slant lines
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It looks very much like the issue I had with my Nimble, periodic uneven extrusion. Something about the worm gear not engaging at the right angle.
If you print a cone or pyramid you should see some funny patterns instead of diagonal lines.
In my case it was probably related to that my mount was very slightly twisting the body of the extruder.
Have a look at https://drmrehorst.blogspot.com/2018/04/designing-low-cost-printable-worm-gear.html, or google "worm gear, periodic error, telescope" for more info on the topic.
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@arhi said in slant lines:
With flex3drive G5 + mellow -> got exactly the same lines. I changed 3 different extruder motors lines persist. Removed mellow and put e3dv6 and slant lines are gone. No clue why they were there, I never seen them before and I hope never to see them again.
I can certainly try with an e3d, but I'm on mosquito now... I hope it's not that with all that I spent for it
Thanks @bondus I'll check that too
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@bondus it is gone now, that mellow is totally useless for PLA and that particular printer (ender5) I purchased to use mostly (only) for PLA. Thermal images I took show that it will never print PLA properly so I moved it to a drawer, will use it on some other printer for ABS/PC/Nylon, it did print those pretty nicely. So, I can't test the cone. Good idea none the less. I did have a failure right after I removed the mellow nf crazy hotend, the flex shaft broke, it is possible I had issues with flex shaft and that fix was that I replaced the flex shaft (luckily I have dual flex3shaft that I split into 2 single G5) and not that I replaced the hotend, but I'm not returning mellow back in to test that theory. I was using the 1st ever shaft flex3drive was testing, waiting for the replacement one to arrive that is supposed to be custom made, thicker and in many ways better than this old pre-release one I have, we'll see. It would be very hard for worm on G5 to not fully engage the drive gear, the part is very sturdy (I printed from PETG) and has bearings everywhere, but since shaft failed few cm from the gear I assume there was issue where shaft was bending so I designed a "tower" on my carriage to grab the flex shaft again few cm after the G5 .. lemme illustrate
(ignore the mess of wires, that's still work in progress)
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@matt3o said in slant lines:
I can certainly try with an e3d, but I'm on mosquito now... I hope it's not that with all that I spent for it
Do not mistake mellow nf crazy hotend (that I used in this test) with mosquito, the only similarity between them is visual! Friend is using original with way worse setup than mine without a single issue with PLA and even without cooling
My mellow experience got him scared so he added cooling but it worked even before forced cooling (you just can't go too crazy with retraction as with any all metal) so if you are rocking original mosquito don't worry. Also check out the vent from @smece (my neigbor who introduced me to duet2eth btw) about his mellow https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/14161/mellow-nf-crazy-hotend?_=1582807022109 again, none of those issues are visible on the original mosquito. -
I recall similar issues with the zesty nimble being solved by changing the lubricant, I only looked into it since I recall some reports of flexible shaft having bad short lifespan on delta machines.
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@lord-binky said in slant lines:
I recall similar issues with the zesty nimble being solved by changing the lubricant, I only looked into it since I recall some reports of flexible shaft having bad short lifespan on delta machines.
Do not get me started on the issues with zesty
I am using this dual flex3drive for a couple of years. It was designed together with the first flex3drive system, and I never had issues. I used 1.75 and 3.0 hexagon hotends with the dual flex3drive system. I dismantled that and made two single G5 ones as I'm going to use toolchanger for the multimaterial print. No need for complexities of leveling 2 hotends any more. No idea if this slanted lines came from failing flex shaft, mellow or something else. But replaced flex shaft (old thin one, new sturdier one is in post) and the hotend and lines are gone. I did replace also (but before the lines) stepper motor I wanted to use as I put there a 400steps/revolution stepper that had too much inductance so could not rotate fast enough. I'm not lubricating my flex3drive at all
that is probably a mistake too. -
@matt3o mhh, gates belt and pulleys should be fine, I use them too. Do you use gates pulleys as idler's. I do, maybe normal bearings could be responsible.
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@arhi said in slant lines:
No idea if this slanted lines came from failing flex shaft, mellow or something else. But replaced flex shaft (old thin one, new sturdier one is in post) and the hotend and lines are gone
the problem is that I get those even when driving the g5 directly...
@CaiJonas said in slant lines:
Do you use gates pulleys as idler's
yeah sorry, I use gates idlers and pulleys
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@matt3o said in slant lines:
the problem is that I get those even when driving the g5 directly...
Did you try different flow rates (different speeds, different layer height) that do not change the slanted lines?
I was so worried when I got them, and then they went away, now I fear they will come back if I don't know what exactly caused them.
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@arhi said in slant lines:
Did you try different flow rates (different speeds, different layer height) that do not change the slanted lines?
yeah the slanted lines change based on speed and layer height, also steps/mm on the extruder.
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@matt3o, I had once exact same pattern of slanted lines. That was when I was trying the Zesty Nimble (also a flex drive extruder). I ended up switching to a direct drive extruder (BMG + 150g motor + V6 hotend) and am very happy with the results.
YMMV.
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Having looked at the links to worm gears, I am inclined to think that the slant lines are caused by uneven motion of the gear driven by the worm. In which case, the horizontal period of the lines should correspond to 1 rotation of the worm.
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I am still convinced your slant lines are from the worm gear.
It is very similar to the z-wobble you can get when using a lead screw, but it acts on extrusion instead of z layer height.
If anything is mounted even very slightly off-angle or out of position you will get periodic small errors.
A long lead screw mounted too poorly will bind up and warn us, the small worm in our case will not. -
@dc42 @bondus how can you guy's explain then that they are gone on my printer and I did not change the worm gear? Exactly the same G5 is on my printer, I replaced the flex shaft (old one broke) and the hotend?
p.s. I'm digging through my plastic trash to find those pieces with slanted lines so I can measure them, I keep all my plastic trash so not an easy task but I'll get back when I do.
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this was .2mm layer and looking at the edge it looks like the extrusion flow is pulsating
Looks like 1mm period height wise but looking it lengthwise:
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@dc42 yeah I'm pretty much convinced it's how the worm gear works and you can get lucky and have everything aligned perfectly and you wouldn't notice the artifacts... but I think that if you look close enough you'd see them anyway. I'll try with a standard extruder to discard any possible issue with the machine mechanics and report back.
@arhi thanks for digging out your old prints. My slant lines are definitely less bad then yours were, also I can really notice them only in 1-wall prints. On normal prints the problem translates into a fuzzy texture. I have a feeling that if you print a 1 wall cube at a decent speed and look close enough you'd notice some sort of slant lines even with the new shaft.
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@matt3o actually did a bunch of single wall prints to calibrate extruder and no slant lines with the new shaft and new hotend. I don't think I changed anything else.
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@arhi we would need to check the same model at the same speed I guess, because if it's not the extruder I wouldn't know what else
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That print is
- ABS (gray, one of the most unforgiving colors)
- 0.2mm layer
- 0.5mm nozzle
- 0.6mm extrusion width
- 4/4/4 (top/bottom/perimeters)
- 90% * 60mm/s outline speed
the lines are not as visible live as on the images I uploaded, that's with light coming under a very shallow angle so that effect is more prominent.
If you have a test case I'll be willing to try it out, I now have E3DV6 with .3mm mozzle on that G5 now, currently PLA loaded but I can easily switch to ABS/PETG/PC/PA
