Sovol SV08 Multiple Motion System Upgrade.

o_lampe

@dwuk3d Almost forgot the thermistor....If you can, double up the lines for it, to reduce false readings from bad slip ring contacts.
If you already use an SSR, you know the possible downsides of bang-bang bed heating. I did that for a long time and it didn't bother me.

A more general concern is your project-philosophy, if I may critize you.
As a former project manager, I know it's important to set three things before you even start:

define a goal (and stick with it)
define a timeline (not so important here)
define a budget

Especially ignoring the first one often leads to unfinished projects...just saying

dwuk3d

@o_lampe thanks good idea about doubling up - that slip ring has 6 connections and I only need 4 - so I can double up the heater ones - 20A 230v would be masses more than I need.

I haven't done enough actual printing on the SV08 to find any heat bed issues - but it seems to maintain temps ok - although I did get a failure with the PID tuning,

Point taken about the project approach.

One of the advantages of not having a sponsor is not being restricted to specific goals, dates or budgets.

But you might be right that there is a risk of me losing interest in the project - especially as I've just booked a QM2 cruise - so really want to do a model of that ship before I go - so that I can get some comparison photos.

So far all of my changes are just reordering things that were already in the plan (or when better technology like INDX vs Stealthchanger comes along).

On this subject though I am about to change around my bed slinger approach a fair bit to not have a longer bed - but instead just move about 150mm - and add the ability to link multiple SV08's with this ability together - to get 350x700 or 350x1050 for example - with the build plates slightly overlapping the heated beds.

Will probably do dual gantry - but only single heads on the second SV08.

That will then deliver my original plan (and most popular video so far) - see Prusa Multi Mini.

My immediate plans (which I may change)

Get 3 headed build working well - with fully parallel, faster printing
Rotating bed
Angled extruder on rotating bed
150mm bed slinging
2nd linked or independent SV08 with 150mm bed slinging
4th print head - probably on stealthchanger to allow for offloading.
iNDX - which may slot in earlier if previous steps go past December.

dwuk3d

Still away - so no progress on actual printer.

A few more Bondtech INDX diagrams (Renders from Autodesk Fusion) - with some options of where to place the PTFEs.
Might actually be better turning the whole thing around and having the PTFEs on the back with the head reversed on the rear gantry.

With the front gantry having the IDEX Sovol print heads on it.

With PTFE's starting at the front of the flying gantry.

with PTFE's starting at the top.

With improved modelling of the air pipe.

dwuk3d

Having trouble getting the same Hanpose Nema11 x 28 lead screw motors for last extruder in a reasonable time.

Considered ordering normal Nema11's, couplers and lead screws.

But decided to go for these instead - will have to take them apart and cut down the lead screw - but delivery in a few days.
I also get a free linear rail and carriage which might be useful -

Also ordered a second ball probe for dimensional alignment

Screenshot 2025-05-10 at 13.30.03.png

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Screenshot 2025-05-10 at 13.35.50.png

dwuk3d

@dwuk3d said in Sovol SV08 Multiple Motion System Upgrade.:

@droftarts Will be interesting to see if the video gets much pick up as it is certainly a very elegant design and could completely remove the need for me to add single nozzle multiplexing on top of tool changing - plus also remove the need for lots of electronics and motors etc. for the extra tools and multiplexer

Might do a better version of the video with a few animations of the different options next.

Finally got round to starting on some INDX/SV08 animations - which will eventually include my currently planned 2 Gantry, 3 Toolhead, rotating bed version - with some full multi colour ship print simulations.

Blender is very powerful - but I find it very hard to use compared to Fusion - I find I have to google at least half of the commands, including ones I have used only a few minutes ago - due to the odd keystrokes with combinations of modifier keys.

Doesn't help too that I am using a Mac - whereas most of the documentation and explanation videos use the windows versions of the keystroke modifier keys.

The INDX on SV08 renders I did last week got retweeted by both SOVOL and BONDTECH which was good.

dwuk3d

Started making some progress on the Trindex SV08 printer again.

Did some simple size test prints - and started getting issues with Z offsets.

I think I will have to improve my Z alignment - either by using 'voron tap' on all of the tools, or possibly using the ball probe Z offsets.

