Missing Steps - Cant Print SpreadCycle StealthChop tuning help

Phaedrux

Nothing new to report at the moment but yes, we are on the case.

droftarts

I'm getting hold of Wantai, LDO (thanks @carcamerarig) and E3D 0.9° motors to test. I have a range of Duet boards to test on, and a stepper motor analyser coming. Unfortunately it's not going to be a quick fix; I'll probably need to write a report to send to Trinamic and/or LDO with my findings.

If people can post their sys folder and a file that causes them issues, preferably together in a zip file (you can upload zip files to the forum, so long as you put .txt on the end, or host them elsewhere and post a link), and comment what board and motors they have, that may make this task a little quicker.

If anyone has any observations, or spots other conversations about this issue, even on other firmwares, please post and I'll follow it up.

Ian

carcamerarig

Little update...
Im still having the banging / thumping issues with 1.8 motors causing layer shifts.

Y runs from left to right in this image

Sat with it for 1.5hrs listening and watching, there are still what im calling micro bumps where for instance on the infill pattern both X and Y are very jerky and its this causing the micro thumps but on a few travel moves there is a distinct bang and this mid move stop for a few ms's then the moves continues. This is the layer shift point, nice and sane print / travel speeds as faster print moves are worse.

File download sliced in PS

in between the .9's and 1.8 motors, I noticed the Y motor holder had a crack in it, I believe caused by these bangs ( I was actually hopeful that it was a mechanical fault causing the whole issue but sadly still persists after fitting the replacement holder) And if im honest the infill movements do seem like the bearing blocks have square bearings inside but after numerous times of disconnecting the belts to check the carriages run butter smooth ( I have also repacked them for clarity).

So this isn't unique to the .9's in my case both in hybrid mode or forced spreadcycle, any suggestions on things to try / test? Run in standalone mode? 3.2 fw? This latest config is running in M569 V0 mode. Is it possible I have a faulty board?

Config

; General preferences 											Duplicate lines and comment out unused
G90																; Send absolute coordinates...
M83																; ...but relative extruder moves
M564 H0															; Permits ALL Axis movement prior to or without ANY Homing require [ over-rides default of no movement until all homed ]
 
; Network														Networked of sbc
;M550 P"Duet3"													; Set machine name
;M552 S1														; Enable network
;*** Access point is configured manually via M587
;M586 P0 S1														; Enable HTTP
;M586 P1 S0														; Disable FTP
;M586 P2 S0														; Disable Telnet
M575 P1 S1 B57600												; Panel Due
 
; Drive Mappings
M569 P0.0 S0 V0												; Drive 0 goes forwards: X Axis
M569 P0.1 S0 V0												; Drive 1 goes backwards: Y Axis
M569 P0.2 S0 V0											; Drive 2 goes backwards: Z Axis
M569 P0.3 S0 V0												; Drive 3 goes forwards: E Axis
M569 P0.4 S0 V0											; Drive 4 goes backwards: Z Axis (at E1)
 
; Motor remapping for dual Z and axis Limits
M584 X0 Y1 Z2:4 E3												; two Z motors connected to driver outputs Z and E1
M671 X-37:287 Y0:0 S4											; leadscrews at left (connected to Z) and right (connected to E1) of X axis
 
; Micrpstepping and Speed
M350 X32 Y32 E16 Z16 I1											; Configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 X200.00 Y200.00 Z400.00 E830.00								; Set steps per mm
 
; Speeds, Acceleration and Jerk
M566 X240 Y240 Z24 E1200 P1									    ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min) aka Jerk
M203 X9000 Y9000 Z720 E4000									; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X2000 Y2000 Z200 E4000								; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M204 P1250 T1700												; set print and travel accelerations (mm(s^2)
 
; Motor currents
M906 X800 Y850 Z600 E792 I30								; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in percent
M84 S30															; Set idle timeout
 
; Printer geometry
M208 X0:250 Y-4:215 Z-0.5:415									; X carriage moves from 0 to 250, Y bed goes from 0 to 210
M564 H0															; allow unhomed movement
 
; Endstops for each Axis
M574 X1 S3								 	; Set endstops controlled by motor load detection
M574 Y1 S3                               	; Set endstops controlled by motor load detection

