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    Orbiter 2 extruder mounting for Smart effector with Magball arms

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    Smart effector for delta printers
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    • bbergerundefined
      bberger @jay_s_uk
      last edited by

      @jay_s_uk would you be willing to share the STEP/F3D file on your LGX Mount? Would be using a 20mm motor though and would like to get a starting point on the tilt and offset..

      Fred-Yundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • bbergerundefined
        bberger
        last edited by bberger

        I've settled on a solution for me now. Still undecided if I want to go back to the flying orbiter v2 though as the input shaping graphs don't look too bad, but compared to the flying extruder don't look too good either.. and I'm kinda into getting prints done as fast as I can:

        Direct Drive Orbiter v2 on 80mm adapter:
        shaper_calibrate_y_orbiterv2_direct.png

        Flying Orbiter v2 on stock 55mm Smart Effector:
        shaper_calibrate_y_220908_1311.png

        Flying Orbiter v2 on 80mm Adapter for reference what the 80mm adapter alone does to my input shaper graph:
        shaper_calibrate_y_3points_220423_80mm_flying_extruder.png

        //Edit: the graphs only tell half the truth. I can't even get close to max suggested accelerations on the direct drive without having motion artifacts (no ringing, but "smoothing" from hell). Need to go down to about 2.5k to have comparable print quality to the flying extruder on 8.5k acceleration.

        I'll be reverting back and just get a second printer for printing flexibles.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Fred-Yundefined
          Fred-Y @bberger
          last edited by

          @bberger Have you redesigned a LGX lite mount for the Smart Effector?
          I spend quite some time lately on pushing my SR with a flying LGX Lite so I would like to compare with a direct drive.

          bbergerundefined weed2allundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • bbergerundefined
            bberger @Fred-Y
            last edited by

            @fred-y I don't have a solution that I'm happy to share tbh (80mm rod spacing adapter + a pain in the butt mount for the LGX lite).

            That LGX Lite is a pain to mate to the smart effector and any adapter I had thought of. The pain of a need to screw them from the bottom is real.

            BUT: on the SR I suspect you could probably get away with this without losing print volume:
            https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5255358

            It doesn't print really well though and needs supports.

            Fred-Yundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • Fred-Yundefined
              Fred-Y @bberger
              last edited by

              @bberger Thanks for the link, I didn't see this one the other day when I did a search.
              On my other printers I have a 2 parts mount for the LGX Lite because of these screws on the bottom; Maybe I should be looking at doing the same or just give up.

              On a side note, the other day I realized something about how we mount the extruder on the SE - I have not an expert on kinematic / force but with the extruder mount attached on the effector we apply the filament pressure on the 3 screws.
              When doing high speed printing this pressure is fairly high.

              I was wondering if we could be looking at reusing the thread from the hotend by this way there is no (or very little) pressure on the PCB but I'm worry about the impact for the probe.
              The 3 holes on the PCB could just be used to stabilize everything.

              I'm just sharing the idea ... what do you think?

              bbergerundefined Adrian52undefined Falkiaundefined 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Adrian52undefined
                Adrian52
                last edited by

                Just to add that I have updated the orbiter 2 mount, posted at https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5402227
                I have made small changes including thickening the top mount and extruder mount, and kept the 55 mm magball spacing. I have recently started using a revo micro extruder, so have included a part cooling duct for that.
                The revo seems to have a higher melt rate than the v6 I was using previously, so I have been able to print at 250mm/sec, with 300mm/sec travel speed, with very good results.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • bbergerundefined
                  bberger @Fred-Y
                  last edited by

                  @fred-y though about exactly that multiple times. Problem is that it's pointless with 55mm magball spacing as you need some real nasty vertical offset and tilt to jot collide with the arms which then puts a lot of direct force onto the hotend itself.

                  Adrian52undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Adrian52undefined
                    Adrian52 @bberger
                    last edited by Adrian52

                    @bberger I find that the 55mm spacing (which I wanted to use to avoid changes to carriages) works well with a 12mm extension - the extruder can be horizontal (filament path vertical). Here is my setup in the furthest -Y position, where the arms are closest to the extruder motor.
                    17a6cb34-f741-4cca-8309-6bb432cae6fb-image.png

                    The gap between the extruder platform and the top of the hotend is about 1mm:
                    7ce2022e-d946-4cbd-9f47-617e41d37057-image.png , giving the shortest possible filament path. I would have thought that as the downward force during extrusion is symetrically distrubuted, the strain on the effector/hotend should not be a problem.

