Sovol SV08 Multiple Motion System Upgrade.

[dwuk3d]

Some inspiration for adding further features to my printer after looking at this very impressive video

https://youtu.be/M51bMMVWbC8?si=kyLhSQ2Y6XhIFs34

It does look very impressive and I can't imagine how that benchy stayed upright when it was just being held in place by that tiny chimney and filament was be added to the benchy in a horizontal direction,

I'm going to try and simulate his printer with his slicer in blender - should hopefully result in some interesting animations.

What interests me probably more than the non planer aspects - is the concept of printing onto the side rather than top of objects - which I think could bring a lot of efficiencies to multi colour printing.

As you only really need the colours on the outer surface - and so would be able to print most of the structure of an object in a single colour like white - and then colour it in with a few passes of the different colours applied to the top, bottom and sides.

Perhaps using a multiaxis printer like in the video, or maybe with something to rotate the print around in more dimensions instead.

I'm going to be adding rotary movement as the next stage of my multi head SV08.

This video inspired me to maybe allow at least one of the print heads to pivot up to a bit of an angle - rather than always facing downwards - and then use it to print onto the side of objects - rotated to the appropriate angle.

[o_lampe]

@dwuk3d What puzzles me is: he prints without a heated bed and he's able to print at the center of a rotating bed.
And he doesn't even mention this, like it's a common thing.

I'd like to see some prints with single colour filament, just to see how clean the surface looks. IMHO, there are way to many artifacts, but they're obscured with pixie dust filament

[dwuk3d]

@o_lampe I do a lot of my long prints without heat on a Bambulab cool plate - mainly to allow for long overnight or out of the house pauses. Bed adhesion for PLA is actually so good I can't use it for small fragile things.

I'm going to make mine heated though from the outset - and just use the standard SOVOL square build plate - perhaps with the corners chopped off if it won't quite rotate.

I notice now on relooking at the video that he has a very wide brim around the chimney - and some of his other prints look ok - so I wonder if the artifscts you noticed are due to wobble because of the very thing chimney.

When printing the sails of my very tall Sea Cloud model (see youtube) I had to add braces between the sails at a few heights to stop the wobble.

You are right about that filament hiding print quality defects - I was actually thinking of purchasing 3 rolls of it for my printer for when I get on to some big parallel prints - as I thought it might hide the joints a bit.

Re printing in the centre - I think it is possible - but just extremely slow. I got the impression that the non planer solution demonstrated is pretty slow - even for the outer parts.

[dwuk3d]

Youtube response about probing.

there is quite a lot more work required to get really good bed levelling.
At present it does 3 stages all only using inductive probes at the moment.

1. Initial Z homing on the front extruder inductive probe only.
2. 4xZ axis motor adjustment using front inductive probe only.
3. Rear right inductive probe based Micro Z alignment vs front micro Z alignment using the two inductive probes.

What I need to add is

1. Use of the inductive probe on the new 3rd print head
2. Use of the Z height values from the ball probe
3. Bed mesh probing from one or all of the inductive probes.
4. I also have an eddy probe for fast bed meshing which I haven't deployed yet.
5. I can also do 'voron tap' type probing by lowering each head to actually touch the bed and then use the optical sensor on each head. I did this for one of the heads - but it all got a bit too confusing - but ultimately I think that type of probing is going to be more accurate than the inductive probes.

Also all probing is currently one probe at a time - whereas i think there are some opportunities for doing some things in parallel.

[dwuk3d]

Quite pleasantly surprised to find that slip rings not as expensive as I was expecting - this one for example looks to me more than enough for my needs

Re -print head alignment / dimensional accuracy- I'm think I might get a second ball probe to have on the same arm - with the camera in the middle.

I could then probe each head 4 times - with the arm in two positions.

Should from this be able to get pretty accurate dimensional accuracy /adjustment info.

All of the probing points will need to be in the central area where all of the heads can reach,

Might even be able to do two lots of probing at the same time if I can make the heads as thin as possible in the X direction.

Will also switch over the servo to a stepper motor.

[dwuk3d]

Think I might need a Roto toolboard for when I add an INDX to my front gantry.
Nb/ my picture of the INDX toolhead is slightly bigger than the real thing according to Bondrech.

Might get one now as it could also help with reducing the width on my rear right extruder too - although I suppose I could just rotate the 1LC upwards so that it doesn't take up so much space.

[o_lampe]

I wouldn't use a slip ring for a heated bed. At least I wouldn't trust the Chinese specs too much.
Maybe you can get away with it by using a 230V heater with a SSR? But that opens another rabbit hole.

