Hemera settings for Reprap Firmware?



  • A little bit of a rant. I really wish manufacturers would start including the settings for these things. I mean something specifically from the manufacturer. At least as a starting point. Instead, we're left to figure out what works by trial and error. If you ask 10 different people, you'll get 10 different answers.

    The only concrete information we have is a starting point for steps per mm. 409 which is to be fine tuned. Ok, I get that.

    Luckily they did include the motor specs which list the current, that's easy enough.

    They even list the maximum volumetric extrusion which could give you the maximum print speed dending on nozzle size.

    That's all?!?

    Where's the rest? I'm talking about things like the maximum instantaneous speed change (jerk), extruder acceleration.

    You know they spec'd the motor they did for a reason. You know they sized the gears and hobb for a reason. You know they performed a multitude of calculations and tests. These settings should be available as at least a starting point.

    Rant over, does anyone have a good starting point for these settings for the Hemera?



  • i thought they outsourced it to the community, but I haven't looked into it yet. my local dealer pushed their delivery back pending some issues early on, suppose its nice to potentially avoid dealing with returns, but I was ready for that thing last year:P



  • @bearer said in Hemera settings for Reprap Firmware?:

    i thought they outsourced it to the community

    That's my point though, you know they're part of the community. You know they've performed tests, tweaked it and tuned it. They've already gotten fantastic prints out of it to show off at trade shows. They should come up with the settings that have worked best for them and publish them. At least those who just want it to work would have a starting point.



  • I am printing fine with 409 steps, 800mA and assume v6 like volumetric limits (because it's the same heater block so it should be equivalent). Retractions are 1mm at 35mm/sec (conservative middle-of-the-road setting for all metal setups). I am currently using neither firmware retraction nor pressure advance. This has worked out fine for me so far.

    My printer is currently turned off; I'll get jerk and acceleration tomorrow.



  • This post is deleted!


  • Extruder retraction speed, retraction distance, jerk and acceleration are not extruder-specific, they depend on a lot of other things like print temperature, polymer, motor current, etc.

    This is also why if you ask the community, answers will vary.

    I know it feels good to rage at manufacturers but may be worth pausing to consider whether there’s a reason things are the way they are?

    And then there’s the whole aspect of ranting about one mfgr’s product on another mfgr’s message board - how are e3d engineers expected to get this feedback?



  • @elmoret said in Hemera settings for Reprap Firmware?:

    And then there’s the whole aspect of ranting about one mfgr’s product on another mfgr’s message board - how are e3d engineers expected to get this feedback?

    Thats true, I'll wait for their response.

    @elmoret said in Hemera settings for Reprap Firmware?:

    Extruder retraction speed, retraction distance, jerk and acceleration are not extruder-specific, they depend on a lot of other things like print temperature, polymer, motor current, etc.

    I know it feels good to rage at manufacturers but may be worth pausing to consider whether there’s a reason things are the way they are?

    I'm not raging, just posing the question.

    I don't believe that to be true, those settings are most definitely extruder specific. Well, motor specific. We're talking about the motor's ability to ramp up to a certain speed at a certain speed against certain forces.

    All things tunable to that motor, and should be fairly consistent. It could even be calculated. I'm not concerned with that level of accuracy. Just the details from their internal empirical testing that says here are the settings we've found to work best across a range of materials. There's still room to tune it further if you like. For those who want to print and not have to tune and tweak.



  • @blt3dp said in Hemera settings for Reprap Firmware?:

    For those who want to print and not have to tune and tweak

    while I can sort of understand where you're coming from, those (should) buy a ready to go printer and not parts and kits tbh.

    I have two kits and one ready to print machine from Tiertime. I half heartedly tried putting a Duet in the Tiertime machine to break free from their limited slicer and silly hardware. However it took too long to get the print quality on par with their stuff, so I put their stuff back in ... because I just hit print and go get the part when its done without thinking twice or hovering over the first layer etc. I'm hoping the Hemera turns my I3 rework into an equalliy reliable machine so I can get back to installing the Duet in the Tiertime machine while having another reliable printer. I have very little praise for Tiertime, but after some replacement parts its a damn reliable machine.



  • “We're talking about the motor's ability to ramp up to a certain speed at a certain speed against certain forces.”

