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    Leveling the bed...

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    • TLeTourneauundefined
      TLeTourneau @Phaedrux
      last edited by

      @phaedrux said in Leveling the bed...:

      Are you actually using F0?

      Try this

      M558 P9 H5 F100 T6000 A5 R0.3 S0.005 B1
      G31 P25
      

      Thanks, I'm giving that a try now. I've also calculated my average Z offset and added it to the G31 so my gcode looks like this now:

      M558 P9 H5 F100 T6000 A5 R0.3 S0.005 B1            ; Set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
      G31 P25 X-42 Y-4 Z-0.50                            ; Set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
      

      Thanks,
      Tom

      TronXY X5S-500 (CoerXY)
      Duet 2 Ethernet v1.04
      Firmware Version: 2.02(RTOS) (2018-12-24b1)
      Web Interface Version: 1.22.6
      7" PanelDue
      E3D V6 Clone
      MOSFET's for hot end
      1000w Keenovo with SSR for heat bed
      dc42 Mini IR Sensor or BLTouch

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      • Phaedruxundefined
        Phaedrux Moderator
        last edited by

        I'm concerned that your z offset is negative. How did you measure it?

        Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

        TLeTourneauundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • TLeTourneauundefined
          TLeTourneau @Phaedrux
          last edited by

          @phaedrux said in Leveling the bed...:

          I'm concerned that your z offset is negative. How did you measure it?

          I had the printer at Z0 and issued a M208 S1 Z-3, I then moved the print head to the center of the bed and placed a small sheet of paper between the hot end and the bed and raised the bed until there was a slight drag on the paper. I then checked the Z reading on the display which was -0.50. I did the same thing for each screw location along with X20:Y165 and X325:Y165. I manually adjusted the levelers until the perimeter and center were all at Z-0.50. I was under the impression that this should be done to account for the trigger height variance. I could possibly adjust the probe mount to compensate for the trigger height variance but I did not want to introduce other variables by messing with the mount.

          Thanks,
          Tom

          TronXY X5S-500 (CoerXY)
          Duet 2 Ethernet v1.04
          Firmware Version: 2.02(RTOS) (2018-12-24b1)
          Web Interface Version: 1.22.6
          7" PanelDue
          E3D V6 Clone
          MOSFET's for hot end
          1000w Keenovo with SSR for heat bed
          dc42 Mini IR Sensor or BLTouch

          Phaedruxundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • JoergS5undefined
            JoergS5 @TLeTourneau
            last edited by JoergS5

            @tletourneau Maybe you want to consider a different reason for your funny looking printbed heat map: the trapezoid screws which connects the spindles to the frame of the heat bed are not backlash free, so when your stepper changes direction, you will have some error everytime. When you move down, steps are lost by moving the screw from the bottom flank to the upper of the screw. The printer thinks the bed to be lower than it is in reality. You can test it by forcing the bed and screw to be always at the bottom of the spindle by putting some 2 kg weight on the heat bed and testing again. (Generally, the heat bed is always at the bottom by the bed weight, but you have a stiff construction, so spindle-bed-spindle could have some tension and could clamp the screw to remain on top). I measured my spindle backlash to be 0.1 mm.

            TLeTourneauundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • Phaedruxundefined
              Phaedrux Moderator @TLeTourneau
              last edited by

              @tletourneau It's just that with this probe type it expects the probe to trigger before the nozzle reaches the bed, and a negative value may be converted by the firmware to a positive value anyway.

              Furthermore, the BLTouch needs to be mounted with the base of the probe body 8mm above the nozzle tip which should result in a trigger height close to 2mm.

              0_1542490437580_BLTouchZHeight.png

              https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Test_and_calibrate_the_Z_probe#Section_Calibrate_the_Z_probe_trigger_height

              With such a constrained bed with 6 leveling screws it will be difficult to prevent some warping. Have you tried removing 3 of the screws to allow for a 3 point leveling system?

              Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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              • TLeTourneauundefined
                TLeTourneau @JoergS5
                last edited by

                @joergs5 said in Leveling the bed...:

                @tletourneau Maybe you want to consider a different reason for your funny looking printbed heat map: the trapezoid screws which connects the spindles to the frame of the heat bed are not backlash free, so when your stepper changes direction, you will have some error everytime. You can test it by forcing the bed and screw to be always at the bottom of the spindle by putting some 2 kg weight on the heat bed and testing again. (Generally, the heat bed is always at the bottom, but you have a stiff construction, so spindle-bed-spindle could have some tension and could clamp the screw to remain on top). I measured my spindle backlash to be 0.1 mm.

