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    My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end

    My Duet controlled machine
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    • deckingman
      deckingman last edited by

      I've taken a few more tentative steps along what I'm sure will be a bumpy road and which may even end up in a cul-de-sac. But anyway, I've started to document the journey on my blog if anyone is interested https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/2019/06/06/my-modular-multi-input-multi-material-mixing-hot-end-part-1/

      Ian
      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
      https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

      brunofporto 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 8
      • Phaedrux
        Phaedrux Moderator last edited by

        You mad lad. That's quite the contraption. Can't wait to see how it turns out. Best of luck.

        Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

        deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • deckingman
          deckingman @Phaedrux last edited by

          @phaedrux Thanks - I'll need all the luck I can get.

          Ian
          https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
          https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • brunofporto
            brunofporto last edited by

            0_1559840058840_a1207f58-223d-4f6d-a361-85a349bedac9-image.png

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • mrehorstdmd
              mrehorstdmd last edited by

              Nah, this!

              alt text

              https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/

              brunofporto deckingman 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • brunofporto
                brunofporto @mrehorstdmd last edited by

                @mrehorstdmd yes! 😄

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • brunofporto
                  brunofporto @deckingman last edited by

                  @deckingman Amazing 😄 Will follow. There should be some pressure losses within the mixing chamber that I am curious to the effects!

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • deckingman
                    deckingman @mrehorstdmd last edited by

                    @mrehorstdmd That's an impressive 3D print ☺

                    Ian
                    https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                    https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • deckingman
                      deckingman last edited by

                      I've just posted Part 2 here if anyone is interested https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/2019/06/13/my-modular-multi-input-multi-material-mixing-hot-end-part-2/

                      Ian
                      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                      https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                      T3P3Tony dc42 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • T3P3Tony
                        T3P3Tony administrators @deckingman last edited by

                        @deckingman is the design really too compact to use e3d heatbreaks to save you quite a bit of effort?

                        www.duet3d.com

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • dc42
                          dc42 administrators @deckingman last edited by

                          Nice write-up!

                          I think E3D heat breaks would save you a lot of effort, if you can find a way to get round the problem that both ends are threaded. Maybe you can screw an aluminium sleeve onto the bottom thread. It could be worth asking E3D whether they can make you some heat breaks with one of the threads left off, since they may be interested in your research. The top end could screw directly into an aluminium block with a water cooling hole running through it, so no need for a water tank on the hot end at all.

                          There are also other types of threaded heat breaks that can be screwed into both the heater block and the heatsink without needing to rotate either. For example, this one https://www.amazon.com/Bowden-Extruder-Throat-Heatbreak-3-00mm/dp/B07G99G5MB.

                          Regarding the filament inlet spacing, what's the reason for putting the BMGs on the outside and the extruder stepper motors on the inside, instead of the reverse? Is it because you sometimes need to dismantle the BMGs to deal with filament issues?

                          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                          deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • T3P3Tony
                            T3P3Tony administrators last edited by

                            @deckingman to add to what @dc42 has said e3d have single end threaded heatsinks for use on the Chimera etc: see "whats in the box" here:
                            https://e3d-online.com/chimera
                            0_1560442926486_c76817c0-823f-4cf8-bd1e-fce0635ebbc8-image.png

                            www.duet3d.com

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • deckingman
                              deckingman @dc42 last edited by

                              @dc42 said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                              Regarding the filament inlet spacing, what's the reason for putting the BMGs on the outside and the extruder stepper motors on the inside, instead of the reverse? Is it because you sometimes need to dismantle the BMGs to deal with filament issues?

                              Mostly that but also fitting them in the first place. The screws go through the extruder body into the motor so if two extruders face each other, it's impossible. Having said that, maybe I could fix each set of 3 onto a plate, then somehow slot or bolt that plate into place. If I needed to dis-assemble one extruder, I'd have to remove the plate with all three but that wouldn't be the end of the world. It's only a partial solution to the problem though - there would still be a significant offset in X if not so much in Y, but if the inputs to the hot end were angled, it might work. I do have a bit of a concern about heat with those 6 motors being in such close proximity to each other, so having the motors on the outside would be advantageous in that respect.

                              Ref heat breaks, certainly "off the shelf" ones will save me a lot of heartache. As well as the E3D variant, I was very taken by what the inventor (if that's the word) of the Zatsit printer was doing. Also the Slice engineering Mosquito seemed to be a very efficient heat break design. If I could adapt my design to use either of those, and if either of those companies would supply me just the heat breaks, that's another option.

                              Lots to think about............

