheap drillpress? They tend to be triangular)

                            try to use a reamer?!

                            Mankati FSXT+, DeltaTowerV2, E3D MS/TC

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • o_lampeundefined
                              o_lampe
                              last edited by

                              More and more test hours for the gantry and it is beginning to show an issue. The dual-dual roller constraint fails sometimes.
                              I think, I have to split the Aramid-line into two parts and fix the ends. Which means, I have to disassemble the whole gantry 😢

                              Before/after:
                              dual_dual-constraint.jpg newRollerConstraint.jpg

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • o_lampeundefined
                                o_lampe
                                last edited by

                                Just for the record, I have configured bed leveling (G32) and mesh leveling with the mini-IR probe.
                                It's blazing fast, the first G30 to set Z=0 always scares me 😱

                                o_lampeundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                • o_lampeundefined
                                  o_lampe @o_lampe
                                  last edited by

                                  @o_lampe Almost forgot to mention that it runs with the split dual roller constraint now and it never failed yet.

                                  It's time to add some extruders and print some benchies.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • o_lampeundefined
                                    o_lampe
                                    last edited by

                                    It's ALIVE...
                                    Actually no big things to report here, it just finished the first print. With only a single nozzle and without a fancy mini-Z axis. I just want to see if the two smooth rods are stable enough to carry a direct drive sherpa mini and to gather some experience with the new_to_me pertinax build plate. (feel free to share your findings with yours and PLA, PETG)

                                    The result reminds me a bit of my first prints on a Prusa i3...there's room for improvement 😉
                                    2021-10-21 19.54.36.jpg

                                    Sorry for the blurry pic, it's a screenshot from a short video
                                    sherpa.jpg

                                    o_lampeundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • o_lampeundefined
                                      o_lampe @o_lampe
                                      last edited by

                                      @o_lampe
                                      I have to add more tie-raps (*), just doubling up the drylin bearings doesn't help much.

                                      *) can you believe it, German hardware stores are running out off supplies?

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • oliofundefined
                                        oliof
                                        last edited by

                                        I use 0.5mm FR2 (pertinax) on flex steel sheet, needs a good sanding and then works pretty well and is very resistant to abuse (-;

                                        <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

                                        o_lampeundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • o_lampeundefined
                                          o_lampe @oliof
                                          last edited by

                                          @oliof I skipped the steelplate and placed it directly on selfadhesive ferro-film 1mm.

                                          What about bed-temps? I'm at 65C for first layer, but through the thick magnetic sheet the temp drops 5-8 degree (and takes extra pre-heat time of ca. 5min.)

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • oliofundefined
                                            oliof
                                            last edited by

                                            No discernible difference compared to PEI sheet at 0.5mm. I know it can take a long time to heat up at higher thickness.

                                            <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

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