[dwuk3d]

@o_lampe the bed is already mains with an SSR - so I was planning on putting the SSR output through the slip ring, plus the temperature sensor.

Are you saying that would be ok - or that I should look at a better quality slip ring?

I suppose continuous rotation would only be a novelty feature - I wouldn't need a slip ring for 90,180,270,180,90,0 rotation - which is the main reason fir me adding it.

So I could drop it if a good quality one is going to be massively expensive,

I could always disconnect the cables and use a bambulab cool plate for continuous rotation demo's.

[o_lampe]

@dwuk3d Almost forgot the thermistor....If you can, double up the lines for it, to reduce false readings from bad slip ring contacts.
If you already use an SSR, you know the possible downsides of bang-bang bed heating. I did that for a long time and it didn't bother me.

A more general concern is your project-philosophy, if I may critize you.
As a former project manager, I know it's important to set three things before you even start:

• define a goal (and stick with it)
• define a timeline (not so important here)
• define a budget

Especially ignoring the first one often leads to unfinished projects...just saying

[dwuk3d]

@o_lampe thanks good idea about doubling up - that slip ring has 6 connections and I only need 4 - so I can double up the heater ones - 20A 230v would be masses more than I need.

I haven't done enough actual printing on the SV08 to find any heat bed issues - but it seems to maintain temps ok - although I did get a failure with the PID tuning,

Point taken about the project approach.

One of the advantages of not having a sponsor is not being restricted to specific goals, dates or budgets.

But you might be right that there is a risk of me losing interest in the project - especially as I've just booked a QM2 cruise - so really want to do a model of that ship before I go - so that I can get some comparison photos.

So far all of my changes are just reordering things that were already in the plan (or when better technology like INDX vs Stealthchanger comes along).

On this subject though I am about to change around my bed slinger approach a fair bit to not have a longer bed - but instead just move about 150mm - and add the ability to link multiple SV08's with this ability together - to get 350x700 or 350x1050 for example - with the build plates slightly overlapping the heated beds.

Will probably do dual gantry - but only single heads on the second SV08.

That will then deliver my original plan (and most popular video so far) - see Prusa Multi Mini.

My immediate plans (which I may change)

1. Get 3 headed build working well - with fully parallel, faster printing
2. Rotating bed
3. Angled extruder on rotating bed
4. 150mm bed slinging
5. 2nd linked or independent SV08 with 150mm bed slinging
6. 4th print head - probably on stealthchanger to allow for offloading.
7. iNDX - which may slot in earlier if previous steps go past December.

[dwuk3d]

Still away - so no progress on actual printer.

A few more Bondtech INDX diagrams (Renders from Autodesk Fusion) - with some options of where to place the PTFEs.
Might actually be better turning the whole thing around and having the PTFEs on the back with the head reversed on the rear gantry.

With the front gantry having the IDEX Sovol print heads on it.

With PTFE's starting at the front of the flying gantry.

with PTFE's starting at the top.

With improved modelling of the air pipe.

[dwuk3d]

Having trouble getting the same Hanpose Nema11 x 28 lead screw motors for last extruder in a reasonable time.

Considered ordering normal Nema11's, couplers and lead screws.

But decided to go for these instead - will have to take them apart and cut down the lead screw - but delivery in a few days.
I also get a free linear rail and carriage which might be useful -

Also ordered a second ball probe for dimensional alignment

[dwuk3d]

@dwuk3d said in Sovol SV08 Multiple Motion System Upgrade.:

@droftarts Will be interesting to see if the video gets much pick up as it is certainly a very elegant design and could completely remove the need for me to add single nozzle multiplexing on top of tool changing - plus also remove the need for lots of electronics and motors etc. for the extra tools and multiplexer

Might do a better version of the video with a few animations of the different options next.

Finally got round to starting on some INDX/SV08 animations - which will eventually include my currently planned 2 Gantry, 3 Toolhead, rotating bed version - with some full multi colour ship print simulations.

Blender is very powerful - but I find it very hard to use compared to Fusion - I find I have to google at least half of the commands, including ones I have used only a few minutes ago - due to the odd keystrokes with combinations of modifier keys.

Doesn't help too that I am using a Mac - whereas most of the documentation and explanation videos use the windows versions of the keystroke modifier keys.

The INDX on SV08 renders I did last week got retweeted by both SOVOL and BONDTECH which was good.

[dwuk3d]

Started making some progress on the Trindex SV08 printer again.

Did some simple size test prints - and started getting issues with Z offsets.

I think I will have to improve my Z alignment - either by using 'voron tap' on all of the tools, or possibly using the ball probe Z offsets.

