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    My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end

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    • brunofportoundefined
      brunofporto @deckingman
      last edited by

      @deckingman Amazing 😄 Will follow. There should be some pressure losses within the mixing chamber that I am curious to the effects!

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      • deckingmanundefined
        deckingman @mrehorstdmd
        last edited by

        @mrehorstdmd That's an impressive 3D print ☺

        Ian
        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
        https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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        • deckingmanundefined
          deckingman
          last edited by

          I've just posted Part 2 here if anyone is interested https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/2019/06/13/my-modular-multi-input-multi-material-mixing-hot-end-part-2/

          Ian
          https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
          https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

          T3P3Tonyundefined dc42undefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
          • T3P3Tonyundefined
            T3P3Tony administrators @deckingman
            last edited by

            @deckingman is the design really too compact to use e3d heatbreaks to save you quite a bit of effort?

            www.duet3d.com

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            • dc42undefined
              dc42 administrators @deckingman
              last edited by

              Nice write-up!

              I think E3D heat breaks would save you a lot of effort, if you can find a way to get round the problem that both ends are threaded. Maybe you can screw an aluminium sleeve onto the bottom thread. It could be worth asking E3D whether they can make you some heat breaks with one of the threads left off, since they may be interested in your research. The top end could screw directly into an aluminium block with a water cooling hole running through it, so no need for a water tank on the hot end at all.

              There are also other types of threaded heat breaks that can be screwed into both the heater block and the heatsink without needing to rotate either. For example, this one https://www.amazon.com/Bowden-Extruder-Throat-Heatbreak-3-00mm/dp/B07G99G5MB.

              Regarding the filament inlet spacing, what's the reason for putting the BMGs on the outside and the extruder stepper motors on the inside, instead of the reverse? Is it because you sometimes need to dismantle the BMGs to deal with filament issues?

              Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
              Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
              http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

              deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • T3P3Tonyundefined
                T3P3Tony administrators
                last edited by

                @deckingman to add to what @dc42 has said e3d have single end threaded heatsinks for use on the Chimera etc: see "whats in the box" here:
                https://e3d-online.com/chimera
                0_1560442926486_c76817c0-823f-4cf8-bd1e-fce0635ebbc8-image.png

                www.duet3d.com

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                • deckingmanundefined
                  deckingman @dc42
                  last edited by

                  @dc42 said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                  Regarding the filament inlet spacing, what's the reason for putting the BMGs on the outside and the extruder stepper motors on the inside, instead of the reverse? Is it because you sometimes need to dismantle the BMGs to deal with filament issues?

                  Mostly that but also fitting them in the first place. The screws go through the extruder body into the motor so if two extruders face each other, it's impossible. Having said that, maybe I could fix each set of 3 onto a plate, then somehow slot or bolt that plate into place. If I needed to dis-assemble one extruder, I'd have to remove the plate with all three but that wouldn't be the end of the world. It's only a partial solution to the problem though - there would still be a significant offset in X if not so much in Y, but if the inputs to the hot end were angled, it might work. I do have a bit of a concern about heat with those 6 motors being in such close proximity to each other, so having the motors on the outside would be advantageous in that respect.

                  Ref heat breaks, certainly "off the shelf" ones will save me a lot of heartache. As well as the E3D variant, I was very taken by what the inventor (if that's the word) of the Zatsit printer was doing. Also the Slice engineering Mosquito seemed to be a very efficient heat break design. If I could adapt my design to use either of those, and if either of those companies would supply me just the heat breaks, that's another option.

                  Lots to think about............

                  Ian
                  https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                  https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                  wilrikerundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Martin1454undefined
                    Martin1454
                    last edited by

                    Im really looking foward to see how it turns out 🙂 - The "maze mixing" design sounds interresting!

                    deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • deckingmanundefined
                      deckingman @Martin1454
                      last edited by

                      @martin1454 There are a few untested ideas that ultimately might not work. I've set the bar quite high trying to do multi-material as well as mixing so in the end, I might have to make some sort of compromise. But for now, I'll leave the bar where it is and keep on trying.

                      Ian
                      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                      https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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                      • fmaundefined
                        fma
                        last edited by

                        Did anyone aready try to inject ink in the melted zone to color the filament? It should be easier to mix CMYB inks rather than PLA...

