Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion

Veti

@Murloc992 said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

Now I have a WEIRD pattern that comes from the extruder motor:

are you sure its from the extruder? how does it look if you switch back to the old motor on the extruder?

Murloc992

I am sure, it's making pulsing noise even when spinning alone, without any plastic or idler engaged.. The old one doesn't pulse.. I have tried increasing microsctepping and disabling interpolation (nothing), reducing current(nothing), increasing current to maximum(heat increased only)..

This is the best I got:
2019-12-18 09.24.51.jpg
2019-12-18 09.24.58.jpg

The pattern is uniform on all sides.

Last time I had it was when I had too thin wires for my motor on an old printer and wires were heating up. But these are E3D cables, I haven't even changed the pins, tried different cables too and they are not heating up at all even at maximum current..

The one I had on my old printer was extreme.. and fixed after changing the extruder cabling.
2019-02-26 22.15.54.jpg

Murloc992

Maybe this could be related to low voltage? I use 12V. Also I got an advice to attempt to reduce microstepping of the extruder motor to 8 microsteps. I will lose the interpolation though.. Will this matter?

Need an expert here.

droftarts

I'd say that somewhere in your extruder drive, a gear is running eccentrically, or there's some other mechanical factor that's causing the the filament to speed up and slow down as it passes through the extruder. Is the stepper motor geared to the hobbed drive, or directly connected? I'd look if the gear on the motor shaft is running eccentrically, due to the hole being off centre, particularly if it's a geared extruder drive, as this would give the short frequency of over/under extrusion you're seeing. If you're using Chinese cloned gears (I think the Bear uses Bondtech BMG parts), this is quite likely!

Edit: Could also be caused by using very coarse hobbed drive.

Ian

Murloc992

@droftarts

This might be a possibility. I use a genuine Prusa MK2.5S that was torn apart and resurrected into a Full Bear + Bear Extruder + Duet + New motors(now).

The gears are genuine Bondtech, extruder is as direct as it gets (Bear Extruder), but I wonder how can it be eccentric.. With old motor I didn't have this.. Maybe a difference in flatspots? Or could it have happened if I tightened onto the flatspot a bit angled? Maybe a bent motor shaft (I hope not..)?

droftarts

@Murloc992 Quite possibly one of those! As it's so consistent, I'd think it has to be mechanical. If you can't spot anything obvious, maybe refit the old motor and revert extruder settings in config.g?

Ian

Murloc992

@droftarts

Every time I have to take the extruder of a prusa apart(including the wiring loom) I die a little inside, but I guess I will have to if I can't center the main gear..

Will need to upgrade the extruder wiring loom someday to use a PCB at the back, so the wiring loom will be independent..

Phaedrux

The fact that you can hear it pulsing makes me think it's the motor itself. Does it still sound like that if you run it free of any connection to the extruder gearing?

Murloc992

The motor shaft is straight, the gear is straight. Motor switch didn't help. All of them pulse. I will try reducing my microsteps to 8.. Maybe somebody knows about a TMC parameter called "Velocity"? I remember there's some register adjustments but I can't find it at the moment..

Murloc992

@Phaedrux It does, in fact, all the 0.9 degree motors I bought sound like that. Even without load.. I suspect that I need to adjust something in the drivers themselves. I used 1.8 degree steppers, now I got 0.9 degree ones.

Phaedrux

What is the power supply?

Murloc992

@Phaedrux Whatever came with Prusa MK2S originally.. 12V and I guess 20A? Maybe 15A, not sure.

Phaedrux

Can you post the results of an M122 command after doing a print?

Phaedrux

Using 8x microstepping probably won't do much other than make the motor noisier.

I use the same E3D motor for my Titan aero without such a pattern.

