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    Best lead screw - ball bearing mount system

    3D Printing General Chat
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    • claustro
      claustro last edited by

      Hi guys. I am a D- bot owner and I am going to switch to a 3 lead screw driven bed, I am wondering how to best way to mount lead screw , this is my options till now.

      Option 1
      Kp08 ball bearing - 8mm shaft - flexible coupler - lead screw

      Option 2
      petg made container - 8mm shaft - thrust bearing - ball bearing - flexible coupler - lead screw.
      In this case the thrust bearing upper part is inserted in the 8mm shaft while the balls and the lower part are free .
      0_1559200870265_20190530_065528 (Small).jpg

      0_1559200889085_20190530_065545 (Small).jpg

      What do you think?

      Andrea

      deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • deckingman
        deckingman @claustro last edited by

        @claustro Since you have asked, my vote would be option 3. Keep the thrust bearings but ditch the flexible couplings.

        Ian
        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
        https://www.youtube.com/c/deckingman/

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        • A Former User
          A Former User last edited by A Former User

          Or move the flex coupling to the other side of the bearing so the screw is supported but the connection to the motor allow for some misalignment. (Makes less sense for belt driven, and cheap KP08 blocks will most likely not have anything but plain ball bearings which doesn't like thrust. So yeah, option 3 ☝ )

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          • mrehorstdmd
            mrehorstdmd last edited by

            A flexible coupling is used to couple a motor shaft to a screw to allow some small misalignment between the motor and the screw. You don't need a flexible coupling between a pulley and a screw because the pulley can be mounted on the screw. If you use a flexible coupling between the pulley and screw, the belt tension will guarantee misalignment between the two because it will tilt the pulley (and move the end of the screw off axis) as much as the bearing and flexible coupler will allow.

            https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

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            • deckingman
              deckingman last edited by

              I'd just add that if there is any misalignment of the linear guides or, any other inaccuracy that can cause the Z axis to bind or stick a bit, then those couplings can wind up like a spring and absorb some of the linear movement. Then when there is enough tension, they can let go and give bit extra movement. The net result being uneven layer heights. Hence my personal opinion is to ditch them (or use a universal joint or Oldham coupling if you really have to use something).

              Ian
              https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
              https://www.youtube.com/c/deckingman/

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • Edgars Batna
                Edgars Batna last edited by Edgars Batna

                What @deckingman said. You need completely straight lead screws and they should be attached to the frame without potential for movement. If there's any chance the bed can move on its own without input from the motor, then so it will and layers will be uneven.

                I'd think that heavier beds are more prone to problems with flexible couplings. I tried various "self aligning" "hassle-free" couplings and they all were just randomizing the error.

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                • sinned6915
                  sinned6915 last edited by

                  There are a few printers that have similar motion systems. The one that comes to mind is Herculien and Eustathios. They use a pair of ball bearings to support the screw through a bearing holder and the pulley is grub screwed to the screw, and stop collar to keep the whole mess together. Bearing holder also supports the 10mm shaft. Same block for ball screws and TR8 screws.

                  https://i.imgur.com/BfKQMK1.png

                  Hope this screen grab makes sense. The plastic part bolts up to the underside of an 202o extrusion. The top and bottom bore accepts the 608zz bearings, and the pulley goes on the to and acts as a stop collar.

                  If you go here https://github.com/eclsnowman/Eustathios-Spider-V2

                  and navigate to the STL's, you can preview the part.

                  Eustathios-Spider-V2/STL Print FIles/Z_Axis_Leadscrew_Support_V2 (With Tensioner Config_hold downs and diaphragms).STL

                  The one thing I do not like about any of the designs is that the bearing in whatever form will have to support axial thrust loads. Deep groove ball bearings are crap for thrust loads. Proper design would be to use a pair of angular contact bearings that bear on a shoulder, but those are $$$

                  I added a ball thrust bearing and I think it made a difference. It is big enough to bear on the outer race and support the pulley above.

                  https://www.mcmaster.com/6655k54

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                  • Veti
                    Veti last edited by

                    what about sfu1204. you would not need the coupler.

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                    • DocTrucker
                      DocTrucker last edited by

                      Is the pulley for belt reduction or tying the three lead screws to one stepper?

                      If the former I would recommend worm reduction drive instead to reduce the chance of the elevator driving itself down under it's own weight. I was going to look into breaks for my belt reduction system but someone rightly pointed out worm reduction was potentially a better option.

                      Alive: 1 Ormerodish machines. 1 Custom Cantilever. 3 P3Steel. 1 Ciclopish scanner. In build: 1 P3Steel. Controllers: 2 Duet 2 , 2 D0.6, 1 D0.8.5, 1 D3 v0.5, 1 RAMPS/DRV8825, 1 Uno/Scan Card.

                      deckingman Phaedrux 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • deckingman
                        deckingman @DocTrucker last edited by

                        @doctrucker From other posts, I think he was gunning for a continuous belt/single motor (but I could be wrong).

                        The simplest way to prevent the weight of the bed from driving the screws is to use a finer lead screws with correspondingly shallower helix angles.