                        Frédéric

                        deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • deckingmanundefined
                          deckingman @fma
                          last edited by

                          @fma said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                          Did anyone aready try to inject ink in the melted zone to color the filament? It should be easier to mix CMYB inks rather than PLA...

                          Kind of. IIRC, that was something that Adrian Bowyer or one of his students was looking into. If you look at the firmware, you'll see this https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M578_Fire_inkjet_bits. It seems to have died a death so maybe there were some problems that couldbn't be overcome.

                          Ian
                          https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                          https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                          Phaedruxundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • wilrikerundefined
                            wilriker @deckingman
                            last edited by

                            @deckingman said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                            Ref heat breaks [...] Also the Slice engineering Mosquito seemed to be a very efficient heat break design. If I could adapt my design to use either of those, and if either of those companies would supply me just the heat breaks, that's another option.

                            At least Slice Engineering sells the heatbreak as spare parts: https://www.sliceengineering.com/shop/heat-break

                            Manuel
                            Duet 3 6HC (v0.6) with RPi 4B on a custom Cartesian
                            with probably always latest firmware/DWC (incl. betas or self-compiled)
                            My Tool Collection

                            deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • deckingmanundefined
                              deckingman @wilriker
                              last edited by deckingman

                              @wilriker said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                              @deckingman said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                              Ref heat breaks [...] Also the Slice engineering Mosquito seemed to be a very efficient heat break design. If I could adapt my design to use either of those, and if either of those companies would supply me just the heat breaks, that's another option.

                              At least Slice Engineering sells the heatbreak as spare parts: https://www.sliceengineering.com/shop/heat-break

                              ahh, thanks for that.

                              Edit- £35 USD a pop and I need 6! That's an expensive experiment.

                              Ian
                              https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                              https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                              wilrikerundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • wilrikerundefined
                                wilriker @deckingman
                                last edited by wilriker

                                @deckingman I never said they where cheap. 😁

                                EDIT: But for test you could start with one.

                                Manuel
                                Duet 3 6HC (v0.6) with RPi 4B on a custom Cartesian
                                with probably always latest firmware/DWC (incl. betas or self-compiled)
                                My Tool Collection

                                deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • deckingmanundefined
                                  deckingman @wilriker
                                  last edited by

                                  @wilriker said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                                  @deckingman I never said they where cheap. 😁

                                  EDIT: But for test you could start with one.

                                  True. Or I could try making something similar. Looks like a copper heat sink, copper nut with (probably) Titanium tube swaged in between. hmmmm........

                                  Ian
                                  https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                  https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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                                  • Phaedruxundefined
                                    Phaedrux Moderator @deckingman
                                    last edited by

                                    @deckingman said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                                    @fma said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                                    Did anyone aready try to inject ink in the melted zone to color the filament? It should be easier to mix CMYB inks rather than PLA...

                                    Kind of. IIRC, that was something that Adrian Bowyer or one of his students was looking into. If you look at the firmware, you'll see this https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M578_Fire_inkjet_bits. It seems to have died a death so maybe there were some problems that couldbn't be overcome.

                                    I think DiVinci sells a proprietary printer that uses inkjet coloring.

                                    Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                                    • fmaundefined
                                      fma
                                      last edited by

                                      Mu suggestion was to inject the ink in the melted chamber, not on the printed part.

                                      But It may be difficult to maintain pressure, and it may mess up the print process...

                                      Frédéric

                                      deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • deckingmanundefined
                                        deckingman @fma
                                        last edited by

                                        @fma I don't know what the boiling point of printer ink is, but I'll bet it would likely just vaporise if you tried to inject it into the melt chamber at circa 200 deg C.

                                        Ian
                                        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                        https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                        3DOesteundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Phaedruxundefined
                                          Phaedrux Moderator
                                          last edited by

                                          You'd think some of the pigment or dye might survive. What do they use to color the filament itself?

                                          Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                          deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • deckingmanundefined
                                            deckingman @Phaedrux
                                            last edited by

                                            @phaedrux said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                                            You'd think some of the pigment or dye might survive. What do they use to color the filament itself?

                                            I believe coloured pellets go into the mix but I'm not sure.

                                            Ian
                                            https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                            https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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