Murloc992

@Phaedrux

M122
=== Diagnostics ===
RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet version 2.04 running on Duet WiFi 1.02 or later
Board ID: 08DGM-9T6BU-FG3S4-6JKDD-3S06R-KBQ3D
Used output buffers: 3 of 24 (7 max)
=== RTOS ===
Static ram: 25680
Dynamic ram: 92824 of which 0 recycled
Exception stack ram used: 436
Never used ram: 12132
Tasks: NETWORK(ready,628) HEAT(blocked,1232) MAIN(running,1664) IDLE(ready,200)
Owned mutexes:
=== Platform ===
Last reset 00:06:26 ago, cause: software
Last software reset time unknown, reason: User, spinning module GCodes, available RAM 12132 bytes (slot 0)
Software reset code 0x0003 HFSR 0x00000000 CFSR 0x00000000 ICSR 0x0441f000 BFAR 0xe000ed38 SP 0xffffffff Task 0x4e49414d
Error status: 0
Free file entries: 9
SD card 0 detected, interface speed: 20.0MBytes/sec
SD card longest block write time: 10.7ms, max retries 0
MCU temperature: min 41.3, current 41.7, max 42.4
Supply voltage: min 12.1, current 13.0, max 13.5, under voltage events: 0, over voltage events: 0, power good: yes
Driver 0: ok, SG min/max 0/384
Driver 1: standstill, SG min/max 0/400
Driver 2: ok, SG min/max not available
Driver 3: ok, SG min/max 0/463
Driver 4: ok, SG min/max not available
Date/time: 2019-12-18 23:02:44
Cache data hit count 1365610563
Slowest loop: 117.87ms; fastest: 0.06ms
I2C nak errors 0, send timeouts 0, receive timeouts 0, finishTimeouts 0, resets 0
=== Move ===
Hiccups: 0, FreeDm: 157, MinFreeDm: 146, MaxWait: 135474ms
Bed compensation in use: mesh, comp offset 0.007
=== DDARing ===
Scheduled moves: 357, completed moves: 353, StepErrors: 0, LaErrors: 0, Underruns: 0, 0
=== Heat ===
Bed heaters = 0 -1 -1 -1, chamberHeaters = -1 -1
Heater 0 is on, I-accum = 0.7
Heater 1 is on, I-accum = 0.6
=== GCodes ===
Segments left: 1
Stack records: 2 allocated, 0 in use
Movement lock held by null
http is idle in state(s) 0
telnet is idle in state(s) 0
file is doing "G1 Z2.198 X134.775 Y95.225 E0.63527" in state(s) 0
serial is idle in state(s) 0
aux is idle in state(s) 0
daemon is idle in state(s) 0
queue is idle in state(s) 0
autopause is idle in state(s) 0
Code queue is empty.
=== Network ===
Slowest loop: 83.15ms; fastest: 0.00ms
Responder states: HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) FTP(0) Telnet(0) Telnet(0)
HTTP sessions: 1 of 8
- WiFi -
Network state is running
WiFi module is connected to access point 
Failed messages: pending 0, notready 0, noresp 0
WiFi firmware version 1.23
WiFi MAC address 80:7d:3a:15:2c:b0
WiFi Vcc 3.39, reset reason Turned on by main processor
WiFi flash size 4194304, free heap 25696
WiFi IP address 192.168.1.253
WiFi signal strength -44dBm, reconnections 0, sleep mode modem
Socket states: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
=== Filament sensors ===
Extruder 0 sensor: ok

I am doing a print right now, so here you go.

FYI the PSU IS overvolted to 12.5V.

@Phaedrux said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

Using 8x microstepping probably won't do much other than make the motor noisier.

Yup, didn't do anything.

Murloc992

@Phaedrux

This is after a full print:

12/18/2019, 11:58:36 PM	M122
=== Diagnostics ===
RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet version 2.04 running on Duet WiFi 1.02 or later
Board ID: 08DGM-9T6BU-FG3S4-6JKDD-3S06R-KBQ3D
Used output buffers: 1 of 24 (7 max)
=== RTOS ===
Static ram: 25680
Dynamic ram: 92824 of which 0 recycled
Exception stack ram used: 460
Never used ram: 12108
Tasks: NETWORK(ready,628) HEAT(blocked,1232) MAIN(running,1564) IDLE(ready,200)
Owned mutexes:
=== Platform ===
Last reset 00:28:34 ago, cause: software
Last software reset at 2019-12-18 23:29, reason: User, spinning module GCodes, available RAM 12124 bytes (slot 1)
Software reset code 0x0003 HFSR 0x00000000 CFSR 0x00000000 ICSR 0x0441f000 BFAR 0xe000ed38 SP 0xffffffff Task 0x4e49414d
Error status: 0
Free file entries: 10
SD card 0 detected, interface speed: 20.0MBytes/sec
SD card longest block write time: 39.2ms, max retries 0
MCU temperature: min 42.1, current 43.4, max 44.0
Supply voltage: min 11.6, current 13.0, max 13.6, under voltage events: 0, over voltage events: 0, power good: yes
Driver 0: standstill, SG min/max 0/1023
Driver 1: standstill, SG min/max 0/1023
Driver 2: standstill, SG min/max not available
Driver 3: standstill, SG min/max 0/1023
Driver 4: standstill, SG min/max not available
Date/time: 2019-12-18 23:58:33
Cache data hit count 4294967295
Slowest loop: 156.87ms; fastest: 0.06ms
I2C nak errors 0, send timeouts 0, receive timeouts 0, finishTimeouts 0, resets 0
=== Move ===
Hiccups: 0, FreeDm: 160, MinFreeDm: 114, MaxWait: 68278ms
Bed compensation in use: mesh, comp offset 0.005
=== DDARing ===
Scheduled moves: 0, completed moves: 0, StepErrors: 0, LaErrors: 0, Underruns: 0, 0
=== Heat ===
Bed heaters = 0 -1 -1 -1, chamberHeaters = -1 -1
Heater 0 is on, I-accum = 0.5
Heater 1 is on, I-accum = 0.5
=== GCodes ===
Segments left: 0
Stack records: 2 allocated, 0 in use
Movement lock held by null
http is idle in state(s) 0
telnet is idle in state(s) 0
file is idle in state(s) 0
serial is idle in state(s) 0
aux is idle in state(s) 0
daemon is idle in state(s) 0
queue is idle in state(s) 0
autopause is idle in state(s) 0
Code queue is empty.
=== Network ===
Slowest loop: 157.02ms; fastest: 0.00ms
Responder states: HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) FTP(0) Telnet(0) Telnet(0)
HTTP sessions: 1 of 8
- WiFi -
Network state is running
WiFi module is connected to access point 
Failed messages: pending 0, notready 0, noresp 0
WiFi firmware version 1.23
WiFi MAC address 80:7d:3a:15:2c:b0
WiFi Vcc 3.39, reset reason Turned on by main processor
WiFi flash size 4194304, free heap 25936
WiFi IP address 192.168.1.253
WiFi signal strength -41dBm, reconnections 0, sleep mode modem
Socket states: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
=== Filament sensors ===
Extruder 0 sensor: ok
12/18/2019, 11:56:54 PM	Finished printing file 0:/gcodes/Ripple_test_0.2mm_PET__19m.gcode, print time was 0h 26m

The print:
2019-12-19 00.01.56.jpg
2019-12-19 00.02.02.jpg
2019-12-19 00.02.07.jpg
2019-12-19 00.02.15.jpg
2019-12-19 00.02.28.jpg

The config:

; Configuration file for Duet WiFi (firmware version 2.03)
; executed by the firmware on start-up
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2.1.3 on Sat Nov 30 2019 21:16:45 GMT+0200 (Eastern European Standard Time)

; General preferences
G90                                       ; send absolute coordinates...
M83                                       ; ...but relative extruder moves
M550 P"Prusa Bear MK2.5"                              ; set printer name

; Network
M552 S1                                   ; enable network
M586 P0 S1                                ; enable HTTP
M586 P1 S0                                ; disable FTP
M586 P2 S0                                ; disable Telnet

; Drives
M569 P0 S1                                ; physical drive 0 goes forwards
M569 P1 S1                                ; physical drive 1 goes forwards
M569 P2 S1                                ; physical drive 2 goes forwards
M569 P3 S1                                ; physical drive 3 goes forwards
M569 P4 S1                                ; physical drive 4 goes forwards
M584 X0 Y1 Z2:4 E3                        ; set drive mapping
M671 X-36.0:290.0 Y110:110 S1             ; Set the Z motor relative locations correction 1mm
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1                   ; configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 X200.00 Y200.00 Z400.00 E276          ; set steps per mm
M566 X600.00 Y600.00 Z12.00 E150.00       ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X9000.00 Y9000.00 Z360.00 E7200.00   ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X1000.00 Y1000.00 Z200.00 E10000.00  ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X1200 Y1200 Z600 E1200 I30              ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30                                   ; Set idle timeout