                              Ian
                              https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                              https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                              wilriker 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Martin1454
                                Martin1454 last edited by

                                Im really looking foward to see how it turns out 🙂 - The "maze mixing" design sounds interresting!

                                deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • deckingman
                                  deckingman @Martin1454 last edited by

                                  @martin1454 There are a few untested ideas that ultimately might not work. I've set the bar quite high trying to do multi-material as well as mixing so in the end, I might have to make some sort of compromise. But for now, I'll leave the bar where it is and keep on trying.

                                  Ian
                                  https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                  https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • fma
                                    fma last edited by

                                    Did anyone aready try to inject ink in the melted zone to color the filament? It should be easier to mix CMYB inks rather than PLA...

                                    Frédéric

                                    deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • deckingman
                                      deckingman @fma last edited by

                                      @fma said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                                      Did anyone aready try to inject ink in the melted zone to color the filament? It should be easier to mix CMYB inks rather than PLA...

                                      Kind of. IIRC, that was something that Adrian Bowyer or one of his students was looking into. If you look at the firmware, you'll see this https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M578_Fire_inkjet_bits. It seems to have died a death so maybe there were some problems that couldbn't be overcome.

                                      Ian
                                      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                      https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                      Phaedrux 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • wilriker
                                        wilriker @deckingman last edited by

                                        @deckingman said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                                        Ref heat breaks [...] Also the Slice engineering Mosquito seemed to be a very efficient heat break design. If I could adapt my design to use either of those, and if either of those companies would supply me just the heat breaks, that's another option.

                                        At least Slice Engineering sells the heatbreak as spare parts: https://www.sliceengineering.com/shop/heat-break

                                        Manuel
                                        Duet 3 6HC (v0.6) with RPi 4B on a custom Cartesian
                                        with probably always latest firmware/DWC (incl. betas or self-compiled)
                                        My Tool Collection

                                        deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • deckingman
                                          deckingman @wilriker last edited by deckingman

                                          @wilriker said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                                          @deckingman said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                                          Ref heat breaks [...] Also the Slice engineering Mosquito seemed to be a very efficient heat break design. If I could adapt my design to use either of those, and if either of those companies would supply me just the heat breaks, that's another option.

                                          At least Slice Engineering sells the heatbreak as spare parts: https://www.sliceengineering.com/shop/heat-break

                                          ahh, thanks for that.

                                          Edit- £35 USD a pop and I need 6! That's an expensive experiment.

                                          Ian
                                          https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                          https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                          wilriker 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • wilriker
                                            wilriker @deckingman last edited by wilriker

                                            @deckingman I never said they where cheap. 😁

                                            EDIT: But for test you could start with one.

                                            Manuel
                                            Duet 3 6HC (v0.6) with RPi 4B on a custom Cartesian
                                            with probably always latest firmware/DWC (incl. betas or self-compiled)
                                            My Tool Collection

                                            deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • deckingman
                                              deckingman @wilriker last edited by

                                              @wilriker said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                                              @deckingman I never said they where cheap. 😁

                                              EDIT: But for test you could start with one.

                                              True. Or I could try making something similar. Looks like a copper heat sink, copper nut with (probably) Titanium tube swaged in between. hmmmm........

                                              Ian
                                              https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                              https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • Phaedrux
                                                Phaedrux Moderator @deckingman last edited by

                                                @deckingman said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                                                @fma said in My multi input, multi material, mixing hot end:

                                                Did anyone aready try to inject ink in the melted zone to color the filament? It should be easier to mix CMYB inks rather than PLA...

                                                Kind of. IIRC, that was something that Adrian Bowyer or one of his students was looking into. If you look at the firmware, you'll see this https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M578_Fire_inkjet_bits. It seems to have died a death so maybe there were some problems that couldbn't be overcome.

                                                I think DiVinci sells a proprietary printer that uses inkjet coloring.

                                                Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                • fma
                                                  fma last edited by

                                                  Mu suggestion was to inject the ink in the melted chamber, not on the printed part.

                                                  But It may be difficult to maintain pressure, and it may mess up the print process...

                                                  Frédéric

                                                  deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                  • deckingman
                                                    deckingman @fma last edited by

                                                    @fma I don't know what the boiling point of printer ink is, but I'll bet it would likely just vaporise if you tried to inject it into the melt chamber at circa 200 deg C.

                                                    Ian
                                                    https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                                    https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                                    3DOeste 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • Phaedrux
                                                      Phaedrux Moderator last edited by

                                                      You'd think some of the pigment or dye might survive. What do they use to color the filament itself?

                                                      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                                      deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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