Plus a more serious issue.

When serial 3 headed printing - but with parallel print priming and colour switching between T1 (UV) and T0 (XY) - T0 consistently layer shifts about 10mm in the X and 5mm in the Y - and the layer shift if quite fast.

I had this issue a while ago and thought it was related to the Z hopper - but I have turned the Z hopping off on XY and are still getting the issue.

If I do similar prints with T2 (WV) and T0 (XY) - both of them print fairly well.

I have seen some oddities in normal alignment testing with X and Y sometimes jumping when I switch between tools - so not sure if it is an issue with my config, macros, slicer GCODE or a 3.5.4 problem.

Will continue investigating to try and get the problem to occur in a more simple gcode file without parallel printing.

Or might just try setting up another tool - T3 - and assign that to the UV - to see if I get the same issues.

o_lampe

@dwuk3d said in Sovol SV08 Multiple Motion System Upgrade.:

Plus a more serious issue.

I might have to do with endstop offset adjustment.

dwuk3d

@o_lampe thanks - do you mean G92's.

I don't think I have any of those in my macros that would be invoked mid print - the problem occurs mid layer 2 = when the printing switches back between T1 to T0. But I will check.

I think though that something is changing the endstop offsets for the Y and Y axis and then jumping them quickly to the new position.

I have noticed some unexpected behaviour when moving around between tools and mapped axis - but haven't really found a way to recreate the issue.

If I don't manage to resolve the problem I suppose I could try removing the X and Y mapping completely from the T1 and T2 tools definitions , and instead post process the G0-G3's to specify U,V & W instead when using T1 or T2.

Ps - the sequence is
Homing.z offsets
Motion system 1 - layer 1 - print T0 section ok
Motion system 0 - layer 1 - wait for pre-heat, delay, preheat, T1 print prime, wait for print T0 to finish, T1 print layer 1, move Z up to layer 2, T1 print layer 2.
Motion system 1 - layer 2 - wait for pre-heat, delay, preheat, T0 prime for layer 2, wait for T1 to finish, T0 head jumps to incorrect position, T0 print layer 2 - with layer shift

droftarts

@dwuk3d said in Sovol SV08 Multiple Motion System Upgrade.:

Finally got round to starting on some INDX/SV08 animations - which will eventually include my currently planned 2 Gantry, 3 Toolhead, rotating bed version - with some full multi colour ship print simulations.

Nice animations!

Blender is very powerful - but I find it very hard to use compared to Fusion - I find I have to google at least half of the commands, including ones I have used only a few minutes ago - due to the odd keystrokes with combinations of modifier keys.

I keep shying away from learning Blender, but then I don't need to animate or simulate anything; Fusion 360 does everything I need for now. I know some people use Blender for all their CAD work, but that seems a bit masochistic.

Doesn't help too that I am using a Mac - whereas most of the documentation and explanation videos use the windows versions of the keystroke modifier keys.

I use a Mac too. So far, Fusion 360 has worked well, I haven't had any issues. A couple of years ago I was running it on an 2013 MacBook Pro, where performance was lacking when working with large models and rendering, so updated my desktop PC (I7-10700K with RX 6600XT - runs Windows 10/11, Linux, and MacOS with OpenCore), but after spending a long time trying to get it to run well, I ultimately bought an M2 14" MacBook Pro, which has been brilliant. Haven't turned on my PC for a long time! If I need to test something in Windows, I use Windows 11 ARM on VMware Fusion.

The INDX on SV08 renders I did last week got retweeted by both SOVOL and BONDTECH which was good.

Nice, fame at last! Maybe they could send some dev kit your way.

Ian

dwuk3d

@droftarts Yes I really like Fusion 360 too.

I did try doing a whole ship model in Blender - mainly due to the perspective corrector add-on - which is a really good way of tracing 3d objects when they are at an angle or have perspective distortion.
Ultimately though I gave up when print quality wasn't as good, plus having the spend ages wrestling will the models to correct model mesh errors.

I'm still using a 2020 MacBook Air 8gb M1 - and it works pretty well - although it really started to struggle with this combined model - which I know would work easily in Blender. - I might upgrade to an M4 at some point with a larger screen for when I am away.

