Posts made by dwuk3d

@o_lampe I do a lot of my long prints without heat on a Bambulab cool plate - mainly to allow for long overnight or out of the house pauses. Bed adhesion for PLA is actually so good I can't use it for small fragile things.

I'm going to make mine heated though from the outset - and just use the standard SOVOL square build plate - perhaps with the corners chopped off if it won't quite rotate.

I notice now on relooking at the video that he has a very wide brim around the chimney - and some of his other prints look ok - so I wonder if the artifscts you noticed are due to wobble because of the very thing chimney.

When printing the sails of my very tall Sea Cloud model (see youtube) I had to add braces between the sails at a few heights to stop the wobble.

You are right about that filament hiding print quality defects - I was actually thinking of purchasing 3 rolls of it for my printer for when I get on to some big parallel prints - as I thought it might hide the joints a bit.

Re printing in the centre - I think it is possible - but just extremely slow. I got the impression that the non planer solution demonstrated is pretty slow - even for the outer parts.

Some inspiration for adding further features to my printer after looking at this very impressive video

https://youtu.be/M51bMMVWbC8?si=kyLhSQ2Y6XhIFs34

It does look very impressive and I can't imagine how that benchy stayed upright when it was just being held in place by that tiny chimney and filament was be added to the benchy in a horizontal direction,

I'm going to try and simulate his printer with his slicer in blender - should hopefully result in some interesting animations.

What interests me probably more than the non planer aspects - is the concept of printing onto the side rather than top of objects - which I think could bring a lot of efficiencies to multi colour printing.

As you only really need the colours on the outer surface - and so would be able to print most of the structure of an object in a single colour like white - and then colour it in with a few passes of the different colours applied to the top, bottom and sides.

Perhaps using a multiaxis printer like in the video, or maybe with something to rotate the print around in more dimensions instead.

I'm going to be adding rotary movement as the next stage of my multi head SV08.

This video inspired me to maybe allow at least one of the print heads to pivot up to a bit of an angle - rather than always facing downwards - and then use it to print onto the side of objects - rotated to the appropriate angle.

Another issue I have is with the probe moving a bit - I've changed a few things - but it is still not perfect. I have been considering changing from using a servo to a stepper - I think a fairly big Nema17 might hold the probe more steady in the Y direction or I could try a Nema23. The magnet is probably better at holding it in place in the Z direction. I might try also trying so somehow interlock something into the indentation of the magnet when it pulls down - to also prevent Y movement.

Re rotary bed
The next challenge after that is bed coverage by each print head.

My current thinking is once per layer rotate the bed 90, 180 and 270 degrees. - I will be rotating a square rather than round bed.

That should allow all 3 heads to access the whole bed, plus allow parallel printing.

If i only rotate it like that and then rotate it back again then I won't have any wiring issues - but I would also like to try making in continuously rotate capable like yours - so that I can do 3 headed vase mode prints.

I think i will need a 4 way slip ring for this capable of mains power - any thoughts on this.

I suppose I could go 2 way - just for the bed heater - and try using something like an IR temperature sensor for temperature - but not sure whether the PWM or whatever stuff would handle that.

Made a bit of progress on alignment issues - i think its a dimensional accuracy issue - and may actually be a problem with my Dual Markforged kinematics when moving in the X and Y direction at the same time.

Or might be due to the backlash compensation I put on the old V axis - which is now the X axis (W) on my third toolhead - which is the one that seems to be squashing up its dimensions a little bit when compared to the other print heads.

i need to take a break from this printer for a few days - so will address the issue later,

One big discovery I did make though while trying to resolve this - is that what I previously thought were strange hangs on things like M598's, M400's or M596's - which led me to completely stop using M598's were probably more like the fact that echo commands sometimes seem to stop working on forked multiple motion systems.

I put in loads of echo's before and after commands thinking I could see where control on each file was hanging - but worked out today that processing was actually still running in loops and commands quite a long way further into the file - usually on G4 500's in loops.

When this happen's M122 still seems to tell you the G4 or other command each file is currently on - so I have changed every G4 to have a slightly different millisecond delay time value - so that it is then possible from the M122 to work out which delay loop each forked file is currently executing.

Might start using global variables to trace current position - rather than echo's to see if that works more reliably.

Nb/ I am still on 3.5.4 - will test out some of this on 3.6 at some point too.

@o_lampe yes you are right about needing to sync layer times.

I will probably do something symmetrical like a sphere first - but to really demonstrate the concept I want to do a really complex non symmetrical shape, with layer times syncronised by slowing down some of the heads at appropriate times.

Will want to do this on normal segmented parallel prints too - to avoid heads going idle and needing to be cooled down, parked, primed and reheated as much as possible,

One of my earlier youtube shorts demonstrated the multi head vase mode principle.

Also Nathan Builds Robots massive printer does something like I want to do - although his design is restricted to only having in and out and up and down on each head - so would suffer from the 'centre' speed issues you mention.

