3.5 B3 Toolboard stepper intermittently running backwards

Exerqtor

@oliof
I'm using FW ✌

mule

I am having the same issue withe B3: When trying to print a test for measuring pressure advance the filament gets retracted so far that it even leaves the extruder gears after printing some lines. It is always happening at the same position when trying to print the following gcode:pa_pattern.gcode

gloomyandy

@mule Can you identify at which point it goes into reverse? Layer height or whatever? Having your config.g file would also be good if anyone needs to reproduce this.

ctilley79

@gloomyandy You don't need to be in a print for the problem to occur. You can just manually extrude from the DWC console or the extrude buttons on the DWC dashboard page. I thought the the threshold was F254 but now it seems to vary.

mule

@gloomyandy
Some of my findings:
Nr. 1: The purge line is not being completed because the extruder runs backwards after printing about half of the line
Nr. 2: Line is not being printed because the extruder runs backwards
Nr. 3: The extruder motor stands still and neither moves forward nor backwards. Therefore no filament is being extruded until the end of the whole print job.

Findings: There is not only an issue with retracting instead of extruding but also with a complete stop of the extruder motor. Looking at Nr. 1 and Nr.2 it seems to me that the extruder runs backwards whenever the y axis is moving from the front to the back (Y increases).

Hopefully this helps.

Beta3 - Extruder Issues.jpg

gloomyandy

@mule That's very useful, but anyone trying to reproduce it really needs to see how you have things configured, so please post your config.g file (or whatever you use to setup things).

mule

@gloomyandy Sorry, of course you're right. Please find attached the the config.g and the macro (PrintStart.txt) including the code for printing the purge line:
config.g
PrintStart.txt

OwenD

@mule
Is there any way you can try your extruder on a different driver?
I only say because I have had a driver fail that was randomly missing steps and only running in one direction
https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/28666/motor-travels-in-one-direction-regardless-of-command/4?_=1682994512366

oliof

@OwenD I like your thinking but its quite unlikely that we are seeing a mass death of drivers on various toolboards of different makes and models.

mule

@OwenD It is not a defective driver, because if downgrading the firmware to v3.4 everything is working fine again.

ctilley79

@OwenD It's not a failure of a driver because rolling back to 3.4 fixes the issue

ctilley79

@gloomyandy I'm not trying to bug you but I'm just curious. Have you been able to reproduce the issue?

gloomyandy

@ctilley79 Not exactly, I've been running a lot of general extrusion tests on my e3d toolchanger comparing two different toolboards (a 1LC and a prototype rp2040 based one) against a tool driven directly from the main board. I've seen some extrusion issues with both the toolboard based tools and with the directly driven tool, though they seem to be slightly different. In both cases I have only seen a problem when using both PA and IS at the same time. I've passed on my results to DC42 and hopefully he will be able to investigate further. I don't think I've seen the extruder running backwards in any of those tests.

Exerqtor

@gloomyandy Not running backwards is one thing, but have you gotten it to just stop? The extruder i mean, Intermittently and then start again by itself?

Phaedrux

We are aware of and looking into this issue. I'll create a github issue for it today hopefully.

And many thanks to those doing the excellent testing and reporting here.

tas

@Phaedrux I would like to add some information to this issue which will hopefully be helpful.

I have a simple setup, Ender 5 Pro with Duet 2 Wifi in standalone mode, no toolboards or other attachments. Running 3.5.0-beta.3.

I just finished installing an LGX Lite extruder and custom fan setup. I calibrated esteps and had some strange issues.

From the PanelDue Extrude retracts and Retract extrudes. I thought I had the direction backwards for the LGX Lite but I did not.

Strangely prints seemed to work. However doing more testing this morning I noticed that the purge at the start of a print actually retracts the purge amount. But then the print proceeds normally.

The same thing happens with the Panel Due in that at some point (seems random) the direction corrects itself.

My point is it may be a more general issue than just toolboards.

If you need any testing done I will be calibrating this printer all day so happy to oblige.

ctilley79

@tas That's very interesting. Pretty much rules out issues with the can bus.

dc42

@tas thanks for the additional data points. I expect to investigate this issue tomorrow.

dc42

@tas please provide your config.g file.

Do you have pressure advance or input shaping configured?

dc42

@ctilley79 @tas @Argo I have found a possible cause of this issue. It will indeed give the appearance of randomness because whether it happens will depend on the history of moves done. It is most likely to occur either segmentation is enabled. It is unlikely to occur unless pressure advance is in use, although it might possibly occur on a delta printer even when pressure advance is not used.

Are you able to test a new build of the firmware that should correct this? If so, which boards do you need firmware for?