I got a PC too mainly for rendering of animations - which are about 60x faster on the 4070 Super/Ryzen7950X3D/32GB - vs the M1 GPU. Blender runs slightly quicker on Linux - but I usually do my rendering in windows 11.

Put up a couple more videos with a bit more detail, one of which got retweeted by Sovol - so fame building further. What would be really good though is if Sovol (or someone else) gets together with Bondtech to release a fully built, tested and supported INDX printer.

Free stuff might be nice - but I think it changes it from being a hobby - and starts putting pressure on to deliver. I haven't applied for the Bondtech Beta Programme as don't want to be sworn to secrecy.
PCBway have been in contact too about the triple headed printer videos - I guess having their logo on would add a certain amount of Kudos - but I don't think I need any custom PCBs - might need some CNC stuff though when I got to the rotary bed phase - but probably won't pursue it.

Makerworld Boost points are pretty handy though for filament, plus Bambulab are selling quite a lot of parts too now. Plus might partially pay for an H2D if I decide to go for one. It's not until you try and create a printer do a major upgrade that you realise how much work must have gone into the X1C to make it so good.

https://youtu.be/3ecm2H41xLM?si=iIreYIUxHuVA6TiY

https://youtu.be/7MPa1tk-rNc

dwuk3d

Back to printer -

New Z Hopper motors arrived - bought full linear actuators - which I will take apart - as seems to be most cost effective way to source Nema 11 lead screw motors

Tap sensoring now working.

Logic is
1.Home All
2. G32 Z motor alignment
3. Then for each print head
4. Move other print heads 2mm up so that they are out of the way
5. Align Z hopper to just trigger optical sensor
6. Move head down about 0.02 mm to just past the trigger point.
7. Switch probes/endstops so that the Z axis now has the Z hopper end stop as its trigger. (inverted)
8. Move Z down until print head hits to bed and then pushes up slightly within the play of the print head to disable the triggered optical sensor.
9. Repeat for various points of the print bed,

Short demo - showing tapping and play/flex - which might end up being a problem
https://youtu.be/5FGALqWV4t8

Example Tap test macro.

;tap A.g
M98.1 A"B On"
;reset probes to correct values

M574 Z1 S2 K0; configure Z axis endstop
M574 A1 P"122.io2.in" S1 ; configure A axis endstop


G90
G1 Z3 F1000
G1 D{global.dOffset+2} F1000
G1 B{global.bOffset+2} F1000

var speed = 400
;var w = {224, 224, 324, 324}
;var v = {310, 210, 210, 310}
var w = {160, 200, 200, 160, 324}
var v = {160, 160, 240, 240, 310}
var point1 = -1


while iterations < 5
    var iGrid = iterations
    G1 W{var.w[var.iGrid]} V{var.v[var.iGrid]} F10000
    ;echo "W",var.w[iterations],"V",var.v[iterations]
    while iterations < 2

        M574 Z1 S2 K0; configure Z axis endstop
        M574 A1 P"122.io2.in" S1 ; configure A axis endstop
        var aMax = 0
        var aPos = 0
        var aMin = 99
        while iterations < 1
            G1 A3 F{var.speed}
            M400
            var aProbe = sensors.endstops[6].triggered
            if var.aProbe
                abort "A Probe already triggered"

            G1 H4 A-2 F{var.speed}
            set var.aPos = move.axes[6].machinePosition
            ;echo "D trigger pos",var.dPos
            if var.aPos > var.aMax 
                set var.aMax = var.aPos
            if var.aPos < var.aMin
                set var.aMin = var.aPos

        var aProbe = false
        if var.aMax-var.aMin > 0.03
            echo "variation",var.aMax-var.aMin,var.aMin,var.aMax
        while iterations < 4
            ;echo "i",iterations
            G1 A{var.aPos-0.01*iterations} F{var.speed}
            M400
            set var.aProbe = sensors.endstops[6].triggered
            if !var.aProbe
                abort "A Probe not triggered"
                
            else
                if iterations > 1
                    echo "lowered head ",0.01*iterations,"mm"
                break



        M574 A1 P"122.io3.in" S1 ; configure A axis to temporary Endstop
        M574 Z1 P"!122.io2.in" S1 ; configure Z Axis to A end stop inverted
        var zPos = 0