@o_lampe Can't find the @CNCModeller post - although I suspect you are talking about rotary printers - with the rotary motion is one of the Axis - and when you are right in the centre you need to speed the spinning up very fast to get the same amount of motion as you would get from the edge.

I'm not proposing that - I am still proposing a normal XY type AXIS - just having rotary as mainly a way of moving parts of the bed to different places within the print head envelope to allow better coverage / more parallel printing.

Continuous rotation would be nice too - to allow things like parallel vase mode prints.

@o_lampe Thanks - yes some of the tools did start priming a bit early - I need to tweak my timing algorithm - its based on calculating the required delay within the 20 seconds preheat window, then just kicking off reheat and then prime as soon as heat up is complete. I should delay prime until the last few seconds. - also the 20 seconds pre-heat the slicer sends isn't always completely accurate - might just be a bug, or might be that I haven't got the printer completely configured exactly as its defined in the slicer in terms of speeds and accelerations.

I was really pleased though at how quick the tool changes are coming - will be even more apparent when I do prints with less of some of the colours per layer.

I have considered investigating simulations - but I might just try making the algorithm monitor itself and auto adjust - at least when it repeats the same print.

Yes I can't parallel prime when printing between the heads on the same gantry - and I do need to sort out some of the details - like lifting and lowering.

I will hopefully stay at this phase for a few months to get the parallel printing working really well, - especially with a combination of Independent and IDEX -

The beg slinger approach I am not sure about - it might be a step backwards - and does bring space issues - so might consider extending the whole frame - at least in the Y direction.

Thinking about getting full coverage of the bed for all print heads.

My current plan for the next phase is occasionally moving bed in the Y direction - like this
https://youtu.be/479ecxP-sOE?t=194

I'm now wondering whether to go straight to phase 6 - the rotating bed approach might work better for the next phase.
It doesn't even need to be infinitely rotating - as that would require slip rings etc for the wiring.

Could for this phase just have it rotate 90, 180 , 270 degrees and back which the wiring should be able to handle - and I think that would mean the whole bed would be reachable by all 3 print heads.

Biggest challenge would be ideally carrying on printing while the rotation is happening, plus where to put the probe.

https://youtube.com/shorts/rL_nntNSEIA?si=CgKk240gnOwPgb8z

@dc42 when I had the X axis on T2 as 7 - which was C, when I tried to move on the X axis it would move only in 0.1mm steps - and it went in the wrong direction.

If I tried to move in bigger increments it would stop.

Changing over to W not a big issue - I think it makes more sense having rear gantry as UVW - than UVC

I still have a gap between B & D - but doesn't seem to be causing any issues so far.

First proper three headed print.

Some work required on alignment, purging and speed - but quite pleased with results so far.

Gantry 1 and 2 are running on different motions systems - and very slightly in parallel.
https://youtu.be/4TYAep9QcUE

Three colour build area a little bit restricted - so need to get the print heads a little bit smaller...

NB/ Flag on printer is 70% of this scale - so could print a slightly bigger one.

Changed over C gantry to be W as missing out a letter caused problems with tools definitions.
Also put V motors on correct Axis

Kinematics now simply the following

M669 K1 ; configure CoreXY kinematics
;     X:Y:Z: U: V: W:A:B:D
M669 V0:0:0: 1: 1:-1:0:0:0

Rough scale of Bondtech INDX toolhead overlaid over my current SOVOL toolhead.

Almost ready to start trying homing.

Decided to home the left extruder on the right extruder - mainly so that can use an identical design for two extruders.

So right extruder will need to be homed first on the gantry.

Also doubled up on end stops again - so single optical sensor left extruder for U axis (X) (homing on to other extruder) , D Zhopper, then another single optical sensor for right extruder - C axis (X) and A Zhopper.

Will probably have to rationalise the axis letters at some point.

Used an M4 bolt again for lead screw on left extruder as need to order some more lead screw nema 11s.

Updated my CAD for INDX a bit based on latest pictures, plus created a Voron Zero version.

@dwuk3d All wired up

Starting on wiring up the 1LC on the last extruder.

Horizontal placement of the board above the extruder is not that neat - but I guess the for left hand extruder the overlap isn't a big issue.

For the other two extruders I made up adaptors - to make the upgrade reversible - I think for this one I will take a different approach - and cut and replace the connectors on any cables that are long enough - as likely to have two spare extruders once I do the INDX upgrade even if I end up trying a Klipper version later.

It moves......

Next step - wire up 3rd extruder with 1LC tool board.

Then some more end stops and homing.

@o_lampe Good spot - I did think that might be an issue - particularly with multiple motion systems - but I haven't noticed any problems so far.

I wanted XY & B (the zHopper for X) to be on the same board - and there wasn't room on the 6HC for all 4 Z Axis.

