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    Z axis: ball screws vs belts

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    • Dad003undefined
      Dad003
      last edited by

      to get good quality you will have ot spend a lot for a good ballscrew , belt is cheaper but platform will go down when not powered , i went from cheap leadscrew to belt and belt made my printer 1000x better on Z for quality

      fmaundefined fcwiltundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • fmaundefined
        fma @fulg
        last edited by

        @fulg said in Z axis: ball screws vs belts:

        On an unrelated note: I think I remember you from the ORDBot days, do I? 😉

        Yes! What a memory!!!

        Frédéric

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • fmaundefined
          fma @Dad003
          last edited by

          @dad003 said in Z axis: ball screws vs belts:

          to get good quality you will have ot spend a lot for a good ballscrew , belt is cheaper but platform will go down when not powered , i went from cheap leadscrew to belt and belt made my printer 1000x better on Z for quality

          Good to read that!

          Frédéric

          timcurtis67undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • fcwiltundefined
            fcwilt @Dad003
            last edited by

            @dad003 said in Z axis: ball screws vs belts:

            belt is cheaper but platform will go down when not powered

            Not necessarily. I have 3 Z steppers with 5 to 1 integral planetary gear boxes. The bed does not drop when power is removed.

            Printers: a E3D MS/TC setup and a RatRig Hybrid. Using Duet 3 hardware running 3.4.6

            Dad003undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • Dad003undefined
              Dad003 @fcwilt
              last edited by

              @fcwilt i have 2x60mm nema 17 in a pulley box going from 20>60:20>60 , but i know my platform that hold the bed is heavy which is why it goes down when off

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • timcurtis67undefined
                timcurtis67 @fma
                last edited by

                @fma
                I have a 450mm X 450mm bed (.250" thick) on 2 lead screws with 8mm travel per revolution. They are the 4 start style lead screws. I drive it with a nema 23 stepper.

                No issues with the bed dropping when the power is off but I can push it down with some slight pressure.

                mrehorstdmdundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • mrehorstdmdundefined
                  mrehorstdmd @timcurtis67
                  last edited by mrehorstdmd

                  The 30:1 worm gear reducer stops the 3.5 kg bed assembly (tested to 4kg additional load) in my printer from dropping when power is off, and I can't make it drop by pushing down on it. It has one motor, driven by the Duet board driver, and two belts that do the lifting. Worm gears FTW! There are no sync issues, and the bed is in in tram at all times. No sensors, no extra motor drivers, no extra wiring, no configuration issues. It all "just works" every time. The only downside is that I can't make youtube videos of it. There's just no excitement at all...

                  https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

                  o_lampeundefined zaptaundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • o_lampeundefined
                    o_lampe @mrehorstdmd
                    last edited by

                    @mrehorstdmd
                    I remember your worm drive was quite expensive and not easy to get outside U.S.
                    What was it's name? Rhino-something...

                    mrehorstdmdundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • zaptaundefined
                      zapta @mrehorstdmd
                      last edited by

                      @mrehorstdmd said in Z axis: ball screws vs belts:

                      no extra wiring...

                      It was replaced with extra belting. 😉

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • mrehorstdmdundefined
                        mrehorstdmd @o_lampe
                        last edited by

                        @o_lampe https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rino-Motorized-Rotary-Table-Stage-CNC-4th-Axis-Sherline-Milling-Engraver-Router/191714031261?epid=711126295&hash=item2ca30bf69d:g:A7UAAOSwPhdVB2f0
                        $108 shipped. You get the motor and worm drive already integrated. Compare that to the cost of a motor and brake, or buying a motor and separate gear box. This type seems to work fine, too, and can be bought via aliexpress in whatever country you're in: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEMA17-Turbine-Worm-Gear-Stepper-motor-Hybrid-2-Phase-4-wires/324001642095?hash=item4b7000b66f:g:HTMAAOSwEGVd50j1

                        @zapta Yes, belts instead of wires and connectors. How often have you heard of wiring problems vs how often have you heard of belts failing? I suppose ineptitude in wiring can translate to ineptitude in mechanics, so they're probably even by that measure.

                        https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

                        zaptaundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • zaptaundefined
                          zapta @mrehorstdmd
                          last edited by

                          @mrehorstdmd said in Z axis: ball screws vs belts:

                          How often have you heard of wiring problems vs how often have you heard of belts failing?

                          Chances are your printer has many more wires than belts so more room for failure. 😉

                          BTW, I just started to collect parts for a Voron V2.4. If I got it correctly, the design has 8 (eight) belts and 16 puleys/idlers just for the Z movement, so belting can be fun.

                          9fe1bff3-add7-4f67-b862-6beb0a3a950a-image.png

                          mrehorstdmdundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • tech-ratonundefined
                            tech-raton
                            last edited by

                            I went the other route, with belts and counterweights...
                            1 kilo per belt.
                            alt text

                            Works nicely, no more falling without power.
                            I used brake cable for bike with wheels because the tubing had too much friction.

                            zaptaundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • zaptaundefined
                              zapta @tech-raton
                              last edited by zapta

                              It seems that belted Z is gaining traction in the desktop 3D printers world. For example, the Voron Switchwire, a bed slinger, uses a coreXY configuration for the X/Z plane, and then, not to mention the deltas.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • mrehorstdmdundefined
                                mrehorstdmd @zapta
                                last edited by

                                @zapta Wow! 8 belts to move Z! That's terrific, but wouldn't 10 be even better?

                                @tech-raton It's got a very steam-punk look to it!

                                https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

                                tech-ratonundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • fmaundefined
                                  fma
                                  last edited by

                                  Does small gaz cylinders exist, like for car rear tail-board?

                                  Frédéric

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • tech-ratonundefined
                                    tech-raton @mrehorstdmd
                                    last edited by tech-raton

                                    @mrehorstdmd

                                    The tubing isn't copper in my watercooling, but it will be...

                                    But i need to find a way to solve the galvanic corrosion.

                                    @fma said in Z axis: ball screws vs belts:

                                    Does small gaz cylinders exist, like for car rear tail-board?

                                    Yep, you can find these in any length, but their power is different along the length.
                                    Think of them like a spring.

                                    o_lampeundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • o_lampeundefined
                                      o_lampe @tech-raton
                                      last edited by

                                      @tech-raton said in Z axis: ball screws vs belts:

                                      But i need to find a way to solve the galvanic corrosion.

                                      Why not take brass instead? That's ~70% copper, without corrosion.

                                      tech-ratonundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • tech-ratonundefined
                                        tech-raton @o_lampe
                                        last edited by

                                        @o_lampe

                                        Copper tubing is easier to find than brass tube...

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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