Gcode documentation change
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@droftarts, looking for example, in this page, it has a link to M150. Should that link should go directly to the documentation of M150 where the various arguments are explained? This is probably the user intention in most cases they click on that link.
https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Neopixel_and_DotStar_LEDs
In addition to that, the 'isolated' mode in each each operation is documented in an isolated page doesn't provide IMO as good user experience as the previous page . Kind of looking at the Mona Lisa through a keyhole. You can't search for topics that cross commands, related command are not visible (e.g. G90, G91).
I understand the need/desire to improve, and I understand that sometimes our muscle memory takes some time to adapt to changes, but this one feels as a regression functionality. This is not the end of the world, and we will 'survive' it but you may want to reconsider.
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@zapta Hardcoded links to the old page are throughout the documentation and forum. Providing a heading in the new page to act as a target for those links, with a longer summary and link to the full individual gcode entry underneath, is the best we can do at the moment. When/if we get around to updating all the links on Dozuki (not going to happen on the forum), they'll point at the individual page.
I understand everyone's reservations, I feel them too. We're looking at ways to improve searchability and visibility; it's early days. Unfortunately, we can't go back to the single page.
I would say that often when I do a ctrl-F search on the Gcode page, it's for something simple like 'stepper' or 'acceleration', and I barely look at the main frame; the highlights in the Table of Contents are enough to find what I'm looking for. If I can have some solid examples of searches that don't work on the new page, I can update the short descriptions, even if it's just to add 'Related: G91' to G90.
And don't forget the Gcode by function page! https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/GCodes_index_by_function
Ian
TronXY X5S with Duet 3 MB6HC and Roto toolboard : Cartesian bed-slinger with Duet 3 Mini 5+ WiFi and 1LC : RRP Fisher Delta v1 with Duet 2 Maestro : Polargraph with Duet 2 WiFi
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@droftarts said in Gcode documentation change:
we can't go back to the single page.
What was the problem with the old page, too large to load in a browser? What size was it? I guess that if it's technically 100% impossible (is it?) then there is not point in complaining
If I can have some solid examples of searches that don't work on the new page
Is the old page still exist somewhere so we can find examples that worked well there but not in the new model?
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@droftarts said in Gcode documentation change:
To help this, here is an html document of the old page: Gcode - Duet3D.html.txt (download it and delete the .txt on the end of the file name, then it should open in your browser).
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Thanks @t3p3tony. The file is less than 1M and downloaded quickly and loaded easily into my browser.
As an example, I tried a page search search for 'acceleration' and the new model didn't hit M593 and M669.
When you search the single page, you know that it will hit every mentioning of it. With the new summaries page, it will hit only if that page was manually curated properly, so it reduces the confident in the search.
(If there is a hard technical constraint that prohibits the single page than I understand, that's psychics and we just need to live with it, but if not, please reconsider).
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We just talked about this in our standup and agreed that we'd rather it all be on a single page for many of the same reasons already listed. It's an invaluable resource..!
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For those worried about losing the searchability of a single page: have you tried using the dozuki search feature?
Searching for, as an example from this thread, "acceleration," finds all the appropriate pages, and more.
What is missing from the individual G-Code page listings, in the dozuki search results, is a description of the contents of the page. Not sure why that doesn't appear, but the search function works very well to find all the g-codes that reference acceleration.
*not actually a robot
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Is the old page still exist somewhere so we can find examples that worked well there but not in the new model?
You can access the last point in the page's history before it was broken up by adding
?revisionid=5349to the url, like so:https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode?revisionid=5349
I'll be using the locally downloaded version, but that bookmark will be useful if people need it on mobile devices etc while we figure out a good solution here.
Reviewing the initial reasoning for this change, I'm really not understanding any of them.
As far as slow loading times on either side... you've replaced a single page with all of the information on every gcode that measured 1.57mb (transferred/compressed) with a page of no information and just links that weighs 1.37mb, and every individual gcode page the user has to load weighs 1.34mb.
How does this change improve load times for either the server or the client, am I missing something? It seems to be significantly worse by my measurements. Am i fundamentally misunderstanding this?As far as difficulty editing, If i were editing this I would prefer a monolithic document that i could Ctrl-F around in, rather than having to manage literally hundreds of individual pages. I managed a wordpress site for a few years, I would have lost my mind trying to do that. I can see that the editing window is very small, but you can Ctrl-A, paste it into something like vscode. It can fill up your whole screen, its color coded because vscode recognizes markdown, you get a minimap to help you navigate... thats how i would do it.
As far as getting lost while you scroll... i'm more concerned about getting lost in all of the different tabs i have open now with different gcodes. Yes it is a long document, but it is also very easy to search around and find what youre looking for between Ctrl-F and the index on the side.
Just my 2c.
Seth
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@bot said in Gcode documentation change:
I rarely use the dozuki search because the results are kind of opaque and you need to enter each item to get an idea what is inside. Does it have a next-next mode where each click takes you to the page/location of next result?
