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    Issues with pressure advance since RRF 3.4

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    • gloomyandyundefined
      gloomyandy @Argo
      last edited by

      @Argo Well there certainly seems to be a bulge on the top right corner in that test print. It also looks like you are using a different filament.... Is this using the same gcode as the RRF case becuase the seam looks like it may be in the bottom right corner, I thought it was in a different place in the RRF prints?

      Unfortunately I don't think you can run RRF with the same hardware setup, so again it is going to be hard to compare like for like....

      Argoundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Argoundefined
        Argo @gloomyandy
        last edited by

        @gloomyandy

        Bottom left and top right have a small bulge.
        PA was set to 0.05 which is a little bit too low. For RRF I need 0.08 to get similar results and the SuSl feature to switch between PA values whilst printing because PA 0.08 would cause defects all over the place which I'm still getting.

        The hardware / printer was the same except for the tool board. Unfortunately Klipper can't communicate with the 1LC that's why I had to make a mess in my room and needed 2m of cables or so to wire up the BTT tool board.
        I just wanted to rule out a hardware issue and show that is has to be somehow software related.

        Things we tried or can rule out:

        • extruder (I tried LGX and LDO Orbiter 2.0)
        • tool board (someone tried with and without in this thread)
        • nozzle (I switched from Bondtech CHT to E3D V6)
        • stepper motors (I switched the motor when switching from LGX to Orbiter 2.0)
        • RRF 3.3 and RRF3.4 (same results for me and others)

        I have another printer (bed slinger) that's also running a Duet 3 Mini with RRF 3.4. This printer has no issues with bulging corners.
        Could it be a issue with the CoreXY logic RRF uses?

        gloomyandyundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Heartleander81undefined
          Heartleander81 @gloomyandy
          last edited by

          @gloomyandy no, on Duet 3 6hc.

          I think that not only z but all axles brake harder. But I'll record it and open another topic and ask if Duet wanted it that way.

          gloomyandyundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • gloomyandyundefined
            gloomyandy @Argo
            last edited by

            @Argo Was the Klipper setup using the same speeds/accelerations as your RRF configuration? Have you printed the test using the same filament? It really is important to try and keep as many things the same if possible. I suspect that PA values do not map 1:1 between Klipper and RRF. I think if you really want to rule out hardware you probably need to connect the extruder directly to the main board (because that way you can use both Klipper and RRF with the same hardware), but I can uderstand why that would be a total pain....

            If you are going to test further I'd suggest getting the Klipper setup as good as you can (probably without input shaping for now). Then once you have what you think are two setups that are as close as possible to each other and you think there is a significant difference between them, ideally using the same filament, gcode settings etc, post photos of both along with the klipper and RRF configurations and slicer settings. Hopefully @jay_s_uk can have a go at reproducing the problem as he has a setup that can be switched between RRF and Klipper pretty easily. I think for this test it might be best just to use a single PA setting for RRF rather than the dynamic stuff that gives better results.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • gloomyandyundefined
              gloomyandy @Heartleander81
              last edited by

              @Heartleander81 Yes please start a new thread and provide details of what you think the change is, though honestly if there was a change in something like this I would have expected to see lots of comments about it already....

              jay_s_ukundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • jay_s_ukundefined
                jay_s_uk @gloomyandy
                last edited by

                @gloomyandy its probably the change between stealthchop being default to spreadcycle being default...

                and I better run some more tests. @Argo do we have a consensus on the test piece? your one with curves and a square in the middle or just a 40 x 40 x 2 cube?

                Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF. Assume I'm running whatever the latest beta/stable build is

                Argoundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • Argoundefined
                  Argo @jay_s_uk
                  last edited by

                  @jay_s_uk

                  I've made a more efficient version of the model to save time and filament:

                  bulgecheckV2.stl

                  I would set the seam to rear. Otherwise it'll be at one of the corners.

                  @gloomyandy
                  Yep it's a total pain as I would need to rewire all the chains. My Klipper test was just a dirty hang all wires along the frame to the top and to the tool head method. And during the test I held the wires to they don't get caught lol.

                  gloomyandyundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • gloomyandyundefined
                    gloomyandy @Argo
                    last edited by

                    @Argo Does that mean you can't easily run any further Klipper tests?

