Enclosed printer water cooled motors
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@jens55
This is it. There’s other versions of it but just wondering if this would even work to cool the motors.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC12V-108W-Aluminum-Water-Cooling-Electronic-Peltier-Refrigeration-Freezer-S-/174286774487 -
An interesting gadget. I don't think I have ever seen a peltier unit with that much cooling. Thanks for posting the link!
You realize that the price is only for the peltier unit and possibly the water cooling block, right? no coolant motor, no fan, no heat exchanger. You will need to build your own mounting arrangement for the peltier to the stepper motor.
I have long term plans for water cooling on steppers and a hot end but have not done it before so I can't tell you how well it works. My concern has always been how to couple the cooling effect into the motors. The end plate is a logical spot but in terms of overall surface area it is a bit small but if you can pull a lot of heat away it can only help.
Having said that, the capacity of this element seems excessive for a small stepper like one usually sees on a 3d printer.
Just as a big warning to anybody contemplating playing with stepper motors, I have heard it being said that you can screw up the magnetcs royally (as in 'totally') if you pull the rotating element out of the motor. I do not know if you can pull the end cap (leaving everything else alone) without causing issues.
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dyze makes nema17 water blocks
https://dyzedesign.com/2018/02/enp-water-blocks-3d-printers/
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@Veti said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:
dyze makes nema17 water blocks
https://dyzedesign.com/2018/02/enp-water-blocks-3d-printers/
Thanks!
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I had a look on ebay and peltier junctions are way more powerful then I remember. Still, they are only 2 to 10% efficient. This might be ok in certain critical areas but I don't think it makes sense in 3D printers. Stepper motors are good to about 80C (although I would recommend 60C as a conservative figure) and so there is plenty of temperature differential between ambient cooled water and the stepper motor. It makes more sense to use water cooling to suck any heat above 60C away from the steppers.
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Check out Proper Printing on YouTube. He's built a custom printer from a creality machine, fully enclosed and water cooled.
Follow my adventures in 3D Printing, laser cutting and electronics. https://linktr.ee/Rushmere3D
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There is a company that makes stepper motors capable of withstanding higher temperatures and which should work inside a heated enclosure without needing to be actively cooled. It was mentioned in the VRRF hosted by Slice Engineering but I can't remember any other details. Might be worth investigating.......
Edit. But one thing I do know is that if you make or buy aluminium motor mounts and bolt them to the frame, the entire mount and frame become a giant heat sink which helps tremendously in keeping motors cool. I used to have both heat sinks and fans on all my motors when they were fitted to plastic mounts, but after fitting the aluminium mounts, I removed those and the motors still run cooler. I run Nema 23s at 2.8Amps and they are barely warm to the touch. I'd estimate no more than 10 degC above ambient.
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My latest core-XY is designed with all its motors outside the insulated chamber, away from the heat.
With only x2 small openings on X/Y for the belt to come out and back in again,
and the three lead screws coming up through the base of the chamber, chamber at chamber temp and motors at as near as dammit ambient. -
@CaLviNx said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:
My latest core-XY is designed with all its motors outside the insulated chamber, away from the heat.
With only x2 small openings on X/Y for the belt to come out and back in again,
and the three lead screws coming up through the base of the chamber, chamber at chamber temp and motors at as near as dammit ambient.Good idea. I'm thinking of doing exactly the same with a printer I'm planning. But I'm also toying with the idea of building a conveyor type, "infinite Y" build platform. I don't think anyone has done that inside a heated chamber - could be my next challenge........
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@deckingman said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:
Good idea. I'm thinking of doing exactly the same with a printer I'm planning. But I'm also toying with the idea of building a conveyor type, "infinite Y" build platform. I don't think anyone has done that inside a heated chamber - could be my next challenge........
I know not everyone uses Facbook, but I just saw a guy post on there who had built a belt Y axis printer from a re-purposed running machine.
For one in a heated chamber I think the main challenge would be to safely get the print to transition from the chamber to the atmosphere and still keep the heat in the chamber.
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the voron ldo motors are rated to 180C. (130 chamber)
https://www.filastruder.com/products/ldo-stepper-motors-all-types
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@Veti said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:
the voron ldo motors are rated to 180C. (130 chamber)
https://www.filastruder.com/products/ldo-stepper-motors-all-types
LDO - that was the make I was trying to think of. Are you sure about the spec? I could be wrong but I thought the winding temp was 130 deg C meaning a chamber temp of 80 deg C.
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@deckingman said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:
I could be wrong but I thought the winding temp was 130 deg C
check the link. there are 4 high temperature motors with a winding temp of 180C
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@CaLviNx said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:
I know not everyone uses Facbook,..............
That's me - I don't "do" any social media, including Facbook or even Facebook
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@Veti said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:
@deckingman said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:
I could be wrong but I thought the winding temp was 130 deg C
check the link. there are 4 high temperature motors with a winding temp of 180C
OK cool - I stand corrected.
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@Veti
That's the insulation class temperature. Without knowing the magnetic materials inside the motor it's hard to tell what's the curie point where the motors completely demagnetize. Most magnets also start losing power above 80C so it's best to keep their temperarures as low as possible. -
What specific kind of failure does applying a heatsink or water jacket prevent?
Does a heatsink or water jacket cool the rotor where the magnets are located and separated from the stators by an air gap?
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They prevent the loss of magnetism that happens in ferromagnets when temperature rises above their max working temperature point, until it reaches its curie temperature and completely demagnetizes.
Most motor magnets have the working temperature limit somewhere in the 80-160 range. Its never really stated properly and I wouldn't trust Chinese motors to use the proper materials.
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@deckingman said in Enclosed printer water cooled motors:
That's me - I don't "do" any social media, including Facbook or even Facebook
.The spelling was intentional....
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@Veti I've looked at the dyze cooling blocks but they only cover a small surface area of the motor. I saw this https://www.researchgate.net/figure/a-Stepper-motor-cooling-shroud-installed-on-a-NEMA-17-stepper-motor-b-Computational_fig7_311666362 and i thought instead of running air through that heat shroud, run water and cool it further with a peltier. I think it looks promising as a better method of keeping the motors evenly cool.