    But those forces are in part, a function of the things I mentioned. Thick, sticky materials will exert differing forces than thin, less-sticky materials. Flexibles can have more accel and jerk because they have springiness. Yes, things like rotor inertia matter too, it are only part of the equation. And all of it depends on available motor torque, which is a function of not just motor current, but motor voltage and stepper driver architecture.

    I think if you asked for ballparks, they’d give them to you, and I think if you asked for ballparks to be posted, they’d do it. They already do for steps/mm, for example (a function only of extruder design, microstepping, filament, and idler tension)



  • Just on the subject of extruder jerk, it's never used. The instantaneous speed change threshold, to give it a more meaningful name, is used in instances where there is a change of direction other than when starting a move from zero speed and not at the start and end of a move. During print moves, where the X or Y axis may change direction, the extruder continues to move in the same direction so extruder jerk does not get applied. During retractions, the extruder starts and ends at zero speed, so again extruder jerk is never applied.
    Regarding extruder acceleration, for any print move, the acceleration is always the lowest of X, Y or E. So extruder acceleration during print moves will only apply if it is set so low that it slows down the X and Y axes acceleration. The only time that extruder acceleration is used is for extruder only moves ( retractions).
    For those reasons, I set my extruder "jerk" and acceleration to silly high values.
    There is one caveat to all of that in that there is an interaction with pressure advance which I'm not entirely sure about, except to say that again, low values are detrimental but higher values are not.


  • administrators

    There are two situations in which extruder jerk is used:

    • If the slicer isn't generating a constant linear extrusion rate while printing a curve. I have seen this in GCode. It's probably a bug or rounding error.
    • When using pressure advance, at the start and end of acceleration and deceleration segments the extruder speed changes instantaneously. If the required speed change is higher than the configured jerk then the acceleration will be reduced to bring the jerk down to the limit.


  • @deckingman said in Hemera settings for Reprap Firmware?:

    For those reasons, I set my extruder "jerk" and acceleration to silly high values.

    @dc42 said in Hemera settings for Reprap Firmware?:

    There are two situations in which extruder jerk is used:

    • If the slicer isn't generating a constant linear extrusion rate while printing a curve. I have seen this in GCode. It's probably a bug or rounding error.
    • When using pressure advance, at the start and end of acceleration and deceleration segments the extruder speed changes instantaneously. If the required speed change is higher than the configured jerk then the acceleration will be reduced to bring the jerk down to the limit.

    Would it be a fair assumption to say that setting extruder acceleration to be equal to or slightly higher than XYZ accelerations would be the way to go? Same for jerk?



  • If it helps this is mine, i must say thou i have not tuned it and these are the settings i used on the Titan Aero it replaced. prints fantastic ..

    M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z400.00 E392.67 ; Set steps per mm
    M566 X600 Y600 Z20 E8000 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X60000 Y60000 Z200 E20000 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X500 Y500 Z100 E6000 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M204 P1000 T4000 ; Set printing and travel accelerations
    M906 X760 Y760 Z760 E700 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout
    M572 D0 S0.001 ; Presure Advanced
    M207 S0.75 R-0.000 F3200 T3200 Z0.0 ; Firmware Retraction



  • @blt3dp said in Hemera settings for Reprap Firmware?:

    Would it be a fair assumption to say that setting extruder acceleration to be equal to or slightly higher than XYZ accelerations would be the way to go? Same for jerk?

    Not in my opinion - set it much higher for the reasons given above, and you'll get a much snappier retraction than if you used accelerations closer to XY carriage values. Everyone will have their own preferences but I use 3600mm/min "jerk" and 6000 mm/s^2 for accelerations with my BMG extruders.



  • So still silence from e3d for a bit of help with their premium priced product.
    I wish I could return it and get my money back!.
    Cost like an ender with zero support and print worse then a stocked one..
    I had good prints with my old v6 but now I spent over two Month of twiks and fights to get normal prints but far from good as I had with the v6, the only stupid reason I am not tearing it from my printer and throwing it to the garbage is the fact it cost so much and I really feel like idiot that believed e3d product support is a level above chinese knockouts, my bad.

    I mainly struggle with jerk and acceleration, not even talking about linear advance that even on 0.001 ruined every print..
    It would be super helpful if some one can post hes/her working profile for cura or simplify3d that works for him and on the way the setting for the jerk and acceleration that he/her uses.

    I am using duet 2 and hemera with hardened steel if it matters.