I suppose I should really swap everything around and have the rear gantry on the 6HC as U V1 V2 C(u2) A(zhU) D(zHu2)
Then the front Gantry and Z on the 7 way Mini5+. X Y Z1 Z2 Z3 Z4 B(zhX)

The 6HC and Mini5+ have different size connectors for the motor drivers which adds to the complication.

@rkutun Don't forget that you can just put M669 in by itself to see the results of any individual or combinations of M669's.

I just tried a few tests and my previous suggestion doesn't seem to apply.

Also worth doing some G1 H2's - to make sure each individual (pre Kinematic altered) motor moves in the correct direction. - If it doesn't then you can use the S parameter on M569 to correct any direction issues - which could just be due to wiring.

My Dual Markforged seems to be working more or less ok - although I did get some strange behaviour yesterday where some of the axis would occasionally jump back when I moved previous axis - I haven't been able to recreate the issue today.

@rkutun I wonder if having the K1 in your M669 is doing something like overriding the axis parameters.

I wonder whether something like this might work.

M669 K0  ; - this would set X and Z to their defaults which is what you want

M669 Y1:-1:0:-1  ;  Then just override the Y

You might need the U parameter too in the 2nd line - but that might not be needed.

I've just set up a dual Markforged on one of the gantries on my printer - it's currently UV but I could change it to XY and see what your M669 does - I did mine in two lines.

IDEX on rear gantry moving OK.

I've wired up the two extra Y motors as the C Axis - by then used M669's to convert that over to be the V axis

To move the V axis - you need to move the two new motors, plus also the two existing U + V motors.

I thought it was going to be tricky - but seems to be working surprisingly well.

Will have to do something about independently homing the two new V axis motors - to make sure that the gantry is properly at 90 degrees.

But overall quite happy so far - just need to build the 3rd extruder now and add few end stops - before working on the homing macro's + alignment etc.

; Smart Drivers
M569 P0.0 S1 D2 ; driver 0.0 goes forwards (Z axis)
M569 P0.1 S1 D2 ; driver 0.1 goes forwards (Z axis)
M569 P0.2 S0 D2 ; driver 0.2 goes backwards (Z axis)
M569 P0.3 S1 D2 ; driver 0.3 goes forwards (X axis)
M569 P0.4 S0 D2 ; driver 0.4 goes backwards (Y axis)
M569 P1.3 S1 D2 ; driver 0.5 goes backwards (Z axis) - changed to 1.3 forwards
;M569 P1.0 S0 D3 V2000 ; driver 1.0 goes backwards (U axis)
;M569 P1.1 S0 D3 V2000 ; driver 1.1 goes backwards (V axis)
M569 P1.0 S0 D2; driver 1.0 goes backwards (U axis)
M569 P1.1 S0 D2 ; driver 1.1 goes backwards (V axis)
M569 P1.4 S0 D2 ; Z-hopper 2
M569 P0.5 S1 D2 ; Z-hopper 1
M569 P1.5 S0 D2 ; VH Axis Left
M569 P1.6 S1 D2 ; VH Axis Right

M569 P121.0 S0 D2 ; driver 121.0 goes backwards (extruder 0)
M569 P122.0 S0 D2 ; driver 122.0 goes backwards (extruder 1)

; Motor Idle Current Reduction
M906 I30 ; set motor current idle factor
M84 S30 ; set motor current idle timeout

; Axes
M584 X0.3 Y0.4 Z0.1:0.2:0.0:1.3 U1.0 V1.1 A1.4 B0.5 C1.5:1.6; set axis mapping
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 U16 V16 A16 B16 C16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation
M906 X800 Y800 Z800 U800 V800 A750 B150 C800 ; set axis driver currents
; A - 1.8 degree, 0.7mm pitch - 200*16/0.7 = 4571
; A - 1.8 degree, 1mm pitch - 200*16 = 3200
M92 X80 Y80 Z533.33 U80 V80 A3200 B629 C80  ; configure steps per mm
if exists(global.vMin) == false
    global vMin = 120
    global vMax = 340
    global yMin = -5
    global yMax = 210
M208 X-5:310 Y-5:210 Z0:300 U3:326 V120:334.7 A0:3 B0:3 C120:334.7; set minimum and maximum axis limits

M566 X540 Y540 Z100 U540 V540 A500 B300 C540 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X{350*60} Y{350*60} Z{25*60} U{350*60} V{350*60} A1000 B200 C{350*60} ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)

M201 X2000 Y2000 Z500 U2000 V2000 A1000 B20  C2000 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)


; Extruders
M584 E121.0:122.0 ; set extruder mapping
M350 E16:16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation
M906 E800:800 ; set extruder driver currents
M92 E492:492 ; configure steps per mm
M566 E120:120 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 E{30*60}:{30*60} ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 E250:250 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)

; Kinematics
;M669 K8 ; configure CoreXYUV kinematics
M669 K1 ; configure CoreXY kinematics
;     X:Y:Z:U: V:A:B:C
M669 V0:0:0:1:-1:0:0:1
M669 C0:0:0:0:01:0:0:0