Plus a more serious issue.

When serial 3 headed printing - but with parallel print priming and colour switching between T1 (UV) and T0 (XY) - T0 consistently layer shifts about 10mm in the X and 5mm in the Y - and the layer shift if quite fast.

I had this issue a while ago and thought it was related to the Z hopper - but I have turned the Z hopping off on XY and are still getting the issue.

If I do similar prints with T2 (WV) and T0 (XY) - both of them print fairly well.

I have seen some oddities in normal alignment testing with X and Y sometimes jumping when I switch between tools - so not sure if it is an issue with my config, macros, slicer GCODE or a 3.5.4 problem.

Will continue investigating to try and get the problem to occur in a more simple gcode file without parallel printing.

Or might just try setting up another tool - T3 - and assign that to the UV - to see if I get the same issues.

[o_lampe]

@dwuk3d said in Sovol SV08 Multiple Motion System Upgrade.:

Plus a more serious issue.

I might have to do with endstop offset adjustment.

[dwuk3d]

@o_lampe thanks - do you mean G92's.

I don't think I have any of those in my macros that would be invoked mid print - the problem occurs mid layer 2 = when the printing switches back between T1 to T0. But I will check.

I think though that something is changing the endstop offsets for the Y and Y axis and then jumping them quickly to the new position.

I have noticed some unexpected behaviour when moving around between tools and mapped axis - but haven't really found a way to recreate the issue.

If I don't manage to resolve the problem I suppose I could try removing the X and Y mapping completely from the T1 and T2 tools definitions , and instead post process the G0-G3's to specify U,V & W instead when using T1 or T2.

Ps - the sequence is
Homing.z offsets
Motion system 1 - layer 1 - print T0 section ok
Motion system 0 - layer 1 - wait for pre-heat, delay, preheat, T1 print prime, wait for print T0 to finish, T1 print layer 1, move Z up to layer 2, T1 print layer 2.
Motion system 1 - layer 2 - wait for pre-heat, delay, preheat, T0 prime for layer 2, wait for T1 to finish, T0 head jumps to incorrect position, T0 print layer 2 - with layer shift

[droftarts]

@dwuk3d said in Sovol SV08 Multiple Motion System Upgrade.:

Finally got round to starting on some INDX/SV08 animations - which will eventually include my currently planned 2 Gantry, 3 Toolhead, rotating bed version - with some full multi colour ship print simulations.

Nice animations!

Blender is very powerful - but I find it very hard to use compared to Fusion - I find I have to google at least half of the commands, including ones I have used only a few minutes ago - due to the odd keystrokes with combinations of modifier keys.

I keep shying away from learning Blender, but then I don't need to animate or simulate anything; Fusion 360 does everything I need for now. I know some people use Blender for all their CAD work, but that seems a bit masochistic.

Doesn't help too that I am using a Mac - whereas most of the documentation and explanation videos use the windows versions of the keystroke modifier keys.

I use a Mac too. So far, Fusion 360 has worked well, I haven't had any issues. A couple of years ago I was running it on an 2013 MacBook Pro, where performance was lacking when working with large models and rendering, so updated my desktop PC (I7-10700K with RX 6600XT - runs Windows 10/11, Linux, and MacOS with OpenCore), but after spending a long time trying to get it to run well, I ultimately bought an M2 14" MacBook Pro, which has been brilliant. Haven't turned on my PC for a long time! If I need to test something in Windows, I use Windows 11 ARM on VMware Fusion.

The INDX on SV08 renders I did last week got retweeted by both SOVOL and BONDTECH which was good.

Nice, fame at last! Maybe they could send some dev kit your way.

Ian

[dwuk3d]

@droftarts Yes I really like Fusion 360 too.

I did try doing a whole ship model in Blender - mainly due to the perspective corrector add-on - which is a really good way of tracing 3d objects when they are at an angle or have perspective distortion.
Ultimately though I gave up when print quality wasn't as good, plus having the spend ages wrestling will the models to correct model mesh errors.

I'm still using a 2020 MacBook Air 8gb M1 - and it works pretty well - although it really started to struggle with this combined model - which I know would work easily in Blender. - I might upgrade to an M4 at some point with a larger screen for when I am away.

I got a PC too mainly for rendering of animations - which are about 60x faster on the 4070 Super/Ryzen7950X3D/32GB - vs the M1 GPU. Blender runs slightly quicker on Linux - but I usually do my rendering in windows 11.

Put up a couple more videos with a bit more detail, one of which got retweeted by Sovol - so fame building further. What would be really good though is if Sovol (or someone else) gets together with Bondtech to release a fully built, tested and supported INDX printer.