; Stallgaurd Sensitivy
M915 X S-5 F0 H200 R0		                ; Set X axis Sensitivity  
M915 Y S-1 F0 H200 R0		                ; Set y axis Sensitivity 

 
; Input Shaper
;M593 F61.85														; Input Shaping
 
; Z-Probe Super Pinda
M574 X1 S3														; configure sensorless endstop for low end on X
M574 Y1 S3														; configure sensorless endstop for low end on Y
M574 Z1 S2														; Set endstops controlled by probe
M558 P5 C"^io3.in" I1 H1 F500 T4800 A30 S0.004					; Super Pinda
 
; Probing Mesh Grid and Sheets
M557 X24:221 Y10:195 P8											; Define mesh grid for probing
G31 P1000 X23 Y5 Z1.91											; Textured Sheet
;G31 P1000 X23 Y5 Z1.280										; PEI
 
; Heatbed Heaters and Thermistor Bed 
M308 S0 P"temp0" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4725 C7.060000e-8		; Set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 0 Bed
M950 H0 C"out0" T0 Q10											; Creates Bed Heater
M307 H0 R0.273 C345.3 D10.89 S1.00 V23.8						; Bed PID new version !!saved In config-override!!
M140 H0															; Bed uses Heater 0
M143 H0 S120													; Set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C Bed
 
; HotEnd Heaters and Thermistor HotEnd      
M308 S1 P"temp1" Y"thermistor" T500000 B4723 C1.19622e-7		;define E0 temperature sensor Slice HT
M950 H1 C"out1" T1												; Create HotEnd Heater
M307 H1 R2.383 C178.5:130.6 D5.32 S1.00 V23.9					; Hotend PID new version !!saved In config-override!!
M143 H1 S285													; Set temperature limit for heater 1 to 285C HotEnd
M302 S185 R185
 
; Fans
M950 F1 C"out5" Q250											; Creates HOTEND Fan
M106 P1 T45 S235 H1												; HOTEND Fan Settings
M950 F0 C"out6" Q100											; Creates PARTS COOLING FAN
M106 P0 H-1														; Set fan 1 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off PARTS COOLING FAN
 
; Tools
M563 P0 D0 H1 F0												; Define tool 0
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0													; Set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0													; Set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C
 
G91
G1 X1 Y1 Z1														; calibrate StealthChop values
G90
M83
G4 S2
M84																; disable motors
 
M98 P"0:/macros/02_Functions/StartupFilamentSensorCheck"		; Runout Sensor Logic: Startup with filament = runout sensor active   Startup without filament = autoload active
 
;M92 X200.00 Y200.00 Z400.00 E830.00								; Set steps per mm

Phaedrux

@carcamerarig said in Missing Steps - Cant Print SpreadCycle StealthChop tuning help:

Run in standalone mode?

Always worth trying.

carcamerarig

@phaedrux said in Missing Steps - Cant Print SpreadCycle StealthChop tuning help:

@carcamerarig said in Missing Steps - Cant Print SpreadCycle StealthChop tuning help:

Run in standalone mode?

Always worth trying.

Is there a debugging mode that could do a hw / fw dump or whatever you call it?

Phaedrux

@carcamerarig M122 gives a dump of info on the current state. And there is additional logging you can enable but I'm not sure it will capture anything useful in this case.

https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Logging
and
https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Getting_Started_With_Duet_3#Section_Monitoring_optional

fulg

Just another data point: I am having a similar problem on a CoreXY setup, Mini5+ and 0.9 motors. The printer worked perfectly with a Duet2 but will randomly (and loudly!) skip steps with a Mini5+.

I have raised the motor amps and lowered jerk a lot (M566), reduced travel & print speed in the slicer, forced spreadCycle mode all the time on XY but still I get skipping, exactly like @carcamerarig describes (suddenly a loud "thump" and then there is a major layer shift). It is random, sometimes I can finish a small print but usually not.

I see this in the M122 dump, could it be related? Write errors, timeouts, failedOps...