                    These puzzle pieces, which are about 40mm long and 14mm high, were printed at 250mm/sec, with 300mm/sec travel.
                    f241454c-c872-4c4f-a09a-1c1a926cd784-image.png
                    The pieces fit together to make and Escher solid:
                    44446e98-1829-4e15-b6f1-eefd34f70c0d-image.png
                    We have just had a jubilee here in the UK - hence the red white and blue. The pieces have to be very precise to fit together with no gaps.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Adrian52undefined
                      Adrian52 @Fred-Y
                      last edited by

                      @fred-y Thanks for this idea - it seems to work. I made this:
                      alt text
                      using the two holes on the motor side of the extruder. This leaves a nice gap on the molex connector side for the plug to fit properly.
                      This is how it looks in situ:
                      alt text

                      I am using the default sensitivity on a v3 smart effector, and found that it needed an extra -0.04 on the probe offset. Seems to work well though - a 19 point G32 gave a 0.010 fit.

                      The mount pictured was printed with the new setup - I was fine tuning the thread diameter - 12.3mm was good for me. I havent pushed the new setup yet - seems promising though.

                      Fred-Yundefined vapvapundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                      • Fred-Yundefined
                        Fred-Y @Adrian52
                        last edited by

                        @adrian52 That's really nice!
                        You've done exactly what I was thinking about, I'm happy to know it works.

                        I will definitively spend a little bit of time on Fusion360 this week to try something for the LGX Lite on either my SR or Predator.
                        What is pitch of the thread on the heatsink?
                        2d301857-ba92-4aaa-b80d-3c963a69047d-image.png

                        Adrian52undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Adrian52undefined
                          Adrian52 @Fred-Y
                          last edited by

                          @fred-y Its 1.5mm.
                          You do need to be able to rotate your hot end - would be difficult with a v6 where the heater block really has to be aligned with the part cooling fan

                          bbergerundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • bbergerundefined
                            bberger @Adrian52
                            last edited by

                            @adrian52 said in Orbiter 2 extruder mounting for Smart effector with Magball arms:

                            @fred-y Its 1.5mm.
                            You do need to be able to rotate your hot end - would be difficult with a v6 where the heater block really has to be aligned with the part cooling fan

                            It actually depends. The earlier versions that shipped with the metal nut had a fine pitch..

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • vapvapundefined
                              vapvap @Adrian52
                              last edited by

                              @adrian52 Wow! Looks solid. Is this design available for download somewhere? Or is it an "alpha" version?

                              tecnoundefined Adrian52undefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • tecnoundefined
                                tecno @vapvap
                                last edited by

                                cde00a65-7daa-41ba-86ba-4c6854adc249-DSC_0187.JPG

                                I have this on my Big Delta.

                                dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • dc42undefined
                                  dc42 administrators @tecno
                                  last edited by dc42

                                  Does any of you have a view as to how much the size of the Smart Effector should be increased to allow the Orbiter 2 to be mounted directly on it?

                                  Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                  Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                  http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                  tecnoundefined Adrian52undefined Snimaxundefined 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • tecnoundefined
                                    tecno @dc42
                                    last edited by

                                    @dc42
                                    Will you want to keep 55mm c/c on balls or go a bit wider there also?

                                    dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • dc42undefined
                                      dc42 administrators @tecno
                                      last edited by

                                      @tecno said in Orbiter 2 extruder mounting for Smart effector with Magball arms:

                                      @dc42
                                      Will you want to keep 55mm c/c on balls or go a bit wider there also?

                                      Go wider.

                                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                      tecnoundefined jay_s_ukundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • tecnoundefined
                                        tecno @dc42
                                        last edited by

                                        @dc42

                                        Good, like that approach a lot. You should also have a look at Phaetus 4-screw mounting of the hotend.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • jay_s_ukundefined
                                          jay_s_uk @dc42
                                          last edited by

                                          @dc42 yes, definitely look at supporting mounting a dragon or dragonfly hotend

                                          Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF. Assume I'm running whatever the latest beta/stable build is

                                          tecnoundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • tecnoundefined
                                            tecno @jay_s_uk
                                            last edited by

                                            @jay_s_uk @dc42

                                            Not via adapter as I have today! We must get rid of the E3D style big hole that can not lock the hotend!

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
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