                Thanks, I'm going to invest in anti-backlash spring loaded nuts to see if that helps. I'm just trying to figure out which ones to order.

                I am now getting random Z probe readings not consistent errors. I'm trying to figure that out now.

                Thanks,
                Tom

                TronXY X5S-500 (CoerXY)
                Duet 2 Ethernet v1.04
                Firmware Version: 2.02(RTOS) (2018-12-24b1)
                Web Interface Version: 1.22.6
                7" PanelDue
                E3D V6 Clone
                MOSFET's for hot end
                1000w Keenovo with SSR for heat bed
                dc42 Mini IR Sensor or BLTouch

                Phaedruxundefined JoergS5undefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • TLeTourneauundefined
                  TLeTourneau @Phaedrux
                  last edited by

                  @phaedrux said in Leveling the bed...:

                  @tletourneau It's just that with this probe type it expects the probe to trigger before the nozzle reaches the bed, and a negative value may be converted by the firmware to a positive value anyway.

                  Furthermore, the BLTouch needs to be mounted with the base of the probe body 8mm above the nozzle tip which should result in a trigger height close to 2mm.

                  0_1542490437580_BLTouchZHeight.png

                  https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Test_and_calibrate_the_Z_probe#Section_Calibrate_the_Z_probe_trigger_height

                  With such a constrained bed with 6 leveling screws it will be difficult to prevent some warping. Have you tried removing 3 of the screws to allow for a 3 point leveling system?

                  I though that I was able to get the sensor mounted per the instructions and it at the correct 8mm offset but I will make a new jig and double check.

                  Thanks,
                  Tom

                  TronXY X5S-500 (CoerXY)
                  Duet 2 Ethernet v1.04
                  Firmware Version: 2.02(RTOS) (2018-12-24b1)
                  Web Interface Version: 1.22.6
                  7" PanelDue
                  E3D V6 Clone
                  MOSFET's for hot end
                  1000w Keenovo with SSR for heat bed
                  dc42 Mini IR Sensor or BLTouch

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Phaedruxundefined
                    Phaedrux Moderator @TLeTourneau
                    last edited by Phaedrux

                    @tletourneau said in Leveling the bed...:

                    I am now getting random Z probe readings not consistent errors. I'm trying to figure that out now.

                    The errors were already there (as shown in your height map) they are being reported now because of the M558 A5 S0.005 I had you add. A5 means it will try and probe up to 5 times until it gets two readings that are within 0.005 of the trigger height. If it can't get an agreed value it reports the error.

                    So something is not right with your probe. Is it a genuine BLTouch or a clone? You can take the pin out by removing the set screw at the top of the probe. Check it for dirt or damage. Clean it with alcohol. reinstall it and try again.

                    Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                    TLeTourneauundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • TLeTourneauundefined
                      TLeTourneau @Phaedrux
                      last edited by

                      @phaedrux It's a genuine Bltouch, I checked the SN on the website when I received it.

                      https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GVCX74T/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

                      I'll clean the pin and see if that helps.

                      I want to thank everyone for the help, I really appreciate it.

                      Thanks,
                      Tom

                      TronXY X5S-500 (CoerXY)
                      Duet 2 Ethernet v1.04
                      Firmware Version: 2.02(RTOS) (2018-12-24b1)
                      Web Interface Version: 1.22.6
                      7" PanelDue
                      E3D V6 Clone
                      MOSFET's for hot end
                      1000w Keenovo with SSR for heat bed
                      dc42 Mini IR Sensor or BLTouch

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                      • JoergS5undefined
                        JoergS5 @TLeTourneau
                        last edited by JoergS5

                        @tletourneau Instead of anti backlash screws you can try to loose one of the steppers, so it can self adjust and there is no tension between spindle - bed frame- spindle, but the stepper is not allowed to rotate. Analog to the idea of fixed bearing - loose bearing.

                        The screw in front on the left seems to be bent, maybe from heating the bed, temperature expansion and this can lead to bed bending also.
                        The best article I know how to design a heat bed is: https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/2017/07/ultra-megamax-dominator-3d-printer-bed.html

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                        • Phaedruxundefined
                          Phaedrux Moderator
                          last edited by

                          Have you actually tried a test print to see how flat the bed actually is?

                          Something like this is a good way to test.