Driver 0: position 99200, standstill, SG min/max 0/54, read errors 0, write errors 1, ifcnt 59, reads 53605, writes 19, timeouts 184, DMA errors 0, failedOp 0x41
Driver 1: position 0, standstill, SG min/max 0/52, read errors 0, write errors 1, ifcnt 59, reads 53758, writes 19, timeouts 31, DMA errors 0, failedOp 0x72
Driver 2: position 5755, standstill, SG min/max 0/56, read errors 0, write errors 1, ifcnt 58, reads 53596, writes 18, timeouts 194, DMA errors 0, failedOp 0x6f
Driver 3: position 0, standstill, SG min/max 0/56, read errors 0, write errors 1, ifcnt 58, reads 53650, writes 19, timeouts 138, DMA errors 0, failedOp 0x6f
Driver 4: position 0, standstill, SG min/max 0/62, read errors 0, write errors 1, ifcnt 41, reads 53792, writes 13, timeouts 3, DMA errors 0, failedOp 0x01
Driver 5: position 0, standstill, SG min/max 0/510, read errors 0, write errors 1, ifcnt 55, reads 53598, writes 18, timeouts 192, DMA errors 0, failedOp 0x72
Driver 6: position 0, standstill, SG min/max 0/496, read errors 0, write errors 1, ifcnt 55, reads 53787, writes 18, timeouts 3, DMA errors 0, failedOp 0x41

I tried upgrading from 3.2.2 to 3.3b2 and that made no difference, skipping is still random.

SputnikOC3d

@fulg - what motors are you running - brand and model # ?

Thank you for posting ...

carcamerarig

What are @fulg 's write errors? I have seen those in my M122 reports in the past.

fulg

@sputnikoc3d Motors are 17HM19-2004S bought directly from OMC StepperOnline.

It seems not everyone with a Mini5+ and these motors is affected, I am talking with another VORON user who has the same Mini5+ setup with the same motors and he has no issues at any speed, with the "default" M569 parameters (i.e. no need to increase current, force spreadCycle mode or anything special). I believe he has a 0.5 board though (mine is 1.0).

He also sees similar errors reported from the drivers in M122 but it works for him so it's probably unrelated. He is also running 3.3b2.

Note that I am not using any of the sensorless features, I have real endstops on my machine and do not care about tuning hybrid mode (it was unusable on Maestro, I had to disable it over there too on a different printer).

I really wish we can get to the bottom of it because I am contemplating going back to Duet2, this Mini5+ is completely unusable.

carcamerarig

@fulg said in Missing Steps - Cant Print SpreadCycle StealthChop tuning help:

@sputnikoc3d Motors are 17HM19-2004S bought directly from OMC StepperOnline.

It seems not everyone with a Mini5+ and these motors is affected, I am talking with another VORON user who has the same Mini5+ setup with the same motors and he has no issues at any speed, with the "default" M569 parameters (i.e. no need to increase current, force spreadCycle mode or anything special). I believe he has a 0.5 board though (mine is 1.0).

He also sees similar errors reported from the drivers in M122 but it works for him so it's probably unrelated. He is also running 3.3b2.

Note that I am not using any of the sensorless features, I have real endstops on my machine and do not care about tuning hybrid mode (it was unusable on Maestro, I had to disable it over there too on a different printer).

I really wish we can get to the bottom of it because I am contemplating going back to Duet2, this Mini5+ is completely unusable.

Who is it?

gloomyandy

@fulg It is normal to get a single write error when RRF first talks to a TMC driver (after power on/reset etc). Basically the two sides need to get in sync to be able to communicate correctly, as a result of this process the first write from RRF will fail (and be recorded as a write error). Not sure about the timeouts though.

fulg

@carcamerarig very well then, I will drag him into this thread.

Hello @oc_geek, you have been summoned! I don't know if you can share more details that haven't been shared already. You seem to have found the magic recipe that eludes many of us.

I know we have the same printer, same motors, same LCD, same firmware version, so perhaps you can help...

For now I am trying another workaround, which is to force stealthChop all the time via M569 ... V1. It is a bit too early to call but so far I am further into a print that has always failed before (I need to slowly remove all my other attempts at working around this issue!). The motors are quite a bit noisier in stealthChop (I would have expected the opposite) but they seem not to stall anymore.

EDIT: this turned out to be false and does not help, I don't want to mislead anyone reading this later.

SputnikOC3d

@fulg - Thanks so much!

