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    What's my problem?

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved
    Tuning and tweaking
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    • gnydickundefined
      gnydick
      last edited by

      Pictured, identical gcode run through 2 different printers.

      Blue: voron v0.1 with klipper : out of the box, zero tuning

      Silver: railcore with duet 2 with bmg extruder with a 5-6cm Bowden path between the bottom of the bmg and the deep bottom inside my e3d volcano, so maybe only 2cm exposed.

      I've tuned PA on my duet, but doesn't seem to help.

      PXL_20220211_020043117.jpg

      baird1faundefined alankilianundefined engikeneerundefined zaptaundefined 4 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • baird1faundefined
        baird1fa @gnydick
        last edited by

        @gnydick both are very nice prints to me. Makes me want a voron

        gnydickundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • alankilianundefined
          alankilian @gnydick
          last edited by

          @gnydick I see dramatically different print results when using identical settings with different filaments.

          Posting one image of a single GCODE file printed with different filaments doesn't really point the finger at anything in particular.

          SeemeCNC Rostock Max V3 converted to V3.2 with a Duet2 Ethernet Firmware 3.2 and SE300

          gnydickundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • gnydickundefined
            gnydick @alankilian
            last edited by

            @alankilian I'm sorry, I thought the jaggies on the print on the right we're obvious.

            It looks lower resolution, I'm assuming because the pulsing of the filament to deal with changing directions wasn't dealt with as well.

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            • gnydickundefined
              gnydick @baird1fa
              last edited by

              @baird1fa thank you, that's very nice to say. I highly recommend a voron, but go for a kit from LDO. Self sourcing is a nightmare and the other kits are hit and miss.

              I will say the assembly instructions, though extremely high quality, detailed, etc., are just nowhere near the best way to assemble it.

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              • rjenkinsgbundefined
                rjenkinsgb
                last edited by

                What slicer are you using?

                I found I got very different quality between the old Cura version (that works immaculately with my old Marlin-based printer) and Prusaslicer, on my Duet-based machines.

                With prusaslicer (Bot's version, to be precise) properly set up to match each Duet board / machine parameters, the surface detail is vastly better on the Duets, but it does not support the older machine at all.

                Robert J.

                Printers: Overlord pro, Kossel XL+ with Duet 6HC and "Frankentron", TronXY X5SA Pro converted to E3D toolchange with Duet 6HC and 1LC toolboards.

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                • engikeneerundefined
                  engikeneer @gnydick
                  last edited by

                  @gnydick looks like you've got some ringing/ghosting on the railcore. You can see it on the circle quite clearly, and that's probably what is causing the pulses on the overhangs.

                  Have you got input shaping enabled on both? I'd assume that there are default setting for the voron knocking about, but maybe not on your Duet?

                  There's probably some mechanical impact too. The voron v0.1 is quite small and lightweight so is probably less likely to have ringing issues than the larger railcore with longer rail spans, belt paths etc

                  E3D TC with D3Mini and Toolboards.
                  Home-built CoreXY, Duet Wifi, Chimera direct drive, 2x BMG, 300x300x300 build volume
                  i3 clone with a bunch of mods

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • gnydickundefined
                    gnydick
                    last edited by

                    Sorry, yeah, I realize it's ringing, but the settings, speed, etc were all pretty gentle, so I'm not sure why I'm getting it.

                    It's been happening for a while and I just can't seem to get rid of it unless I print REALLY REALLY slowly.

                    engikeneerundefined rjenkinsgbundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • engikeneerundefined
                      engikeneer @gnydick
                      last edited by

                      @gnydick are you using DAA or input shaping at all? That can help a lot, especially as it seems a very constant natural frequency.

                      Otherwise, try playing with your jerk and accel settings. Doesn't matter too much how fast your peak speed is on a long straight, if your jerk or accel are too high it will still not go round corners smoothly. If you're controlling this from your print file, you may be accidentally overriding the limits you've set in config depending on how your slicer does it.

                      It may also partly be a limitation of the railcore? I'm not familiar with the design myself but its definitely one to consider especiallyif trying to do side-by-side comparisons of prints/settings

                      E3D TC with D3Mini and Toolboards.
                      Home-built CoreXY, Duet Wifi, Chimera direct drive, 2x BMG, 300x300x300 build volume
                      i3 clone with a bunch of mods

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • rjenkinsgbundefined
                        rjenkinsgb @gnydick
                        last edited by

                        Another thought - Are your XY belts tight enough? Any play or "give" could cause problems.

                        Robert J.

                        Printers: Overlord pro, Kossel XL+ with Duet 6HC and "Frankentron", TronXY X5SA Pro converted to E3D toolchange with Duet 6HC and 1LC toolboards.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • zaptaundefined
                          zapta @gnydick
                          last edited by

                          The ringing on the right side (the much larger printer) is very visible. Did you try to input shaping it?

                          I am also not sure if RRF's input shaping is as mature yet as Klipper's. I think it's still in beta (?).

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • gnydickundefined
                            gnydick
                            last edited by

                            I don't have input shaping on, never have. I've watched the printer in telephoto slow motion and I'm 99% sure there is no wobble, whipping, or other movement. I think it's really the extruder.

                            But I will definitely check these other things.

                            Re: input shaping: what am I to do, it's not like the X and Y have the same frequency, so, which do I pick?

                            I also don't have any input shaping enabled on the voron.

                            zaptaundefined rjenkinsgbundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • zaptaundefined
                              zapta @gnydick
                              last edited by

                              @gnydick said in What's my problem?:

                              I don't have input shaping on

                              Also no input shaping on your Voron V0.1? I assumed you do.

                              gnydickundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • gnydickundefined
                                gnydick @zapta
                                last edited by

                                @zapta nope, I don't have accelerometers, so I can't configure it.

                                zaptaundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • oliofundefined
                                  oliof
                                  last edited by oliof

                                  two remarks:

                                  • you can print the ringing tower and measure the ripple frequency to tune input shaping. Works both for klipper and RepRapFirmware.

                                  • a friend of mine figured some vibrations on their railcore at certain speeds and has to print slower or faster for those to go away. so they either print at 25mm/sec max or at 120mm/sec min. Might be worth investigating.

                                  <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

                                  gnydickundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • oliofundefined
                                    oliof
                                    last edited by

                                    as to picking x or y: the vibrations for X and Y should be similar on a corexy setup -- differences point toward uneven tension in the belt system. If the difference isn't too big you will be able to pick either peak frequency and at worst will have to choose an Input Shaping algorithm with a damping factor.

                                    <>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>

                                    gnydickundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • zaptaundefined
                                      zapta @gnydick
                                      last edited by

                                      @gnydick, it's possible that the V0 just has a more stiff and accurate movement system, because of its smaller size.

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                                      • Phaedruxundefined
                                        Phaedrux Moderator
                                        last edited by

                                        Don't take this as me telling you to get help elsewhere, as that's not the case, but there is a Railcore discord server. Perhaps asking at the source might be useful. Maybe it's a common problem or someone has seen it already.

                                        https://discord.gg/Sy569Hq

                                        Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                        gnydickundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • gnydickundefined
                                          gnydick @oliof
                                          last edited by

                                          @oliof Thanks for the info. Yeah, I've noticed that too, but never took the time to find the thresholds.

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                                          • gnydickundefined
                                            gnydick @oliof
                                            last edited by

                                            @oliof Thanks for the help. Are there any simple ways to determine which algorithm and settings?

                                            oliofundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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