                          0_1542493718946_bedlevel_nozzle_0.4_200x200-0.3-0.8.stl

                          Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                          • TLeTourneauundefined
                            TLeTourneau @Phaedrux
                            last edited by

                            @phaedrux not yet, I wanted to get a good bed compensation first but I'll try to do a print. I want to test the new hot end. 🙂

                            I did order a borosilicate plate for it, would this work as an interface between the glass and the bed?

                            https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XG4QV1X/ref=crt_ewc_title_dp_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A30U07HIVF5QFE

                            Thanks,
                            Tom

                            TronXY X5S-500 (CoerXY)
                            Duet 2 Ethernet v1.04
                            Firmware Version: 2.02(RTOS) (2018-12-24b1)
                            Web Interface Version: 1.22.6
                            7" PanelDue
                            E3D V6 Clone
                            MOSFET's for hot end
                            1000w Keenovo with SSR for heat bed
                            dc42 Mini IR Sensor or BLTouch

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • Phaedruxundefined
                              Phaedrux Moderator
                              last edited by

                              The nice part about an actual print is that it takes the probe completely out of the equation and let's you visualize the bed surface without abstraction.

                              If you use that STL I posted and tweak your slicer settings so that each line is made up of two extrusion lines you'll be able to tell easily where on the bed is too low or two high.

                              Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                              • mikebridgeundefined
                                mikebridge
                                last edited by mikebridge

                                on my tronxy x5s with the same issue (appearing to 'arc up' in the middle of the bed when the bed should be showing a slight sag), it was overtightened screws for the smooth rods on either side of the Z motors, that was enough to pull the y axis 2020 into a sag in the middle.

                                edit: i should have read the entire thread before responding, seems you already addressed this and have moved on to another issue.

                                375x360x415 CoreXY DuetWifi + Duex5
                                24v 600w, E3D Chimera, Zesty Nimble CC, BLTouch, X&Y linear rails, dual Z motors

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                                • TLeTourneauundefined
                                  TLeTourneau @mikebridge
                                  last edited by

                                  @mikebridge said in Leveling the bed...:

                                  on my tronxy x5s with the same issue (appearing to 'arc up' in the middle of the bed when the bed should be showing a slight sag), it was overtightened screws for the smooth rods on either side of the Z motors, that was enough to pull the y axis 2020 into a sag in the middle.

                                  edit: i should have read the entire thread before responding, seems you already addressed this and have moved on to another issue.

                                  I appreciate the reply though! I've determined in the interim that my bed is warped and the most recent mesh map aligns with what my machinist level shows. As I don't necessarily want to replace the bed I have ordered a 330x330x3mm piece of borosilicate glass and a 500x500x0.5mm high temp silicone rubber sheet to put between the bed and the glass. Hopefully that will help with that part.

                                  For the Z probe, I get the consistency errors when I have it set to a sensitivity of between 0.005mm and 0.011mm. It seems fine at 0.012mm. I have cleaned it as recommended with no change and have reached out to the vendor for assistance. Until then 0.012 will have to be sufficient. 🙂

                                  I will be running the recommended test print shortly, I'm just trying to figure out how to set Simplify3D so that each line is made up of two extrusion lines.

                                  Thanks,
                                  Tom

                                  TronXY X5S-500 (CoerXY)
                                  Duet 2 Ethernet v1.04
                                  Firmware Version: 2.02(RTOS) (2018-12-24b1)
                                  Web Interface Version: 1.22.6
                                  7" PanelDue
                                  E3D V6 Clone
                                  MOSFET's for hot end
                                  1000w Keenovo with SSR for heat bed
                                  dc42 Mini IR Sensor or BLTouch

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • TLeTourneauundefined
                                    TLeTourneau
                                    last edited by

                                    Latest run with the sensitivity set to 0.013mm, it completed at that setting.

                                    0_1542504131380_Bed_Level_002_mesh_11172018.PNG

                                    Thanks,
                                    Tom

                                    TronXY X5S-500 (CoerXY)
                                    Duet 2 Ethernet v1.04
                                    Firmware Version: 2.02(RTOS) (2018-12-24b1)
                                    Web Interface Version: 1.22.6
                                    7" PanelDue
                                    E3D V6 Clone
                                    MOSFET's for hot end
                                    1000w Keenovo with SSR for heat bed
                                    dc42 Mini IR Sensor or BLTouch

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • TLeTourneauundefined
                                      TLeTourneau @Phaedrux
                                      last edited by TLeTourneau

                                      So I ran the STL and the bed is all over the place. Beyond the sensitivity issues I'm having with the BLTouch my bed is definitely... wavey... I'll see how the borosilicate sheet with the silicone interface works. Although I see the benefit of changing the build platform I want to try the glass first.