Free stuff might be nice - but I think it changes it from being a hobby - and starts putting pressure on to deliver. I haven't applied for the Bondtech Beta Programme as don't want to be sworn to secrecy.
PCBway have been in contact too about the triple headed printer videos - I guess having their logo on would add a certain amount of Kudos - but I don't think I need any custom PCBs - might need some CNC stuff though when I got to the rotary bed phase - but probably won't pursue it.

Makerworld Boost points are pretty handy though for filament, plus Bambulab are selling quite a lot of parts too now. Plus might partially pay for an H2D if I decide to go for one. It's not until you try and create a printer do a major upgrade that you realise how much work must have gone into the X1C to make it so good.

https://youtu.be/3ecm2H41xLM?si=iIreYIUxHuVA6TiY

https://youtu.be/7MPa1tk-rNc

[dwuk3d]

Back to printer -

New Z Hopper motors arrived - bought full linear actuators - which I will take apart - as seems to be most cost effective way to source Nema 11 lead screw motors

Tap sensoring now working.

Logic is
1.Home All
2. G32 Z motor alignment
3. Then for each print head
4. Move other print heads 2mm up so that they are out of the way
5. Align Z hopper to just trigger optical sensor
6. Move head down about 0.02 mm to just past the trigger point.
7. Switch probes/endstops so that the Z axis now has the Z hopper end stop as its trigger. (inverted)
8. Move Z down until print head hits to bed and then pushes up slightly within the play of the print head to disable the triggered optical sensor.
9. Repeat for various points of the print bed,

Short demo - showing tapping and play/flex - which might end up being a problem
https://youtu.be/5FGALqWV4t8

Example Tap test macro.

;tap A.g
M98.1 A"B On"
;reset probes to correct values

M574 Z1 S2 K0; configure Z axis endstop
M574 A1 P"122.io2.in" S1 ; configure A axis endstop


G90
G1 Z3 F1000
G1 D{global.dOffset+2} F1000
G1 B{global.bOffset+2} F1000

var speed = 400
;var w = {224, 224, 324, 324}
;var v = {310, 210, 210, 310}
var w = {160, 200, 200, 160, 324}
var v = {160, 160, 240, 240, 310}
var point1 = -1


while iterations < 5
    var iGrid = iterations
    G1 W{var.w[var.iGrid]} V{var.v[var.iGrid]} F10000
    ;echo "W",var.w[iterations],"V",var.v[iterations]
    while iterations < 2

        M574 Z1 S2 K0; configure Z axis endstop
        M574 A1 P"122.io2.in" S1 ; configure A axis endstop
        var aMax = 0
        var aPos = 0
        var aMin = 99
        while iterations < 1
            G1 A3 F{var.speed}
            M400
            var aProbe = sensors.endstops[6].triggered
            if var.aProbe
                abort "A Probe already triggered"

            G1 H4 A-2 F{var.speed}
            set var.aPos = move.axes[6].machinePosition
            ;echo "D trigger pos",var.dPos
            if var.aPos > var.aMax 
                set var.aMax = var.aPos
            if var.aPos < var.aMin
                set var.aMin = var.aPos

        var aProbe = false
        if var.aMax-var.aMin > 0.03
            echo "variation",var.aMax-var.aMin,var.aMin,var.aMax
        while iterations < 4
            ;echo "i",iterations
            G1 A{var.aPos-0.01*iterations} F{var.speed}
            M400
            set var.aProbe = sensors.endstops[6].triggered
            if !var.aProbe
                abort "A Probe not triggered"
                
            else
                if iterations > 1
                    echo "lowered head ",0.01*iterations,"mm"
                break



        M574 A1 P"122.io3.in" S1 ; configure A axis to temporary Endstop
        M574 Z1 P"!122.io2.in" S1 ; configure Z Axis to A end stop inverted
        var zPos = 0


        G1 Z{var.zPos+2} F500
        M400
        set var.aProbe = sensors.endstops[2].triggered

        if var.aProbe
            abort "AZ Probe already triggered"
            
        G1 H4 Z-7 F{var.speed}
        set var.zPos = move.axes[2].machinePosition
        if var.point1 == -1
            set var.point1 = var.zPos

        echo "A zPos",var.zPos,"W",var.w[var.iGrid],"V",var.v[var.iGrid],"point",var.iGrid,"var",var.zPos-var.point1
        G1 Z3 F1000



;restore probes
M574 Z1 S2 K0; configure Z axis endstop
M574 A1 P"122.io2.in" S1 ; configure A axis endstop 
;    122.io3.in - dummy endstop when A swapped out