Im in process of building a V2.4 and have the pi - expansion board needed and the Duet 3 Mini 5+ in hand ... I have OMC stepper online motors in a cart waiting to pull trigger and / or the LDO's. Both of those options seem questionable atm.

We too have an associate on the full duet3 main board and V2.4 using stepper online [ omc 1.8* motors and No missing steps issues - yet ]

Baffling to say the least ...

droftarts

Thanks all for the extra information, please do keep it coming. Can everyone remind me if they are using their Duet 3 Mini 5+ with SBC (and which one, if so) or not? If you are using SBC, if you try printing without SBC, do you still get the thumping and move errors?

Ian

fulg

@droftarts I knew I should have waited before posting. Forcing stealthChop with M569 V1 does not help, I just had that same random stall, it just progressed quite a bit further than before.

I am running in stand-alone mode.

carcamerarig

@droftarts said in Missing Steps - Cant Print SpreadCycle StealthChop tuning help:

Thanks all for the extra information, please do keep it coming. Can everyone remind me if they are using their Duet 3 Mini 5+ with SBC (and which one, if so) or not? If you are using SBC, if you try printing without SBC, do you still get the thumping and move errors?

Ian

Im try to setup standalone now if I can get past this damn wifi issue...

droftarts

@carcamerarig in config.g, I comment these lines:

;M550 P"Duet3"													; Set machine name
;M552 S1														; Enable network
;M586 P0 S1														; Enable HTTP
;M586 P1 S0														; Disable FTP
;M586 P2 S0

If you haven’t added the WiFi SSID, connect via USB and follow https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Guide/1.)+Getting+Connected+to+your+Duet/7#s9

Ian

dc42

I am trying to catch up with this thread. From what I have read, the main issue is that the motor is making banging/thumping noises when switching between low and high speeds, even when the motor is supposedly running in spreadCycle mode.

Some questions for those affected:

Does the problem still occur if you have never changed the M569 settings from the defaults? If you are using stall-detect homing, then to test this you will needs to "pretend home" using G92 instead of homing using stall detection.
If you pause the print, then re-send the M569 commands to select spreadCycle, confirm the setting using M122, and then resume the print, does the problem continue?
If #2 doesn't help, what happens if you pause the print, send M569 P# V4000 for each axis driver #, and then resume the print: does the problem continue?

One possibility that I am considering is that after switching to stealthChop, switching back to spreadCycle isn't working; although in the test that I have just done, it does work.

fulg

@dc42 said in Missing Steps - Cant Print SpreadCycle StealthChop tuning help:

the motor is making banging/thumping noises when switching between low and high speeds, even when the motor is supposedly running in spreadCycle mode.

This is not completely exact. It seems to work fine most of the time (normal moves are well over the default threshold of 2.3mm/s and usually don't have an issue), the problem is that randomly during a print you will hear this "thump" and then realize you now have a layer shift in your print. It behaves exactly like the head has hit something mid-print, yet there is no evidence of any obstruction. It does seem to correspond to a travel move. The behavior is random, restarting the same print may fail at a different point along the way (or not at all).

Does the problem still occur if you have never changed the M569 settings from the defaults? If you are using stall-detect homing, then to test this you will needs to "pretend home" using G92 instead of homing using stall detection.

Yes, the problem happens with default M569 values, i.e. M569 P5 S1. I am not using sensorless homing. The problem also occurs by forcing the drivers to stay in spreadCycle mode (M569 D2 ...) or stealthChop mode (M569 V1 ...). I guess I should try M569 V4000 ... too, perhaps just D2 is not enough.

As for your questions #2 and #3, after the problem happens the printer has essentially lost its XY reference due to the skip, so it is hard to continue a print. If I am not next to the printer to stop it, it keeps going fine (but shifted!). I have not let it continue up to a second shift during the same print.

Also note that this happens even with increased motor current, reduced printing & travel speeds and significantly lower instant movement thresholds (everything much slower than my Duet2 settings on the same machine).

So far I've only had the problem happen in one direction on my CoreXY. I don't know if it matters but so far it is always the X motor that skips, as confirmed by G1 H2 X10 moving in the same diagonal. Could be luck of the draw too...

Is there a way to dump out the TMC2209 registers easily? I should build my own version of the firmware to help out.