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    Problems with new Laser Filament Monitor

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    Filament Monitor
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    • deckingmanundefined
      deckingman @insertnamehere
      last edited by

      @insertnamehere The rotation direction of the motor needs to be reversed compared to an original CR10. It doesn't mean that you fit the entire unit back to front or upside down. I have both left and right hand versions on my printer and the left hand versions have opposite motor rotation to the right hand version because the driven gear is on the opposite side of the filament. That's all it means.

      Ian
      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
      https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

      insertnamehereundefined elmoretundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • insertnamehereundefined
        insertnamehere @deckingman
        last edited by

        @deckingman said in Problems with new Laser Filament Monitor:

        @insertnamehere The rotation direction of the motor needs to be reversed compared to an original CR10. It doesn't mean that you fit the entire unit back to front or upside down. I have both left and right hand versions on my printer and the left hand versions have opposite motor rotation to the right hand version because the driven gear is on the opposite side of the filament. That's all it means.

        You did see the picture above yes? You see that the bowden tube going into the bowden push fit adapter?

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        • elmoretundefined
          elmoret @deckingman
          last edited by

          @deckingman It does seem odd, and I'm not sure why Bondtech recommends it (unless there's not space to mount it conventionally, hard to tell), but I would say from the photo that @insertnamehere is correct, the filament travels from right to left in that photo. Otherwise, putting the microswitch on the (typically) discharge end of the Bondtech wouldn't do any good, as it would never see that filament had run out.

          deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • brunofportoundefined
            brunofporto
            last edited by

            You can use a hobbs wheel and use the laser sensor to measure the hobbs movement instead. The it will work independently of filament type.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • 3dmntbighkerundefined
              3dmntbighker
              last edited by

              I have two BMG's and Bondtech DEFINITELY suggest using it with filament going in either direction. Especially based on the 3D printable parts they suggest using. I thought it was odd when I realized what they were suggesting too. In my case they are both direct drive to E3Dv6 so I have to figure out how to use my laser sensors. I ordered one for both of my printers.

              Making filament move a wheel for the sensor to watch adds complexity but it might be the best way to use optical sensing? I may have to remix something on Thingi. You probably want to gear UP the movement, or make the wheel diameter where the filament runs past a lot smaller than the sensor part of the wheel. Aren't you skirting very close to just using a purpose built optical encoder though at this point? 😉

              Scratch built CoreXY with Maestro
              Heavily modified Ender 3 with Maestro
              MPCNC work in progress with Duet WiFi

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              • insertnamehereundefined
                insertnamehere
                last edited by insertnamehere

                @T3P3Tony I want to hold off on the RMA until you can try the eSun filament. There is a chance it may work for you and the problem is mine.

                I really like the concept of the filament sensor and really would like it to work. Can you let me know if you have been able to test with the filament I use?

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                • insertnamehereundefined
                  insertnamehere
                  last edited by

                  @T3P3Tony Just a question on the design of the laser monitor.
                  Looks like the optical sensor is mounted perpendicular to the filament.

                  Am I correct?

                  If so, I'm wondering why this design choice was made, given that laser sensors and the LED in optical mice are positioned opposite each at angles to the surface so the light source can illuminate the surface irregularities better.

                  Out of interest I ran the problem PETG filament length-ways over the sensor on a laser mouse. Had no problems sensing movement.

                  I know, not exactly rigorous testing, but interesting.

                  dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • deckingmanundefined
                    deckingman @elmoret
                    last edited by

                    @elmoret said in Problems with new Laser Filament Monitor:

                    @deckingman It does seem odd, and I'm not sure why Bondtech recommends it (unless there's not space to mount it conventionally, hard to tell), but I would say from the photo that @insertnamehere is correct, the filament travels from right to left in that photo. Otherwise, putting the microswitch on the (typically) discharge end of the Bondtech wouldn't do any good, as it would never see that filament had run out.

                    OK I concede and apologise. I was using my 'phone so didn't look at the picture. In my defence, I did say in my OP that it might work. However, it still seems an odd thing to do especially as the BMG is available in both left and right hand versions to enable access to the release lever for any installation.

                    Ian
                    https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                    https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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                    • dc42undefined
                      dc42 administrators @insertnamehere
                      last edited by

                      @insertnamehere said in Problems with new Laser Filament Monitor:

                      @T3P3Tony Just a question on the design of the laser monitor.
                      Looks like the optical sensor is mounted perpendicular to the filament.

                      Am I correct?

                      If so, I'm wondering why this design choice was made, given that laser sensors and the LED in optical mice are positioned opposite each at angles to the surface so the light source can illuminate the surface irregularities better.

                      Out of interest I ran the problem PETG filament length-ways over the sensor on a laser mouse. Had no problems sensing movement.

                      I know, not exactly rigorous testing, but interesting.

                      In the sensing chip, the image sensor is mounted next to the laser. So we can't control the distance between them, only the distance to the filament and the direction that the filament runs. At present we have the filament running over the centre of the laser and the centre of the image sensor, which I thought would give the best response. I guess we could try running the filament at right angles to that direction, in which case it would have to run over the centre of the laser but would not run over the image sensor at all.