  • administrators

    @Eran898 said in Hemera settings for Reprap Firmware?:

    So still silence from e3d for a bit of help with their premium priced product.
    I wish I could return it and get my money back!.
    Cost like an ender with zero support and print worse then a stocked one..
    I had good prints with my old v6 but now I spent over two Month of twiks and fights to get normal prints but far from good as I had with the v6, the only stupid reason I am not tearing it from my printer and throwing it to the garbage is the fact it cost so much and I really feel like idiot that believed e3d product support is a level above chinese knockouts, my bad.

    I mainly struggle with jerk and acceleration, not even talking about linear advance that even on 0.001 ruined every print..
    It would be super helpful if some one can post hes/her working profile for cura or simplify3d that works for him and on the way the setting for the jerk and acceleration that he/her uses.

    I am using duet 2 and hemera with hardened steel if it matters.

    Neither you nor @blt3dp have posted your config.g file or slicer settings. So we have no idea what settings you are using - which makes it very hard to offer you advice.



  • I went over to the e3d forums for help. Not much there either. I ended up piecing together what I felt was the consensus among all the different settings. I came up with this.

    ; Configuration file for Duet 3 (firmware version 3)
    ; executed by the firmware on start-up
    ;
    ; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2.1.4 on Tue Dec 24 2019 21:00:59 GMT-0800 (PST)
    
    ; General preferences
    G90                                                       ; send absolute coordinates...
    M83                                                       ; ...but relative extruder moves
    M550 P"Duet 3"                                            ; set printer name
    M665 R179.423 L360.260 B151.500 H367.085                  ; Set delta radius, diagonal rod length, printable radius and homed height
    M666 X0 Y0 Z0                                             ; put your endstop adjustments here, or let auto calibration find them
    
    ; Drives
    M569 P0.0 S1                                              ; physical drive 0.0 goes forwards
    M569 P0.1 S1                                              ; physical drive 0.1 goes forwards
    M569 P0.2 S1                                              ; physical drive 0.2 goes forwards
    M569 P0.3 S1                                              ; physical drive 0.3 goes forwards
    M584 X0.0 Y0.1 Z0.2 E0.3                                  ; set drive mapping
    M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1                                   ; configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X200.00 Y200.00 Z200.00 E409.00                       ; set steps per mm
    M566 X300.00 Y300.00 Z300.00 E3000.00                     ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X7200.00 Y7200.00 Z7200.00 E7200.00                  ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X1000.00 Y1000.00 Z1000.00 E6000.00                  ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M906 X1700 Y1700 Z1700 E1100 I30                          ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S30                                                   ; Set idle timeout
    
    ; Axis Limits
    M208 Z0 S1                                                ; set minimum Z
    
    ; Endstops
    M574 X2 S1 P"io1.in"                                      ; configure active-high endstop for high end on X via pin io1.in
    M574 Y2 S1 P"io2.in"                                      ; configure active-high endstop for high end on Y via pin io2.in
    M574 Z2 S1 P"io3.in"                                      ; configure active-high endstop for high end on Z via pin io3.in
    
    ; Z-Probe
    M558 P5 R0.4 C"io4.in+io4.out" H5 F300 T1800              ; set Z probe type to effector and the dive height + speeds
    G31 P100 X0 Y0 Z-0.1                                      ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
    M557 R110 S20                                             ; define mesh grid
    
    ; Heaters
    M308 S0 P"temp0" Y"thermistor" T100000 B3590 R2200        ; configure sensor 0 as thermistor on pin temp0
    M950 H0 C"out0" T0 Q10                                    ; create bed heater output on out0 and map it to sensor 0
    M143 H0 S130                                              ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 130C
    M307 H0 A243.9 C1172.1 D12.5 B0 S1.00                     ; disable bang-bang mode for the bed heater and set PWM limit
    M140 H0                                                   ; map heated bed to heater 0
    M308 S1 P"temp1" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4725 C7.060000e-8 ; configure sensor 1 as thermistor on pin temp1
    M950 H1 C"out1" T1                                        ; create nozzle heater output on out1 and map it to sensor 1
    M143 H1 S290                                              ; set temperature limit for heater 1 to 290C
    M307 H1 A322.9 C214.5 D4.9 B0 S1.00                       ; disable bang-bang mode for the nozzle heater and set PWM limit
    