                                      Thanks,
                                      Tom

                                      TronXY X5S-500 (CoerXY)
                                      Duet 2 Ethernet v1.04
                                      Firmware Version: 2.02(RTOS) (2018-12-24b1)
                                      Web Interface Version: 1.22.6
                                      7" PanelDue
                                      E3D V6 Clone
                                      MOSFET's for hot end
                                      1000w Keenovo with SSR for heat bed
                                      dc42 Mini IR Sensor or BLTouch

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Phaedruxundefined
                                        Phaedrux Moderator
                                        last edited by

                                        I'm not surprised it's wavy. I asked before, but maybe you missed it, have you tried only using 3 of the 6 bed fasteners? Is the bed plate stiff enough to allow for that? Those 6 bolts are torque the plate every which way. Only 3 points are needed to define a flat plane.

                                        With the bolt pattern like this

                                        1......2......3
                                        .
                                        .
                                        .
                                        4......5......6
                                        

                                        I would remove bolts 2, 4, and 6. Then use bolt 1 to set the reference height of Z0 with the nozzle, and then adjust bolts 3 and 5 to meet the nozzle.

                                        This may not be feasible if the plate flexes too much under its own weight, or if the plate itself is truly warped even when not under competing tension from the bolts.

                                        You can verify the repeatability of your probe by redoing the G30 S-1 test several times, manually resetting the probe to just touch the bed and resetting Z0 between each attempt. 0.013 is a lot worse variability than you should be getting with the BLtouch obviously, but I'd still like to know what actual trigger height values you get. Is there any pattern or consistency to it at all? If not, then possibly a bunk probe or something else mechanical going on that's interfering.

                                        Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                                        • TLeTourneauundefined
                                          TLeTourneau @Phaedrux
                                          last edited by

                                          @phaedrux said in Leveling the bed...:

                                          I'm not surprised it's wavy. I asked before, but maybe you missed it, have you tried only using 3 of the 6 bed fasteners? Is the bed plate stiff enough to allow for that? Those 6 bolts are torque the plate every which way. Only 3 points are needed to define a flat plane.

                                          With the bolt pattern like this

                                          1......2......3
                                          .
                                          .
                                          .
                                          4......5......6
                                          

                                          I would remove bolts 2, 4, and 6. Then use bolt 1 to set the reference height of Z0 with the nozzle, and then adjust bolts 3 and 5 to meet the nozzle.

                                          This may not be feasible if the plate flexes too much under its own weight, or if the plate itself is truly warped even when not under competing tension from the bolts.

                                          You can verify the repeatability of your probe by redoing the G30 S-1 test several times, manually resetting the probe to just touch the bed and resetting Z0 between each attempt. 0.013 is a lot worse variability than you should be getting with the BLtouch obviously, but I'd still like to know what actual trigger height values you get. Is there any pattern or consistency to it at all? If not, then possibly a bunk probe or something else mechanical going on that's interfering.

                                          I tried changing the screw layout but the bed had quit a bit of flex in it when I did that.

                                          I have no problem running the G30 S-1 repeatedly but I am not certain how to reset Z0 between each attempt. For some reason my search abilities seem to be lacking today...

                                          Also, although I am not certain, I think the Bltouch issue could be being influenced by a wiring issue, I noticed that when I moved some wires above my hot end the Bltouch went into an error state. I'm going to order some JST SM connectors to see if that helps. I've wanted to do quick connects on the hot end anyway so this may help.

                                          Thanks again for all of your help!

                                          Thanks,
                                          Tom

                                          TronXY X5S-500 (CoerXY)
                                          Duet 2 Ethernet v1.04
                                          Firmware Version: 2.02(RTOS) (2018-12-24b1)
                                          Web Interface Version: 1.22.6
                                          7" PanelDue
                                          E3D V6 Clone
                                          MOSFET's for hot end
                                          1000w Keenovo with SSR for heat bed
                                          dc42 Mini IR Sensor or BLTouch

                                          Phaedruxundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Phaedruxundefined
                                            Phaedrux Moderator @TLeTourneau
                                            last edited by

                                            @tletourneau to reset between the g30 s-1 you can move the nozzle down to touch the bed. If you can't get it low enough you can use G92 Z5 to trick the firmware ii bro thinking it's actually higher than it is, allowing you to move it down more. Then when it's just touching the bed, send G92 Z0 to tell the firmware you're at z0 and then do g30 s-1 again.

                                            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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