                        Worm drives are OK (ish) - the problem is eliminating backlash. If you have a sufficiently heavy bed and a very steep helix angle on the thread (very course lead), then gravity will take care of any backlash, but finer lead screws are all together a simpler and (IMO) more elegant solution.

                        Ian
                        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                        https://www.youtube.com/c/deckingman/

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                        • Phaedrux
                          Phaedrux Moderator @DocTrucker last edited by

                          @doctrucker said in Best lead screw - ball bearing mount system:

                          Is the pulley for belt reduction or tying the three lead screws to one stepper?

                          If the former I would recommend worm reduction drive instead to reduce the chance of the elevator driving itself down under it's own weight. I was going to look into breaks for my belt reduction system but someone rightly pointed out worm reduction was potentially a better option.

                          I think his lead screws are 2mm pitch/lead single start, so shouldn't have much auto rotation potential.

                          Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                          • Stephen6309
                            Stephen6309 last edited by

                            On my corexy using makerslide. I have only a 608 bearing and the pulley keeping the tr8-8 in place with gravity. One belt runs the two leadscrews from the stepper motor at 2:1. The bed will move down if I press hard down on it, otherwise it doesn't move.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • gnydick
                              gnydick last edited by

                              If your bed is mounted rigidly and can't move in X or Y, then the lead screw really doesn't have to be all that good. I use a floating lead screw nut because lead screws aren't perfect, but the linear rails that my bed is mounted to is precise. I've seen ZERO artifacts from the float.

                              deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • deckingman
                                deckingman @gnydick last edited by

                                @gnydick I'll second that. Lead screws should only provide lift, guides should only guide. I had a bit of an accident a few months ago and bent one of the lead screws. I've never got around to straightening or replacing it because it prints perfectly. The screw might wobble a bit, but one rotation still gives me exactly 1mm of linear movement.

                                Ian
                                https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                https://www.youtube.com/c/deckingman/

                                gnydick 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • gnydick
                                  gnydick @deckingman last edited by

                                  @deckingman I had the exact same thing happen!!

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • claustro
                                    claustro last edited by

                                    Thank you for all your suggestions.
                                    This is what come out .
                                    I moved the thrust bearing on the top so it can discharge the weight of the bed on the plastic structure.
                                    Below I installed the ball bearing that doesn't have to manage weight.
                                    I am still waiting for the rigid coupler.

                                    what do you think
                                    ?
                                    2_1559396358318_20190601_151644 (Piccola).jpg 1_1559396358318_20190601_151656 (Piccola).jpg 0_1559396358317_20190601_151713 (Piccola).jpg

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                                    • Phaedrux
                                      Phaedrux Moderator last edited by

                                      Looks good to me.

                                      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                                      • deckingman
                                        deckingman last edited by

                                        That'll do.

                                        Ian
                                        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                        https://www.youtube.com/c/deckingman/

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                                        • mrehorstdmd
                                          mrehorstdmd last edited by mrehorstdmd

                                          With this sort of thing I tend to think about what might go wrong and what I can do to prevent it. I try to only have to do things once. Making things as close to ideal (in the relevant properties) as possible reduces the things you have to consider if something goes wrong. If I use a plastic part in an assembly I tend to make it bulky to ensure rigidity, so I wouldn't use thin plastic flanges, even with side-webbing, to support a relatively large weight or something that will be loaded by a drive belt.

                                          At the very least I would thicken the flange that bolts to the top side of the t-slot, maybe to the point of making it continuous with the body of the part. I'm not saying that your flange design won't be adequate, but if it isn't, you'll be redesigning and reprinting.

                                          In the end, you should worry less about the plastic flexing and more about the t-slot it's bolted to twisting.

                                          https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

                                          claustro 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • claustro
                                            claustro @mrehorstdmd last edited by

                                            @mrehorstdmd
                                            is something like this enough "bulky"?

                                            0_1559405728244_lead screw mount 2 v2.jpg

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                                            • mrehorstdmd
                                              mrehorstdmd last edited by

                                              Yes, I'd do something like that. I'd also use modifier meshes to increase the fill density around the mounting bolt holes.

                                              https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

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                                              • Veti
                                                Veti last edited by

                                                that reminds me there was a video by alex kenis about this
                                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z7mZVvPlc8

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                                                • claustro
                                                  claustro last edited by

                                                  While I am trying to fix the squareness of the frame I finalized!the Z axis belt system
                                                  This is what it came out.
                                                  I tried to make the belt running as much as possible around the pulley with this setup all the pulley has 180 degree belt contact.
                                                  The 2 tensioners are temporary , I am going to print a support for it
                                                  Any suggestion will be appreciated.
                                                  Thank you
                                                  Andrea
                                                  0_1559588633233_20190603_173238 (Medium).jpg

                                                  deckingman gnydick 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                  • deckingman
                                                    deckingman @claustro last edited by

                                                    @claustro How come those front two lead screws are set so far back from the front of the frame?

                                                    Ian
                                                    https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                                    https://www.youtube.com/c/deckingman/

                                                    claustro 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • claustro
                                                      claustro @deckingman last edited by

                                                      @deckingman this is only a temporary disposition , at the end the 2 front lead screw will be as far as possible from the back one

                                                      deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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