This one provides more context but still not as functional as the one page search.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fduet3d.dozuki.com+acceleration&atb=v88-4_g&ia=web
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Thanks for everyone's feedback. One of the downsides of having a solution like Dozuki is that there are some aspects that are out of our direct control. One of those was having such a large and frequently accessed page was an issue for Dozuki. I am not sure of the architecture reasons behind why it was an issue but it was, not specifically for the file size transferred (so maybe for the server resource in rendering? not sure).
There have been some good suggestions on here on how to improve this (client side aggregation, related gcodes on individual pages, having a single global ToC, for the individual gcode pages, adding keywords to help search on the summary page).
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@bot said in Gcode documentation change:
What is missing from the individual G-Code page listings, in the dozuki search results, is a description of the contents of the page. Not sure why that doesn't appear, but the search function works very well to find all the g-codes that reference acceleration.
Ah, useful! It's because no summary has been put in for the individual pages. That's something I can fix. I've added them to G0 and G1, and now they show up. I'll add more when we've decided what to include.
@royal32 said in Gcode documentation change:
I can see that the editing window is very small, but you can Ctrl-A, paste it into something like vscode. It can fill up your whole screen, its color coded because vscode recognizes markdown, you get a minimap to help you navigate... thats how i would do it.
Thanks, I had a quick look at Visual Studio Code; I have been using BBEdit (on Mac) for editing large documents. Unfortunately, Dozuki's markdown version is not standard, so it doesn't preview nicely on VSCode (or BBEdit), so there's no major improvement. VSCode looks good for other reasons, though!
@zapta said in Gcode documentation change:
As an example, I tried a page search search for 'acceleration' and the new model didn't hit M593 and M669.
Thanks, I'll look at this. Summaries could include keywords, eg for M593 it could include "DAA, acceleration, frequency, damping" etc. 'Acceleration' in M669 (Polar kinematics Maximum turntable acceleration parameter) might just be a bit too esoteric to count as a keyword. Got to draw the line somewhere... Interestingly, M669 does show up in a Dozuki search for 'acceleration'.
Ian
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What Browser was this update tested on ?? because personally I normally use a VERY restricted version of Microsoft Edge, with ALL the social claptrap etc removed...
Whereas in the 'old' version I could quickly get answers for any queries e.g. M586 network, but this 'new' version is a steaming pile of shite, where all I see a brief description of what M586 supposedly controls, but there are no links to any additional info etc. and this goes for ALL the G/M codes
Julian,
Old goat, learning new things….
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@dr_ju_ju the G/M code at the beginning of the summary line is a link to the full entry.
Ian
TronXY X5S with Duet 3 MB6HC and Roto toolboard : Cartesian bed-slinger with Duet 3 Mini 5+ WiFi and 1LC : RRP Fisher Delta v1 with Duet 2 Maestro : Polargraph with Duet 2 WiFi
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@droftarts not for me it isn't.....
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TronXY X5S with Duet 3 MB6HC and Roto toolboard : Cartesian bed-slinger with Duet 3 Mini 5+ WiFi and 1LC : RRP Fisher Delta v1 with Duet 2 Maestro : Polargraph with Duet 2 WiFi
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I don't know what has changed this morning, if anything, but I now see links to individual explanation pages from the GCode dictionary page (https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_G_commands), which at least gets me started in finding the info I need, but WHY are there no return links, to the dictionary page, on each of explanation pages ????
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@droftarts, here is another example, searching the main gcode page for 'StealthChop' or 'Stealth' or 'Chop' brings nothing.
https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode
Searching that page for M569 doesn't help either since it has 8 entries which should be opened and searched individually, not to mention finding other commands that may mention 'stealthchop'.
I miss the old times.
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I have noticed a fairly substantial change in my ability to use the GCODE page after this change.
As I try to help people in this forum, I search the GCODE page for things like:
- current (Which Mxxx sets motor current.
- idle (Which Mxxx sets the idle current)
- endstop (how are endstops configured)
- pullup (How are pullups configured for I/O pins)
- leveling (which Mxxx are involved in bed/mesh leveling)
None of those get me where I have to be to help Duet users with their problems and I have to use duckduckgo.
Which potentially reduces my ability to help your customers solve their problems.
I wasn't opposed to the change in the beginning, but as I use the page more and more, I'm now feeling the issues of just having one-line summaries.
I like to help people, but when the burden gets too high, I ignore their problems and move on to something easier for me to do.
SeemeCNC Rostock Max V3 converted to V3.2 with a Duet2 Ethernet Firmware 3.2 and SE300
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@alankilian I've half a mind of creating a "classic" GCodes library page which directly includes the individual entries, but I don't want to cause issues with the dozuki.
@droftarts if the gcode entries would be properly linked under "Gcodes/" rather than on the wiki root I could create a local copy every now and then for easy access. Since they do reside at the top level, this is more tedious since I'd need to parse the main GCodes page for links to get local copies.