    ; Fans
    M950 F0 C"out7" Q500                                      ; create fan 0 on pin out7 and set its frequency
    M106 P0 S0 H-1                                            ; set fan 0 value. Thermostatic control is turned off
    M950 F1 C"out8"                                           ; create fan 1 on pin out8 and set its frequency
    M106 P1 S1 H1 T45                                         ; set fan 1 value. Thermostatic control is turned on
    M950 F2 C"out9" Q500                                      ; create fan 2 on pin out9 and set its frequency
    M106 P2 C"LEDs" S0 H-1                                    ; set fan 2 name and value. Thermostatic control is turned off
    
    ; Tools
    M563 P0 D0 H1 F0                                          ; define tool 0
    G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0                                           ; set tool 0 axis offsets
    G10 P0 R0 S0                                              ; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C
    
    ; Custom settings
    M207 S3.5 F2400 Z0.40                                     ; Set firmware retraction length, speed and z-lift
    M572 D0 S0.0                                              ; Set pressure advance
    

    The retraction could be a little more, I have a 650mm bowden, but barely any stringing. Or i could possibly tune pressure advance instead.

    PS. @dc42 if you happen to notice anything glaring wrong, lemme know.



  • @dc42 I don't know how my config.g file or slicer profile can help you give me acceleration and jerk settings for e3d hemera motor since I didn't built it and it's not unique to my rig.
    But sure if it helps I will give you anything you want haha, my config.g

    The; Configuration file for Duet WiFi (firmware version 1.21)
    ; executed by the firmware on start-up
    ;
    ; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool on Tue Oct 09 2018 13:27:56 GMT+0300 ())
    
    ; General preferences
    M80 						   ; Turns on the ATX power supply
    G90                                                ; Send absolute coordinates...
    M83                                                ; ...but relative extruder moves
    
    M667 S1                                            ; Select CoreXY mode
    
    ; Network
    M550 Pblv                                ; Set machine name
    M552 S1                                            ; Enable network
    M587 S"aaaa" P"bbbbbbbb"                     ; Configure access point. You can delete this line once connected
    M586 P0 S1                                         ; Enable HTTP
    M586 P1 S0                                         ; Disable FTP
    M586 P2 S0                                         ; Disable Telnet
    
    ; Drives
    M569 P0 S0                                         ; Drive 0 goes backwards : its was S1 -X
    M569 P1 S0                                         ; Drive 1 goes backwards : its was S1 -Y
    M569 P2 S1                                         ; Drive 2 goes forwards -Z
    M569 P3 S1                                         ; Drive 3 goes backwards WAS 0 -E0
    M569 P4 S1 					   ; Drive 4 in reverse. disable for only one extruder - E1
    
    M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16:16 I1                            ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X200 Y200 Z400 E392.917:392.917                       ; Set steps per mm for Bondtech. with titan extruder it was: E413.49
    M566 X600 Y600 Z24 E300:300                            ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (Jerk) (mm/min) was:X720 Y720 Z12 E300  
    M203 X20000 Y20000 Z600 E2000:2000                      ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min) was:X20000 Y20000 Z600 E2000
    M201 X3000 Y3000 Z100 E5000:5000			   ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2) was:X1000 Y1000 Z100 E5000
    M906 X1600 Y1600 Z1600 E1100:600 I30                   ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S30                                            ; Set idle timeout
    
     ;Pressure advance
     ;M572 D0 S0.001					   ; enable Pressure advance
    
    ; Axis Limits
    M208 X-23 Y0 Z0 S1                                 ; Set axis minima
    M208 X320 Y321 Z350 S0                             ; Set axis maxima
    
    ; Endstops
    M574 X1 Y2 S1                                      ; Set active high endstops edit: Y endstop is high(max).
    
    ; Filament sensor
    M591 D0 P1 C3 S1				   ; Set Filament sensor Simple type (High) for extruder drive 0, connected to endstop input 3 (E0)
    
    ; Z-Probe
    M574 Z1 S2                                         ; Set endstops controlled by probe Heater 1 model
    M307 H1 A396.4 C120.0 D4.6 V24.2 B0		   ; Set PID for hotend values
    M307 H0 A140.4 C741.1 D1.3 V24.2 B0		   ; Set PID for heated bed values
    M558 P1	T9000 R0.5				   ; Set Z probe type mini ir sensor WAS:M558 P1 H5 F200 T9000 I0 R0.5
    G31 P500 X-2 Y-16.4 Z1.910                   ; Set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height.G31 P500 X-2 Y-16.4 Z2.135 X40 Y60M557 X30:270 Y30:270 S80			   ; Define mesh grid
    