                    Argoundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Argoundefined
                      Argo @gloomyandy
                      last edited by

                      @gloomyandy

                      I can but not for weeks as it’s quite the mess here and not really safe to print unattended. 😄
                      I can print the test again with adjustments to flow and PA. I’ll post the results soon.
                      Inputshaping does not decrease print quality with Klipper as long you stay within the recommended acceleration settings.

                      gloomyandyundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • gloomyandyundefined
                        gloomyandy @Argo
                        last edited by

                        @Argo I'd rather you keep input shaping off with Klipper (and with RRF) as that just simplifies things (as it does seem to have an impact on RRF).

                        Argoundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Argoundefined
                          Argo @gloomyandy
                          last edited by

                          @gloomyandy

                          Bumped PA up from 0.05 to 0.052. I think maybe 0.054 could be the optimal value.
                          Decreased flow a tiny bit to improve top layer quality.

                          image2.jpg
                          (Klipper)

                          The result is quite comparable to what I get with RRF with "dynamic PA" (0.05 -> 0.08).
                          Sorry that I had to switch color. The bright green is empty after tons of testing.

                          gloomyandyundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • gloomyandyundefined
                            gloomyandy @Argo
                            last edited by

                            @Argo No problem, could you post your klipper and slicer settings (maybe post the gcode file you used with Klipper as that will have a lot of the details in it).

                            Argoundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • Argoundefined
                              Argo @gloomyandy
                              last edited by

                              @gloomyandy

                              BulgeCheck.gcode

                              For Klipper itself nothing fancy.
                              square corner velocity = 5 mm/s
                              max feedrate = 350 mm/s
                              max acceleration = 5000 mm/s

                              Slicer speed settings:
                              9bd79d70-e1af-4b57-bedb-6a01d69502b7-image.png

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • gnydickundefined
                                gnydick
                                last edited by

                                Been following this thread for a while now, 🎧 , and wondering if there's been any concrete, official update?

                                Argoundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Argoundefined
                                  Argo @gnydick
                                  last edited by Argo

                                  @gnydick

                                  Latest official statement is that the Duet team can't reproduce the issue so I assume there won't be a fix. That's why I'm glad I found a partial fix by using Super Slicer extrusion roles:
                                  https://forum.duet3d.com/post/298231
                                  At the moment I'm using 0.052 PA for every role except perimeter which use 0.075 PA (PLA filament).

                                  CCS86undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • CCS86undefined
                                    CCS86 @Argo
                                    last edited by

                                    @Argo said in Issues with pressure advance since RRF 3.4:

                                    @gnydick

                                    Latest official statement is that the Duet team can't reproduce the issue so I assume there won't be a fix. That's why I'm glad I found a partial fix by using Super Slicer extrusion roles:
                                    https://forum.duet3d.com/post/298231
                                    At the moment I'm using 0.052 PA for every role except perimeter which use 0.075 PA (PLA filament).

                                    As you found, that isn't great though, since the change in PA causes the printer to dwell.

                                    Argoundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • Phaedruxundefined
                                      Phaedrux Moderator
                                      last edited by

                                      From my own testing a while ago I had noticed a difference in extruder jerk when I was getting some bulging corners. After retuning E jerk and PA it improved.

                                      Has anyone noticed a difference in E jerk?

                                      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                      gnydickundefined Heartleander81undefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • gnydickundefined
                                        gnydick @Phaedrux
                                        last edited by

                                        @Phaedrux possibly. It at least seems to be very sensitive to it. Right now, with even just a low poly curved surface, each segment is ~1.5mm long, I get a bulge at every direction change.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Heartleander81undefined
                                          Heartleander81 @Phaedrux
                                          last edited by

                                          @Phaedrux

                                          Yes, definitely.
                                          If I increase or decrease the extruder pressure, I can influence whether there is more or less overshoot. But I can't get rid of it completely.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Argoundefined
                                            Argo @CCS86
                                            last edited by

                                            @CCS86

                                            Yes it’s far from optimal. But at least parts are usable again. Though I had Klipper flashed and it hasn’t the flaws I’m not really into using Klipper. Just a personal preference. But wouldn’t wonder if someone switches because of that.

                                            Heartleander81undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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