        G1 Z{var.zPos+2} F500
        M400
        set var.aProbe = sensors.endstops[2].triggered

        if var.aProbe
            abort "AZ Probe already triggered"
            
        G1 H4 Z-7 F{var.speed}
        set var.zPos = move.axes[2].machinePosition
        if var.point1 == -1
            set var.point1 = var.zPos

        echo "A zPos",var.zPos,"W",var.w[var.iGrid],"V",var.v[var.iGrid],"point",var.iGrid,"var",var.zPos-var.point1
        G1 Z3 F1000



;restore probes
M574 Z1 S2 K0; configure Z axis endstop
M574 A1 P"122.io2.in" S1 ; configure A axis endstop 
;    122.io3.in - dummy endstop when A swapped out

dwuk3d

Printing getting better. I don't think the original problems with the flag in the video a few months ago were dimensional inaccuracies or alignment issues - rather the fact the it was cutting off some of the colours due to Axis limits.

dwuk3d

Z offset Tapping now working quite reliably as long as the print heads are clean.

Lots more work to do on timings and speed, and print head design - but printer starting to come together.

droftarts

@dwuk3d One of the first multicolour prints we did at RepRapPro with the Tri-colour Mendel, around 2013/14, was a Union Flag!

alt text

I don't have any pictures of the print, but the files are here: https://github.com/reprappro/Interesting-3D-Prints/tree/master/RRP Union flag2

Our other favourite was the multicolour frog: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:329436

Ian

dwuk3d

@droftarts Cool - looks like that 3 colour printer predates the Prusa MMU1 by quite a lot.

dwuk3d

Front extruder now rebuilt with Nema11.

Had to cut some of the shaft off, and I think I can bring the motor down about another 13mm if I cut more of the shaft off.

All heads now being on Nema11's should now enable proper Z hopping and (with the aid of a post processor) some independent Mesh adjustment.

Also moved the front extruder off of sensorless homing on to Optical End stops.

With the X and B (Z Hopper) Axis sharing a single sensor.

Did find one tiny issue - I accidentally used the wrong filename homeb.g instead of homex.g when I was creating my new optical end stop file - I had previously renamed the homex.g to homex_sensorless.g

Instead of telling me the homeb.g file already existed I think it just wiped it out - so I had to recreate it from scratch.

Also - when switching endstops between different Axis I am finding that in order to release an end stop from the old Axis and need to give it another one - so I am using one of the unused io[x].in from one of the boards to swap that into the old axis end stop - so that it releases the end stop - so that I can assign it to the new Axis.

Not sure if this is the best way to do it - especially as I am gradually using more and more of the io[x].in's for things.

dc42

@dwuk3d said in Sovol SV08 Multiple Motion System Upgrade.:

Also - when switching endstops between different Axis I am finding that in order to release an end stop from the old Axis and need to give it another one - so I am using one of the unused io[x].in from one of the boards to swap that into the old axis end stop - so that it releases the end stop - so that I can assign it to the new Axis.

Just set the endstop position to 'none' in M574, e.g. M574 X0 will release the IO input that was previously used by the X endstop.

dwuk3d

@dc42 Thanks will try that

dwuk3d

Still having issues with Multiple motion systems and layer shifts.

It went away for a while - but it has now moved from T0 to T1 - during parallel priming.

I thought it might be due to my priming being in a replacement command Macro - M801.

M801 moves the print head - and then it seems to return back to where it was before calling the macro - sometimes quite fast.

So I changed the Macro that calls M801 to pre-position the print head where it will end up after the M801 before calling it - and that has reduced the unexpected moves.

Still getting the issue though where on the 3rd perimeter of the T1 priming cycle (which is in parallel to T0) the print head rapidly moves to the wrong place.

I wonder if it is macro related.

Update - found a pattern I think

What is happening is the on motion system 0 - T1 is priming

On motion system 1
T0
--Park XY Macro
----M800 - which moves the T0 Z Hopper B Axis up
----T0
----Move X&Y out of the way
---M800 - which moves to T0 Z Hopper B Axis down.

If I change M800 so that it doesn't move the B Axis then I don't get the issue.
Or if I remove the M800's from ParkXY

I think the B Axis is somehow related to the problem I had with tool 0 also.