                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                      • brunofportoundefined
                        brunofporto
                        last edited by brunofporto

                        Have you tried my casing design? I have a large exposed length of filament based on a hypothetical aperture I calculated from some datasheet parameters.

                        I had no issues with shiny metallic petg or translucent materials with it. Just make sure you cut the filament tip diagonally so it enters the exit hole nicely 😄

                        alt text

                        https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3119908

                        T3P3Tonyundefined insertnamehereundefined timcurtis67undefined 3dmntbighkerundefined 4 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • T3P3Tonyundefined
                          T3P3Tony administrators @brunofporto
                          last edited by

                          @brunofporto Thanks, I have not tried it but will do!

                          www.duet3d.com

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • insertnamehereundefined
                            insertnamehere @brunofporto
                            last edited by

                            @brunofporto said in Problems with new Laser Filament Monitor:

                            Have you tried my casing design? I have a large exposed length of filament based on a hypothetical aperture I calculated from some datasheet parameters.

                            I had no issues with shiny metallic petg or translucent materials with it. Just make sure you cut the filament tip diagonally so it enters the exit hole nicely 😄

                            alt text

                            https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3119908

                            In fact I used your design first. I liked the look of it.

                            After I found that I had problems sensing shiny petg I switched to the Duet reference design.
                            I found both yours and the reference casing gave the same results.

                            Since you and @T3P3Tony have had reasonable results sensing petg maybe it's just that I have a faulty sensor?

                            When @T3P3Tony can test the same filament type this may prove to be the case.

                            brunofportoundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • T3P3Tonyundefined
                              T3P3Tony administrators
                              last edited by

                              David has also suggested we test filament at an angle.

                              @insertnamehere I have ordered the esun filament but it is not on a fast delivery here in the UK for some reason (Amazon - next week) so will test ASAP.

                              www.duet3d.com

                              timcurtis67undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • brunofportoundefined
                                brunofporto @insertnamehere
                                last edited by

                                @insertnamehere said in Problems with new Laser Filament Monitor:

                                I found both yours and the reference casing gave the same results.

                                Thanks!!! 😄 I will make a shorter version then, this one sometimes is very difficult to feed the filament. And I will adopt your hold solution (use the groove mounting as I have a similar extruder setup).

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • timcurtis67undefined
                                  timcurtis67 @brunofporto
                                  last edited by timcurtis67

                                  @brunofporto said in Problems with new Laser Filament Monitor:

                                  Have you tried my casing design? I have a large exposed length of filament based on a hypothetical aperture I calculated from some datasheet parameters.

                                  I had no issues with shiny metallic petg or translucent materials with it. Just make sure you cut the filament tip diagonally so it enters the exit hole nicely 😄

                                  alt text

                                  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3119908

                                  I modified your housing to run the filament through at a 10 angle to see if it makes any difference in the accuracy. I don't post on Thingiverse but here is a link to the STL files. Note I have not printed these yet so there could be fit issues.

                                  https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1b8wBl5uZ1qwoimONZLIcWlFULOlNsJaq?usp=sharing

                                  0_1540999841589_Angled Filament Sensor.JPG

                                  0_1540999850268_Angled Filament Sensor Cutaway.JPG

                                  Once I confirm if the angle approach works I will go back and "pretty up" the housing.

                                  brunofportoundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • timcurtis67undefined
                                    timcurtis67 @T3P3Tony
                                    last edited by

                                    @t3p3tony said in Problems with new Laser Filament Monitor:

                                    David has also suggested we test filament at an angle.

                                    @insertnamehere I have ordered the esun filament but it is not on a fast delivery here in the UK for some reason (Amazon - next week) so will test ASAP.

                                    I will be testing this theory by Friday. I'll report back.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • brunofportoundefined
                                      brunofporto @timcurtis67
                                      last edited by

                                      @timcurtis67 It is already pretty 😄

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                                      • insertnamehereundefined
                                        insertnamehere
                                        last edited by insertnamehere

                                        Since the prusa laser filament monitor uses the same sensor as the Duet, I did a few searches and turns out that the prusa sensor has problems with black petg also. Prominently eSun.

                                        https://www.reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/83sq1f/problems_with_mk3_filament_sensor_with_black_petg/

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                                        • insertnamehereundefined
                                          insertnamehere
                                          last edited by

                                          I'm finding problems detecting eSun Yellow PLA also.

                                          Duet3D laser filament monitor on endstop input 3, disabled, allowed movement 50% to 145%, check every 3.0mm, current position -6.8, brightness 92, shutter 17, measured minimum -15%, average 50%, maximum 130% over 479.8mm

                                          @T3P3Tony can you tell me what the min, average and max percentages represent?
                                          What causes a negative percentage?
                                          Is the filament monitor still usable with numbers like this?

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • 3dmntbighkerundefined
                                            3dmntbighker @brunofporto
                                            last edited by 3dmntbighker

                                            @brunofporto Thanks, I'm starting with your design on my Ender 3 printed with eSun black PLA. I think you need a bit more surface area "bite" on the tubing.

                                            Scratch built CoreXY with Maestro
                                            Heavily modified Ender 3 with Maestro
                                            MPCNC work in progress with Duet WiFi

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