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Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion

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Tuning and tweaking
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  • undefined
    Murloc992
    last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 15:54

    Fun fact: if I extrude using the web control at 5mm/s, there's no pulsing. If I extrude at 15mm/s (no skipping till 4 in a row, must be heat related) it's extremely smooth. If I extrude at 1mm/s, it pulses INSANELY.

    "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 21 Dec 2019, 16:56 Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      NitroFreak
      last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 16:32

      thats because of the firmware minimum speed of 1.5mm/s iirc?

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 21 Dec 2019, 16:55 Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        droftarts administrators @NitroFreak
        last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 16:55

        @NitroFreak said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

        thats because of the firmware minimum speed of 1.5mm/s iirc?

        It’s 0.5mm/s. from Gcode dictionary in G1 definition:

        For CNC users especially: RRF has a default minimum movement speed of 0.5mm/sec. In firmware 2.03 and later this can be changed using the I ('i') parameter of the M203 command.

        Ian

        Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          droftarts administrators @Murloc992
          last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 16:56

          @Murloc992 not sure when Back EMF kicks in? See https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Choosing_and_connecting_stepper_motors#Section_Back_emf_due_to_rotation

          Ian

          Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 21 Dec 2019, 17:59 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            Murloc992 @droftarts
            last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 17:59

            @droftarts said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

            @Murloc992 not sure when Back EMF kicks in? See https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Choosing_and_connecting_stepper_motors#Section_Back_emf_due_to_rotation

            Ian

            Not sure...

            Would toying around with CHOPCONF values help here?

            "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 21 Dec 2019, 18:00 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              Veti @Murloc992
              last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 18:00

              @Murloc992 said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

              Would toying around with CHOPCONF values help here?

              no but increasing voltage helps

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 21 Dec 2019, 18:07 Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                Murloc992 @Veti
                last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 18:07

                @Veti said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                @Murloc992 said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                Would toying around with CHOPCONF values help here?

                no but increasing voltage helps

                I literally spent a ton of money on the upgrade.. Just thinking about spending even more on a 24V setup hurts me inside. 😞

                "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 21 Dec 2019, 18:10 Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  Veti @Murloc992
                  last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 18:10

                  @Murloc992
                  i dont think you are gonna reach any speed where the emf becomes a problem with the extruder.

                  undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 21 Dec 2019, 18:41 Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    Murloc992 @Veti
                    last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 18:41

                    @Veti

                    Then what do you mean

                    @Veti said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                    no but increasing voltage helps

                    Aren't you talking about the main PSU? Or Stepper voltage?

                    "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      NitroFreak @Veti
                      last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 18:53

                      @Veti said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                      @Murloc992
                      i dont think you are gonna reach any speed where the emf becomes a problem with the extruder.

                      Thats really the only option left to test why the 0.9 steppers produce that pattern.
                      24v PSU are not that expensive. i got my meanwell‘s used on ebay for 24€

                      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 21 Dec 2019, 19:06 Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        Murloc992 @NitroFreak
                        last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 19:06

                        @NitroFreak said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                        @Veti said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                        @Murloc992
                        i dont think you are gonna reach any speed where the emf becomes a problem with the extruder.

                        Thats really the only option left to test why the 0.9 steppers produce that pattern.
                        24v PSU are not that expensive. i got my meanwell‘s used on ebay for 24€

                        Yeah, I mean for testing the stepper only. Because I am crap out of luck for other components. 😅

                        "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 21 Dec 2019, 20:56 Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          NitroFreak
                          last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 19:12

                          24v heater cartridges are not that expensive and 24v silicone heated pads are also not that expensive. the 12v fans can be driven by the 24v duet by means of a buck converter

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            droftarts administrators @Murloc992
                            last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 20:56

                            @Murloc992 As 1mm/s (I guess that’s X/Y federate?) seems to be the problem, and you’re unlikely to print at that speed normally, what happens if you print the box but set the speed multiplier to 200% or higher?

                            Ian

                            Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 21 Dec 2019, 21:40 Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              droftarts administrators
                              last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 21:02

                              Thinking about it, what you might be seeing is the effect of running the extruder so slowly, you’re seeing individual steps, and the motor has to stop between each step, which causes a lack of continuity of movement, hence the stuttering. Try setting extruder to x256 microstepping, or turn off interpolation.

                              Ian

                              Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 22 Dec 2019, 00:43 Reply Quote 0
                              • undefined
                                Murloc992
                                last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 21:39

                                So I took some oscilloscope readings at same speeds, just different stepper currents (old one at 800mA, new one at 1200mA)

                                Old motor retracting at 30mm/s:
                                2019-12-21 21.46.43.jpg

                                New motor retracting at 30mm/s:
                                2019-12-21 21.48.24.jpg
                                (seems very noisy and sharp?)

                                Old motor retracting at 5mm/s:
                                2019-12-21 21.51.15.jpg

                                New motor retracting at 5mm/s:
                                2019-12-21 21.52.06.jpg

                                "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • undefined
                                  Murloc992 @droftarts
                                  last edited by 21 Dec 2019, 21:40

                                  @droftarts 1mm/s was my test extrusion rate, not printing. 🙂

                                  "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • undefined
                                    Murloc992 @droftarts
                                    last edited by 22 Dec 2019, 00:43

                                    @droftarts said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                                    Try setting extruder to x256 microstepping, or turn off interpolation.

                                    Nothing.

                                    @droftarts said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

                                    what happens if you print the box but set the speed multiplier to 200% or higher?

                                    I will try that in the morning. 😄

                                    "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • undefined
                                      Murloc992
                                      last edited by 22 Dec 2019, 12:00

                                      @T3P3Tony Maybe you looked at my oscilloscope phase readings? Does this depict shortage of driver voltage?

                                      "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • undefined
                                        droftarts administrators
                                        last edited by 22 Dec 2019, 12:12

                                        @Murloc992 100th post! This is surprising. Sorry, we usually get these sorted a bit quicker. I don’t know much about oscilloscope readings, so can’t help there. But hopefully someone will! We'll get it sorted!

                                        Ian

                                        Bed-slinger - Mini5+ WiFi/1LC | RRP Fisher v1 - D2 WiFi | Polargraph - D2 WiFi | TronXY X5S - 6HC/Roto | CNC router - 6HC | Tractus3D T1250 - D2 Eth

                                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 22 Dec 2019, 12:16 Reply Quote 1
                                        • undefined
                                          Murloc992 @droftarts
                                          last edited by 22 Dec 2019, 12:16

                                          @droftarts In fact, the faster I print, the less artifacts I get. 15mm/s perimeter speed was in the previous pictures. 30mm/s perimeters give me less artifacts, 45mm/s feels like they don't really exist, 60mm/s erases them completely.

                                          "Just don't print small things until you have 24V"? 😆

                                          "Prusa Bear" : Full Bear frame, Bear X-Axis and Extruder. Duet 2 WiFi with RRF 3.2.2.

                                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 22 Dec 2019, 12:27 Reply Quote 0
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