    ; Heaters
    M305 P0 T100000 B3950 C0 R4700                     ; Set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 0
    M143 H0 S100                                       ; Set temperature limit for heater 0 to 100C
    M305 P1 T100000 B3950 C0 R4700                     ; Set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 1
    M143 H1 S280                                       ; Set temperature limit for heater 1 to 260C
    
    ; Fans
    M106 P0 S0 I0 F500 H-1                             ; Set fan 0 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
    M106 P1 S1 I0 F500 H1 T35                          ; Set fan 1 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned on
    M106 P2 S1 I0 F500 H1 T35                          ; Set fan 2 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned on
    
    ; Tools
    M563 P0 D0 H1                                      ; Define tool 0
    M563 P1 D1 H1                                      ; Define tool 0
    G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0                                    ; Set tool 0 axis offsets
    G10 P1 X0 Y0 Z0                                    ; Set tool 0 axis offsets
    G10 P0 R0 S0                                       ; Set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C
    G10 P1 R0 S0                                       ; Set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C
    
    ; Automatic power saving
    M911 S21 R22 P"M913 X0 Y0 G91 M83 G1 Z3 E-5 F1000" ; Set voltage thresholds and actions to run on power loss
    
    ; Custom settings are not configured
    M564 H0                                   	   ; Let the Jog buttons work : added to allow jog buttons
    

    I am not at home so I will post my slicer pictures later today, all I can say for now is retraction 0.6 at 50mms I print on 70mms layer height 0.2-0.12 on 0.4 hardened steel nozzle
    Extrusion multiply 0.9 on extrusion width 0.4, it print exactly 0.4 walls.
    Fan is 5015 and I set it to 15% on second layer and 50% from 4th
    I use ir probe and spring steel pei surface ohh and of course hemera direct

    If you want to look on more files just ask and i will upload asap.
    It's important to say that the printer prints but the quality not so good, mostly on small details,and infill looks bad.


  • administrators

    @blt3dp said in Hemera settings for Reprap Firmware?:

    The retraction could be a little more, I have a 650mm bowden, but barely any stringing. Or i could possibly tune pressure advance instead.

    Ah, so it's a bowden Hemera. That makes a huge difference. I would imaging the settings for a Titan or Bondtech extruder with a similar bowden tube length would work well, because all 3 of those extruders have about 3:1 gearing. These are the settings I use on my delta, which has a 600mm Bowden tube and Bondtech extruder:

    M201 X3000 Y3000 Z3000 E1000		; Accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M203 X15000 Y15000 Z15000 E3600		; Maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M566 X600 Y600 Z600 E600		; Maximum instant speed changes
    M572 D0 S0.2				; pressure advance
    

    Higher pressure advance might be better, I haven't optimised it. I have retraction set to 6mm. Extruder acceleration could probably be increased.

    HTH David


  • Moderator

    @Eran898 said in Hemera settings for Reprap Firmware?:

    M587 S"aaaa" P"bbbbbbbb" ; Configure access point. You can delete this line once connected

    You should delete this line from your config.g, as it gets written to the Wifi module each time config.g is run. Not ideal for flash memory! See: https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M587_Add_WiFi_host_network_to_remembered_list_or_list_remembered_networks

    Important! Do not use M587 within config.g. As well as being a security hazard, writing the access point parameters to WiFi chip every time you start the Duet may eventually wear out the flash memory. Also, the wifi module does not get enabled until the end of running config.g. It is better to use a macro to send M587 (source: https://forum.duet3d.com/post/42798)

    Ian



  • @droftarts said in Hemera settings for Reprap Firmware?:

    @Eran898 said in Hemera settings for Reprap Firmware?:

    M587 S"aaaa" P"bbbbbbbb" ; Configure access point. You can delete this line once connected

    You should delete this line from your config.g, as it gets written to the Wifi module each time config.g is run. Not ideal for flash memory! See: https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M587_Add_WiFi_host_network_to_remembered_list_or_list_remembered_networks

    Important! Do not use M587 within config.g. As well as being a security hazard, writing the access point parameters to WiFi chip every time you start the Duet may eventually wear out the flash memory. Also, the wifi module does not get enabled until the end of running config.g. It is better to use a macro to send M587 (source: https://forum.duet3d.com/post/42798)

    Ian

    Thanks for the info didn't knew that!.
    So no one using the hemera on direct? haha.
    Please if someone using it would be great just to see what numbers you are using


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