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    Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion

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    • Murloc992undefined
      Murloc992 @droftarts
      last edited by

      @droftarts said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

      How about the other way around; maybe you have the idler overtightened and the BMG gears are meshing badly because they’re too tight?!

      Ian

      I have tried the "correct tension" method: so that it just grabs with minimal tension and ofc overtightening, no difference. BUT I have an idea. Let me check.

      "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

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      • Murloc992undefined
        Murloc992
        last edited by

        Nevermind.. I tried limiting the side-to-side play bondtech idler has, even played with currents throughout the layers and nothing seemed to give any effect. I went from original 1200mA, to 1400, 1600, then tried going lower, 1000, 800, 600, 400. It never skipped, the print looks identical. The print is a very slow single wall cube print. 15 minutes for 25x25x25mm.

        "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

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        • Murloc992undefined
          Murloc992
          last edited by

          Fun fact: if I extrude using the web control at 5mm/s, there's no pulsing. If I extrude at 15mm/s (no skipping till 4 in a row, must be heat related) it's extremely smooth. If I extrude at 1mm/s, it pulses INSANELY.

          "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

          droftartsundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • NitroFreakundefined
            NitroFreak
            last edited by

            thats because of the firmware minimum speed of 1.5mm/s iirc?

            droftartsundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • droftartsundefined
              droftarts administrators @NitroFreak
              last edited by

              @NitroFreak said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

              thats because of the firmware minimum speed of 1.5mm/s iirc?

              It’s 0.5mm/s. from Gcode dictionary in G1 definition:

              For CNC users especially: RRF has a default minimum movement speed of 0.5mm/sec. In firmware 2.03 and later this can be changed using the I ('i') parameter of the M203 command.

              Ian

              Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

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              • droftartsundefined
                droftarts administrators @Murloc992
                last edited by

                @Murloc992 not sure when Back EMF kicks in? See https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Choosing_and_connecting_stepper_motors#Section_Back_emf_due_to_rotation

                Ian

                Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                Murloc992undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • Murloc992undefined
                  Murloc992 @droftarts
                  last edited by

                  @droftarts said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                  @Murloc992 not sure when Back EMF kicks in? See https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Choosing_and_connecting_stepper_motors#Section_Back_emf_due_to_rotation

                  Ian

                  Not sure...

                  Would toying around with CHOPCONF values help here?

                  "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                  Vetiundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Vetiundefined
                    Veti @Murloc992
                    last edited by

                    @Murloc992 said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                    Would toying around with CHOPCONF values help here?

                    no but increasing voltage helps

                    Murloc992undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Murloc992undefined
                      Murloc992 @Veti
                      last edited by

                      @Veti said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                      @Murloc992 said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                      Would toying around with CHOPCONF values help here?

                      no but increasing voltage helps

                      I literally spent a ton of money on the upgrade.. Just thinking about spending even more on a 24V setup hurts me inside. 😞

                      "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                      Vetiundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • Vetiundefined
                        Veti @Murloc992
                        last edited by

                        @Murloc992
                        i dont think you are gonna reach any speed where the emf becomes a problem with the extruder.

                        Murloc992undefined NitroFreakundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Murloc992undefined
                          Murloc992 @Veti
                          last edited by

                          @Veti

                          Then what do you mean

                          @Veti said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                          no but increasing voltage helps

                          Aren't you talking about the main PSU? Or Stepper voltage?

                          "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

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                          • NitroFreakundefined
                            NitroFreak @Veti
                            last edited by

                            @Veti said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                            @Murloc992
                            i dont think you are gonna reach any speed where the emf becomes a problem with the extruder.

                            Thats really the only option left to test why the 0.9 steppers produce that pattern.
                            24v PSU are not that expensive. i got my meanwell‘s used on ebay for 24€

                            Murloc992undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • Murloc992undefined
                              Murloc992 @NitroFreak
                              last edited by

                              @NitroFreak said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                              @Veti said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                              @Murloc992
                              i dont think you are gonna reach any speed where the emf becomes a problem with the extruder.

                              Thats really the only option left to test why the 0.9 steppers produce that pattern.
                              24v PSU are not that expensive. i got my meanwell‘s used on ebay for 24€

                              Yeah, I mean for testing the stepper only. Because I am crap out of luck for other components. 😅

                              "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                              droftartsundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • NitroFreakundefined
                                NitroFreak
                                last edited by

                                24v heater cartridges are not that expensive and 24v silicone heated pads are also not that expensive. the 12v fans can be driven by the 24v duet by means of a buck converter

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                                • droftartsundefined
                                  droftarts administrators @Murloc992
                                  last edited by

                                  @Murloc992 As 1mm/s (I guess that’s X/Y federate?) seems to be the problem, and you’re unlikely to print at that speed normally, what happens if you print the box but set the speed multiplier to 200% or higher?

                                  Ian

                                  Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                                  Murloc992undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • droftartsundefined
                                    droftarts administrators
                                    last edited by

                                    Thinking about it, what you might be seeing is the effect of running the extruder so slowly, you’re seeing individual steps, and the motor has to stop between each step, which causes a lack of continuity of movement, hence the stuttering. Try setting extruder to x256 microstepping, or turn off interpolation.

                                    Ian

                                    Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                                    Murloc992undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • Murloc992undefined
                                      Murloc992
                                      last edited by

                                      So I took some oscilloscope readings at same speeds, just different stepper currents (old one at 800mA, new one at 1200mA)

                                      Old motor retracting at 30mm/s:
                                      2019-12-21 21.46.43.jpg

                                      New motor retracting at 30mm/s:
                                      2019-12-21 21.48.24.jpg
                                      (seems very noisy and sharp?)

                                      Old motor retracting at 5mm/s:
                                      2019-12-21 21.51.15.jpg

                                      New motor retracting at 5mm/s:
                                      2019-12-21 21.52.06.jpg

                                      "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

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                                      • Murloc992undefined
                                        Murloc992 @droftarts
                                        last edited by

                                        @droftarts 1mm/s was my test extrusion rate, not printing. 🙂

                                        "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

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                                        • Murloc992undefined
                                          Murloc992 @droftarts
                                          last edited by

                                          @droftarts said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                                          Try setting extruder to x256 microstepping, or turn off interpolation.

                                          Nothing.

                                          @droftarts said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                                          what happens if you print the box but set the speed multiplier to 200% or higher?

                                          I will try that in the morning. 😄

                                          "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

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                                          • Murloc992undefined
                                            Murloc992
                                            last edited by

                                            @T3P3Tony Maybe you looked at my oscilloscope phase readings? Does this depict shortage of driver voltage?

                                            "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

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