; Axis Limits
M208 X0 Y-4 Z0 S1                         ; set axis minima
M208 X250 Y210 Z210 S0                    ; set axis maxima

; Endstops
M574 X1 Y1 S1                             ; set active high endstops
M574 Z1 S2                                ; set endstops controlled by probe

; Z-Probe
M558 P1 H0.85 F600 T12000 ;A3 S-0.03       ; set Z probe type to switch and the dive height + speeds
G31 P500 X23 Y5 Z0.625                    ; set Z probe trigger value, offset(original 0.875) and trigger height
M557 X24:228 Y6:210 S50                   ; define mesh grid

; Filament Sensor
M591 D0 P2 C3 S1

; Heaters
M307 H0 B0 S1.00                          ; disable bang-bang mode for the bed heater and set PWM limit
M305 P0 T100000 B4725 C7.060000e-8 R4700  ; set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 0
M143 H0 S120                              ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
M305 P1 T100000 B4725 C7.060000e-8 R4700  ; set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 1
M143 H1 S280                              ; set temperature limit for heater 1 to 280C

; Fans
M106 P0 S0 I0 F500 H-1                    ; set fan 0 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
M106 P1 S1 I0 F500 H1 T45                 ; set fan 1 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned on

; Tools
M563 P0 D0 H1 F0                          ; define tool 0
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0                           ; set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0                              ; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C

; Custom settings are not defined

; Miscellaneous
T0                                        ; select first tool

Maybe my acceleration/jerk values are bad now? This is the first time I do such a conversion. I switched from 1.8 degree to 0.9 degree on X/Y and E. The config is still for 1.8 degree motors except for the steps and currents. Z motors are still original.

Interesting observation: the movement seemed to pause A LOT. Especially between infill/perimeters and z-lifts/retractions. Felt very sluggish.

Phaedrux

@Murloc992 said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

M566 X600.00 Y600.00 Z12.00 E150.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X9000.00 Y9000.00 Z360.00 E7200.00 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X1000.00 Y1000.00 Z200.00 E10000.00 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)

Yes your Z and E axis settings are very conservative. this will make for slow retractions and layer changes / zhops.

The low XY jerk and acceleration don't seem to match up with the large amount of ringing you are seeing. Are your belts a little loose?

Here's what I use on my i3

M566 X800 Y800 Z60 E3000 P1				; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X12000 Y12000 Z900 E6000				; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X6000 Y6000 Z200 E5000				; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M204 P600 T3000						; Set accelerations (mm/s^2) for print and travel moves

JamesM

The pauses you speak of are most likely due to the jerk setting you have for your z-axis and extruder. If you are using pressure advance I would change the extruder instantaneous speed change (jerk) to something around 2000 and the Z somewhere in the 150-300 range.

Murloc992

@Phaedrux said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

@Murloc992 said in Prusa upgraded to duet, weird extrusion:

M566 X600.00 Y600.00 Z12.00 E150.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X9000.00 Y9000.00 Z360.00 E7200.00 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X1000.00 Y1000.00 Z200.00 E10000.00 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)

Yes your Z and E axis settings are very conservative. this will make for slow retractions and layer changes / zhops.

The low XY jerk and acceleration don't seem to match up with the large amount of ringing you are seeing. Are your belts a little loose?

Here's what I use on my i3
M566 X800 Y800 Z60 E3000 P1				; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X12000 Y12000 Z900 E6000				; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X6000 Y6000 Z200 E5000				; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M204 P600 T3000						; Set accelerations (mm/s^2) for print and travel moves

I will try your settings. My belts are not loose, just the right tension, printer moves more smoothly and silently with these motors I put on. Hopefully it's just a setting issue.

I will take a video of it printing in the evening.

No other variables except for the motors have changed.

Murloc992

@Phaedrux

So I used your settings, prints look identical, just that it printed WAY faster. Weird..

I just noticed that my X idler might be bigger than Y one.. I will investigate shortly..