Tool and Axis definitions attached below

; Smart Drivers
M569 P0.0 S1 D2 ; driver 0.0 goes forwards (Z axis)
M569 P0.1 S1 D2 ; driver 0.1 goes forwards (Z axis)
M569 P0.2 S0 D2 ; driver 0.2 goes backwards (Z axis)
M569 P0.3 S1 D2 ; driver 0.3 goes forwards (X axis)
M569 P0.4 S0 D2 ; driver 0.4 goes backwards (Y axis)
M569 P1.3 S1 D2 ; driver 0.5 goes backwards (Z axis) - changed to 1.3 forwards
;M569 P1.0 S0 D3 V2000 ; driver 1.0 goes backwards (U axis)
;M569 P1.1 S0 D3 V2000 ; driver 1.1 goes backwards (V axis)
M569 P1.0 S0 D2; driver 1.0 goes backwards (U axis)
M569 P1.1 S0 D2 ; driver 1.1 goes backwards (V axis)
M569 P1.4 S0 D2 ; Z-hopper 2
M569 P0.5 S1 D2 ; Z-hopper 1
M569 P1.5 S0 D2 ; VH Axis Left
M569 P1.6 S1 D2 ; VH Axis Right
M569 P1.2 S1 D2 ; U AXIS Z Hopper

M569 P121.0 S0 D2 ; driver 121.0 goes backwards (extruder 0).  X
M569 P122.0 S0 D2 ; driver 122.0 goes backwards (extruder 1).  C
M569 P123.0 S0 D2 ; driver 123.0 goes backwards (extruder 2).  U

; Motor Idle Current Reduction
M906 I30 ; set motor current idle factor
M84 S30 ; set motor current idle timeout

; Axes
M584 X0.3 Y0.4 Z0.1:0.2:0.0:1.3 U1.0 V1.5:1.6 W1.1 A1.4 B0.5 D1.2; set axis mapping


; Tools
;     X:Y:Z:U: V:W:A:B:C:D
;     0 1 2 3. 4 5 6 7 8 9


M563 P0 D0 H1 F0 ; create tool #0.    XYB
M568 P0 R0 S0 ; set initial tool #0 active and standby temperatures
;M563 P1 D1 H2 F2 ; create tool #1

;Tool T1 - Left Nozzle - 2nd Gantry as X and Y.  UVD
;M563 P1 D2 H3 F4
M563 P1 D2 X3 Y4 H3 F4
G10 P1 X0 Y0 U0 V0 S0 R0
M568 P1 R0 S0 ; set initial tool #1 active and standby temperatures

;Tool T2 - Right Nozzle 2nd Gantry as X and Y.   WXA
;M563 P2 D1 H2 F2
M563 P2 D1 X5 Y4 H2 F2
G10 P2 X0 Y0 U0 V0 S0 R0
M568 P2 R0 S0 ; set initial tool #1 active and standby temperatures

dwuk3d

Quite good progress made today.

Managed to work around the G32 Bed.g alignment issue I occasionally have, and also got the probe alignment to be fairly reliable.

Decided to push the speeds up - from 100 to 300, and accelerations up from 2000 to 6000 - all working ok and looking quite impressive.

Am now trying to fix the just in time parallel prime synchronisation - to get all colour swaps sub second.

The pre-heats from OrcaSlicer that I have specified as 20 seconds - actually vary between 9s and 21 seconds- so even if my delay calculations were perfect it is still pretty much impossible to get perfect timing that way.

So plan a - for reprints is to capture the actual time in an array that is echo'd into a file, and then use it to get precise timings for reprints.
Am also investigating simulation - some macro's seem to run - but not sure if it is possible to capture actual times.

Might have to try and work out the segment print times myself in a post processor - but real printing or simulation likely to be the best solution.

Finally doing some comparison prints of the same model with an X1C - there are only 6 colour changes in my flag model, and my accelerations are still quite a lot slower (vs 10,000 on the X1C), but the good news is that my actual print is already about double the speed of the X1C print, plus also the prep time despite all of my alignment stuff is a fair bit quicker too.

Comparison video with the two prints side by side in the works.